CincyBillsFan

Gee, imagine finding some Bills homers on a Bills message board? Wow what will they think of next? The real story here is why anyone would get upset about what Bills homers are saying at TWO BILLS DRIVE. And for the record coaching & the O line are huge factors in a teams and QB's success. Probably bigger then the talent of the skill players. And while there is a debate about how much better, if at all, the Chiefs RB's & WR's were compared to the Bills in 2022 there is no debate that over Allen's career he has had inferior RB & WR talent then Mahomes has had in his career. And that FACT directly impacts career playoff success. Let's stick with LOST fumbles please. Allen's TO 's are a direct result of his aggressive play behind a very bad O line and without the benefit of a reliable running game.

You conveniently ignore the very real differences in the offensive lines of the two teams. And O line plays a huge factor in a QB's success and a teams playoff success And again what I've seen more of are posters not trying to diminish Mahomes but rather trying to explain why Allen hasn't had the same playoff success. Statistically Allen is holing his own even with inferior offensive talent supporting him. And while the 2022 separation in WR talent between the Bills and Chiefs is probably closer then it's been in years there still was a KC advantage. Or did you miss the Bills having to call back Brown & Beasley? And even you can't dispute that over their careers, Mahomes has enjoyed a much superior WR group then Allen. Again the goal is not to diminish Mahomes. The goal is to present the facts that diminish the DIFFERENCE between the skill level of Mahome & Allen that you guys think is much greater then it is.

You have been misrepresenting the argument that most Bills fans have been making here. I think it's fair to say that a lot of Bills fans agree that Mahomes deserved the MVP THIS SEASON over Allen. At least that's my opinion. What annoys many of us is the assertion by you and others that Mahomes is a much better QB then Allen. This is an entirely different position then saying he deserved the 2022 MVP over Allen. When posters like you jump on here and accuse us of "homerism" because we may not believe Mahomes is better then Allen it rankles because the argument over who wins the 2022 MVP is not the same argument as to who is the better QB. And it's not "making excuses" to point out the very different circumstances Allen & Mahomes came into the league under and the continued disparity between the two in offensive coaching & surrounding talent. Those are easily observable FACTS that are hard to dispute. The reality is that Mahomes has benefited mightily by playing for a franchise that values offense over defense. In contrast Allen has had to rise above a Bills organization that favors defense over offense. From what my eyes tell me Allen is every bit as good a QB as Mahomes. The things you cite to declare Mahomes superior have more to do with the team element of football then differences in individual skills between these two. The FACT is that Mahomes plays on the superior team that has embraced the best way to win in the playoffs - focus on the offense without reservations.

Allen has proven he can "spread the ball around" to. Check out how many different receivers he completes passes to in games over the last few years. And when the Chiefs traded Hill (they tried to keep him by all accounts) they went out and got two solid WR's to at least soften the loss. BOTH WR's that the Chiefs brought in were better then Crowder, the Bills big of season WR addition going into 2022. And let's not even start about the O line, a unit the Chiefs put big money into to best protect their franchise QB. And all this happened after Mahomes rookie contract was up. There is no need to let Diggs go. In fact it would be a huge mistake to do so. What is needed is a pivot by the Bills to stacking the offense with as much talent as the CAP allows. This includes finding a true #2 WR to compliment Diggs.

This is the most disquieting reason I can think for his leaving. And the evidence supports that the Bills aren't all that interested in amusing WR talent. With the exception of Diggs this organization has been Dollar Store shopping for WR's since day one of the Allen era.

The Ravens game? In addition to it being a bad weather day on the 1st series a decent Allen pass bounces off the hands of Knox for an INT and in the 3rd series Motor loses a fumble. Starting with the late 2nd quarter TD drive Allen was masterful in that game leading the Bills back from a 20 - 3 deficit. Maybe what defenses figured out was that our O line couldn't pass protect. Maybe the loss of Crowder & Kummrow hurt those "short and intermediate" solutions. Maybe the very real limitations of Davis & McKenzie limited our short passing game. Maybe defensive let downs at critical points in a game forced Allen to try to hit the big rather then small play. And Allen was more then willing to "play small ball" when the opportunity's arose. Calling Allen out for not showing "humility" and "accountability" is flat out wrong. If anything I saw a guy who tried to hard to deliver the expectations of a Super Bowl contending team that in some critical areas didn't have Super Bowl quality talent.

It's the difference between a defensive minded head coach and an offensive minded head coach. I like McD and he deserves a lot of credit for lifting the Bills out of football hell and making them relevant again. But this off season is a big test for him. Either he pivots on a dime and works to strengthen the O or he doubles down on the D. If he doubles down and focuses on the D then at minimum the Bills better make it to the AFC championship game next season or McD should be fired. If McD focuses on the offense we have to recognize that it might take a couple of years to fix the problem. In this scenario McD would have those couple of years to get it done.

I don't agree. A better description of the Vikings game was that Allen made key mistakes at the end when the Bills could have won a game. But that game was lost because of the D. The fact is that Allen played very well in leading the Bills to a 27 - 10 lead late in the 3rd quarter. And in spite of playing at home where a top ranked D is supposed to thrive the D promptly let the Vikes back in the game allowing Cook to go 82 yards off tackle to cut the lead to 27 - 17.

What sting? That we passed on Mahomes and ended up with Allen? First off that was 6 years ago. Second, had we passed on Mahomes to draft Rosen or Darnold instead of Allen then I might agree that the sting is still there. But the very next year we drafted an elite QB who is a generational talent in his own right. At that point all that mattered was what did KC & Buffalo do to develop their guy and surround him with the best offensive talent and coaching possible. Looking at it from that perspective it's clear that the Chiefs have done a lot more for Mahomes then the Bills did for Allen.

You might remember that the weather that night was very bad and limited both offenses. In spite of that Allen threw for over 200 yards and a TD. Importantly Allen did not have a TO and clearly outplayed Lamar Jackson.

Invest in the offense and surround Allen with the best talent possible. And by "invest" I mean: * To the extent the CAP allows we favor the offense in who we sign as FA's * The bulk of our draft picks for the next two seasons go to the offense. * We change our defensive tactics to recognize that we're an offensive team. I would copy KC where their philosophy is more compatible with having a high energy O with a big play QB at the helm. This means the LAST thing we want to do is allow teams to nickle & dime us to death on D. Long, time consuming scoring drives are worse then giving up the occasional big play score. After a big play score our O is right back on the field.

Yea Mahomes sure looked good behind an offensive line that protected him. It's possible to believe two things here: 1) Mahomes is a great QB who is elite. Allen is also a great QB who is elite. 2) Mahomes has benefited and his play has been taken to the next level because he has been surrounded with much better offensive talent & coaching then Allen has since day 1. I believe that if Mahomes & Allen switched teams they would both continue to be elite in comparison to other NFL QB's. The difference would be that Allen would likely be playing in his 2nd or 3rd Super Bowl while Mahomes was leading the Bills to the playoffs every year but struggling to get them over the top.

#1 Allen hasn't missed a game in 4 straight seasons including in 8 straight playoff games. To list an injury as the #1 criticism of Allen is just plain wrong and incomprehensible to any thinking football fan. #2 Allen takes the check down completion when it's worth taking. This is a stat that those that want to trash Allen throw out there. #3 Allen's INT numbers are in line with other aggressive, elite QB's (see Mahomes & Burrow). His fumbles are a direct result of his having to run the ball more then most QB's. On top of that Allen works behind one of the worst O lines in football. The strip sack is always a risk with this line and Allen trying to make plays downfield.

Maybe Hall was constantly whining about the need for more talent at WR and McD & Bean got tired of it? As an aside, last year we got rid of the O line coach because the O line struggled but the Bills didn't add much in the way of talent to that unit and they regressed this year. Now we have a struggling WR group and that coach leaves. Yea there is cause for concern. I get that coaches don't count against the cap but the issues at O line & WR are not coaching problems but talent issues. Seems like there's a pattern here of not putting resources into the offense but rather change the coaching to try to improve. I guess from McD & Bean's perspective this opens up the chance for a 1st round CB and 2nd round DT to be taken in the next draft as their issues at WR will be solved by a new coach.

The Bills are a defensive minded organization that spends all their time worrying about who the 4th CB will be or how do we best protect a nickle DB on the practice squad. They don't really pay attention or value critical offensive groups like the O line or WR room. How else do you lose a Hogkins and not fully grasp how the loss of Beasley's production would hurt the O in the middle of the field. If you don't believe me look at how the Bills addressed the D versus O lines. After using TWO first round picks (Groot & Oliver) and TWO 2nd round picks (Epi & Boogy) on the D line the previous couple of years the Bills went out and made a huge FA signing with Miller and then added FOUR more FA D linemen to the team! Compare this to the TWO O linemen signed. This is what Cowherd is talking about when he goes on and on about the limitations of franchises with defensive minded head coaches.

Hurts plays behind the best offensive line in football and is surrounded by multiple elite game breaking play makers. If Allen threw for 120 yards in a playoff game, 40 of which came on an incomplete pass the refs missed, certain Bills fans would be screaming for his head.

I can't be the only one thinking that Beasley's new enthusiasm for playing with the Bills is a result of his coming back, looking around the WR room and saying "damn, the cupboard is bare around here". To me Beasley thinking he can still contribute at a high level in Buffalo is even more damning about our lack of WR talent then the late season signing of him and Brown.

This is a great point. I remember a couple of examples of this: * One was in the Detroit game Cook stopped in the spot that a D Tackle was blocking Allen's vision. Allen expected him to keep moving into an open space and threw the ball to that spot. Only by pure luck was that pass NOT intercepted in what would have looked to people like a terrible Allen throw. * And remember the pass to Shakir that went for about 30 yards. It was a short pass where Shakir came back to the ball as Allen moved up in the pocket. The camera caught Allen making an expressive thumbs up sign to Shakir which led me to believe that they had talked in film/practice about this and Shakir actually ran the pattern correctly for the first time. There were others to but my guess is that it would be eye opening if we were a fly on the wall in the film room. I bet we would be stunned by how often Bills receivers ran the wrong pattern or didn't react properly as a play broke down in the 5 - 10 yard zone. Folks are quick to blame Allen for not taking the short passes but if guys are not getting where they're supposed to be a QB will back away from those throws real quickly. Yep. Allen clearly elevated Beasley & Brown's game extending their careers in the process. And don't forget how Allen elevated Sanders play last season. Just like he did with Foster in 2018.

There's two considerations here: 1) There is no doubt that KC has had better offensive talent over the last 3 seasons then Buffalo. Kelce + Hill were way better then Diggs + whoever. 2) In the last year the Chiefs O line was rated much higher than the Bills. And that alone is probably enough to explain any difference in production and outcomes between the two offenses. At WR and assuming Kelce cancels out Diggs the next three best players would be the Chiefs #1, #2 & #3 WR's. And IMO saying they were better then any grouping of Davis/McKenzie/Shakir/Beasley/Brown is not a stretch. The Chiefs #2 TE is equal to Knox In the RB group again the eye test says that the Chiefs have a clear advantage over the Bills. And part of this advantage was the willingness of Reid to put his faith in a 7th round rookie draft pick as his #1 guy. And the other KC RB seems to be a much more reliable pass catcher then either of the Bills starters.

IMO the most important thing Allen needed to do after this season was unwind and forget about football for a month or to. The only way he would be mentally ready to start the grind of preparing for next season in April would be to relax in Feb/March. I guess given that the objective evidence discounts the idea that Allen regressed this season or didn't take enough check down throws you guys are opting to use subjective evidence to go after the guy. Yea, what the hell is Allen thinking playing golf and trying to decompress after a brutal football season. Oh my just when I thought it couldn't get pettier. Allen is regressing because of his diet! For crying out loud are you actually blaming Popeye's & Chipotlie?

Interesting how the two teams did it very differently (one via FA the other via the draft) with one's QB on his rookie contract and the other earning big bucks. It's also interesting to note that the Bills have not been good at ether approach on the offensive side of the ball over the last two seasons. Allen & Diggs get an A+ Knox & Morse get a B The rest are at C or lower. And that is the problem.

More important to me is what the Bills do in Free Agency and the draft. The majority of their FA signings and draft picks have to be on the offensive side of the ball. A real effort to improve their O line and upgrade the WR group has to happen for me to stay excited about next season. Yep. Squandering a 16 - 0 lead late in the 3rd quarter against Houston and almost squandering a 24 - 10 lead against Indy early in the 4th quarter should be placed alongside the 13 seconds debacle & their no show in the snow against Cincy. And let's not forget the AFC Championship game in which the D let the Chiefs go up and down the field at will on the way to giving up 38 points.

If only it were as simple as this. IMO Allen did get it done if by "getting it done" means that even when surrounded by mostly below average talent on the offense Allen led the Bills after the BYE on an 8 game winning streak, a 3rd consecutive division title, a 13 - 3 record and a playoff win. I could care less whether Allen is considered better then or equal to or not as good as Mahomes. That's just mental ***** when the talent differential between KC and Buffalo on offense is so wide. I maintain that the objective evidence and the eye test indicate to me that the Bills would not have been as good as they were this year with either Mahomes or Burrow at QB.

All this talk of Allen needing to read the field better and take the check down opportunities and that Dorsey needs to scheme more short passes into the game plan are failing to see the forest for the trees. With the exception of Diggs and possibly Knox the rest of the Bills skill players are either below average (Motor, Davis, McKenzie) or still learning the game (Cook & Shakir). Add a well below average O-line to the mix and the Bills season long offensive production is nothing short of a miracle. And that miracle is due to Allen at QB and indicates to me that Dorsey is a better O coordinator then he's being credit for. So while it's fair to criticize Allen to do so without first calling out the elephant in the room - below average talent up and down the offenses line up - is deeply misleading. If what we've seen over the last 3 seasons is "peak" Allen then we have been blessed with a top 3 QB for the foreseeable future. But for that to translate into deep playoff runs and Super Bowl wins the Bills MUST upgrade the talent on the offensive side of the ball. Failure to do this will lead to further disappointing seasons. Throwing underneath the coverage to McKenzie and motor will not solve the problem here.

Allen leads the league in TO's because he fumbles the ball. Allen only had TWO more INT's then Mahomes & Burrow. TWO over 16 games! That's a rounding error. And Allen loses more fumbles then Mahome & Burrow because he runs the ball a lot more. Allen also has to deal with a bad O line where he's often under immediate pressure when he drops back to throw. Immediate pressure leads to fumbles as he navigates looking downfield to make a throw or is blown up from behind. And blaming Allen for the poor RAC (or YAC) based on ball placement is just plain wrong. This criticism was used back in 2019/20 as Allen was bursting onto the scene as a way to take shots at the guy. But anyone who has actually watched the Bills play knows that Allen has fine ball placement. The reality is that most of the Bills skill players are not very fast and are unable to make defenders miss. They also do a piss poor job of breaking tackles. My experience is that Allen will place a ball perfectly, the ball is caught and the Bills player immediately tackled for a 4 yard gain. Rinse and repeat over and over and over again. There is almost never any real separation and we all jump up and shout hallelujah on those rare instances when a guy actually outruns a defender or breaks their tackle.