CincyBillsFan

Even though I quoted your post my comments were more aimed at other posters who seem to rag on Allen endlessly.

It's more then an unpopular take it's a completely irrational take and ignores the more important stats. Which is exactly what I mean by some fans being overly critical of Allen on a Bills message board! You throw out his 14 INT's and compare them to his 12 INT's his rookie year as if this shows there's a problem. But you leave out the rest of the story: Rookie Allen threw for 2074 yards, 10 TD's and 12 INT's in 11 games. Elite 2022 Allen threw for 4238 yards, 35 TD's and 14 INT's in 16 games. So Allen threw 25 more TD passes and only 2 more INT's. And Allen was almost as productive running the ball in 2022 as he was running the ball as a rookie. Rookie Allen had 631 rushing yards, 8 TD and 2 lost fumbles Elite 2022 Allen had 762 rushing yards, 7 TD's and 5 lost fumbles.

Bean is playing a high stakes poker game this season. He's channeling 2019 in which he significant;y upgraded the Bills offensive talent by signing middle of the road guys (Brown & Beasley) or guys with injury issues (Morse). He also spent 3rd round picks on Knox & Motor that year and both of those guys impacted the offense as rookies. Flash forward to 2023 and Bean is doing the exact same thing. If it works as well as it did in 2019 the Bills are a legit threat to win the Super Bowl and Bean will be NFL executive of the year. If it blows up on him he may be hitting the road after the season. And given the CAP situation I'm not sure Bean had any other options. Of course this assumes that the bulk of the draft picks will be offensive guys. Look at it this way if just one of the two guards Bean brought in works out, if just one of the two WR's he brought in works out and Harris stays healthy and upgrades the RB position Bean's gamble will pay off. And honestly I don't think this is wishful thinking. Wishful thinking would be that Harris is productive and stays healthy and BOTH new WR's and BOTH new Guards play great.

I hate the INT's to and everyone could stand to benefit from playing better. But it seems to me that Allen gets more criticism on a Bills Board then Lamar Jackson gets on that same Bills board in that epic Jackson contract thread. So I did a little mental exercise. I compared Jackson & Allen's stats over the last 2 seasons: Allen in 33/33 games: 8690 passing yards, 71 passing TD's & 29 INT's Jackson in 24/34 games: 5124 passing yards, 33 passing TD's & 20 INT's Allen in 33/33 games: 1525 rushing yards, 13 rushing TD's & 8 lost fumbles Jackson in 24/34 games: 1531 rushing yards, 5 rushing TD's & 5 lost fumbles Allen in 33/33 games: 10,215 total yards, 84 total TD's & 37 total TO's Jackson in 24/34 games: 6655 total yards, 38 total TD's & 25 total TO's We don't remotely have a QB problem even with Allen's INT's and room for further improvement. It's clear what the Bills have to do to win a championship. Copy KC, Cincy & Philly and throw all available resources into the offense. The more talent the Bills surround Allen with the more Super Bowl runs this organization will have.

Real Bill's fans, no matter how painful it was on each of those losing SB Sunday's, relish and value the experience that those amazing SB teams brought us. I suspect that the Bills going to FOUR straight Super Bowls will never be repeated. And real Bill's fans are very grateful that Allen is our QB. That doesn't mean we don't think he can't get better, he can. But the default starting point with Allen is gratitude to the football gods that he landed in Buffalo. Because real Bills fans lived through a 2 decade QB purgatory so we know what bad quarterbacking looks like. Allen isn't just a breadth of fresh air he's a freaking hurricane. Your critiques of Allen are at best silly and at worst mean spirited. What I don't get is do you actually enjoy messing with another fan base? It just seems so small minded.

If Kirwin said that he's an idiot. Down here in Cincinnati it's more likley the Bengals will sell if the county doesn't agree to a major upgrade of the existing stadium. The Bengals lease expires in 2026 and this is a real concern down here as the lease is incredibly favorable to the Brown family and the mood in Hamilton County is that the new lease has to be more evenhanded.

You act like the "13 seconds" game against KC was a long time ago. It was one season ago. The idea that Allen "single handedly brought the Dolphins back into the game" is ludicrous. The Bills as a team rushed out to a big lead and then got sloppy, including Allen, letting the Dolphins back into the game. To say Allen would have been the Dolphins "mvp" if they had won the game is laughable. Sure Allen had 3 TO's but he also had 352 yards passing, 3 passing TD's had another passing TD dropped and a perfectly thrown 55 yard completion dropped. Was Jim Kelly an elite QB? I think the answer is obviously yes but in an AFC championship game at Rich Stadium he and the Bills O were held to no TD's & 3 points. And is Mahomes elite? Because in the SB loss to TB he was held to no TD's and 3 FG's. I could go on but you get it. Are you really a Bills fan? Sure criticizing Allen doesn't preclude someone from being a Bills fan but the degree to which you attack Allen is over the top and there's no way a real fan throws the stuff out that you do. And for the record what you're posting is not holding Allen accountable. It's nitpicking the guy to death. And while you do this you ignore the reality that without him at QB the Bills are not even a 500 team let alone a yearly division winner and playoff team.

I don't care what other people think, particularly other teams fans. I'm confident that any fan with a brain when looking at Allen's performance in the 2021 season playoffs are awe struck. And if I'm going to assign blame for the Bills exits from the playoffs the last 3seasons Allen would be dead last on any such list. The real question is why do you and other Bills "fans" insist that Allen is playing a big role in these season ending losses?

Allen keeps losing? Are you still trying to tie "13 seconds" to Allen?

Here's my take on this alt history scenario: The Bill's draft Mahomes in 2017. He plays behind Tyrod for a while but is then thrown to the wolves later that year. The Bills squeak into the playoffs because of the Bengals miracle in Baltimore but they lose the playoff game as their rookie QB, without much help on the offense, struggles in his first layoff game. In 2018 the Bills have to liquidate their offense and Mahomes struggles. Things get better over the next 4 years as DaBald and Bean add talent to the offense and Mahomes exhibits elite QBing skills. But the SB eludes the Bills as they lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs a couple of times. KC selects Josh Allen in 2018 with the idea that he will be developed behind Alex Smith. Smith goes down half way through the season and Allen comes in and shines in Reid's O. His rocket arm turns Kelsey & Hill into even deadlier weapons and his surprising running ability lead the Chiefs to the SB where they lose a close game to LA. In 2019 Allen breaks out and directs a largely unstoppable Chiefs O that powers KC to SB victory's in 3 of their next 4 seasons.

If the Bills can lift the offensive lines performance from bad (bottom 8 in the NFL) to average they will have as good a chance as any of the other leading contenders to win the Super Bowl.

In 2021 the Bills went 11 -6 with one of the losses being a blowout. In 2022 they went 13 - 3 with the 3 loses being by a total of 8 points. In both 2021 & 2022 the Bills lost in the Divisional round of the playoffs. Though they played better in the 2021 playoffs then they did in the 2022 playoffs. In 2021 the Bills enjoyed a relatively tame year from an injury & event standpoint. In comparison 2022 was a cluster frack. Seems to me the Bills have plateaued right on the edge of making a Super Bowl. I don't see them losing ground, yet.

So this is treading water the last three seasons? 2020: East Champ, 13 wins & AFC championship game 2021: East Champ, 11 wins & 13 seconds 2022: East Champ & 13 wins Sure I want MORE but the last 3 years have hardly been treading water. That was the 20 years before 2020. I'm now convinced that with some tweaks and a little luck the Bills are in the Super Bowl next season.

Playoff wins: Lamar 1 and Cousins 1. Games missed due to injury: Lamar 12 in 5 seasons & Cousins 0 in 11 seasons.

Allen isn't supposed to be elite, he is Elite. Allen does elevate his team. The Bills would be a 5 - 7 win team fighting to avoid last place in the AFC East without him. Allen has played very well in the playoffs. He is more then "good enough" to lead Buffalo to the Super Bowl. But all you have to do is take a look at the teams that have played in the last 3 SB's to see just how deficient Allen's supporting offensive cast is versus those teams. I'm sorry but you don't sound like a Bills fan to me. Sure there are legitimate criticisms of Allen's game and he could improve certain aspects of it. But your persistent passive/aggressive attacks on Allen, laying almost all the blame on the guy makes me wonder whether you really are a Bills fan.

The Chiefs two Offensive Tackles last season were better as a tandem then the Bills two tackles and it wasn't even close. The only reason the Chiefs didn't resign their guys was that they had gotten to expensive. In fact the Chiefs tried to resign Brown but there was no way they could afford to pay him what the Bengals did. Also, pressure up the middle is far worse then pressure around the end for QB's like Mahomes & Allen. The number of times in the Bengal's game that Allen was under duress almost immediately on the interior of the O line was ridiculous. That pressure had a huge impact on Allen's game.

Yes they were but Kelce, the best TE to ever play the game, was still on the field as was the Chiefs much superior offensive line. Mahomes also had a better RB duo in that game then Allen had. Oh and did you forget who designed the offensive game plan and called the plays for the Chiefs? I like Dorsey but he ain't no Andy Reid. Allen has had multiple spectacular games at QB and the Bills still haven't gotten to the Super Bowl with him. It's clear that there is only so far even an elite QB can take a team. Just ask Dan Marrino.

No that wasn't a stinker game it was an average game. The problem is that when Allen is average the Bills offense stinks.

I suspect that if it doesn't change then the Bills will continue to flounder in the later stages of the playoffs and the team will continue to waste the talents of an elite QB. The good news is that so far this off season there does seem to be a change in mindset at One Bills Drive. We need to keep our fingers crossed that it continues through FA and the draft.

My only quibble here is that Allen has not fallen short. Half his playoff games have been played at an elite level and he has yet to have a stinker game. For the last month all I've heard are the "experts" bemoaning why no one has signed Lamar Jackson to a 250 million guaranteed contract. Yet none of them talk about Jackson's dismal playoff performances. So it always pisses me off when I hear that Allen has "failed" in the playoffs.

It's more then Allen's arm strength it's also about his size which Mahomes isn't going to match. On the intangibles like "toughness" & "leadership" Allen matches Mahomes. And the main reason Allen hasn't taken the Bills as far as Mahomes & Burrow have taken their teams is that he has not had the talent on offense that they both do. The Bills poured a lot of their resources into the defense to mixed results. And every time I hear how Allen hasn't matched Mahomes & Burrow in the playoffs I think of "13 seconds" and how that would not have happened to either Mahomes or Burrow.

No but he does eat brightly colored mushrooms growing out in the woods!

I bet that if you set up a team with a great O line and loaded it with elite skill players and then polled GM's, Owners, Head Coaches & Offensive Coordinators who they would want to QB that team, Allen or Mahomes, Allen would win that poll.

I disagree. The biggest things that separate Allen & Mahomes over the last 3 years are: 1) Mahomes is coached by the best offensive mind in the NFL today and one of the best in the history of the league. 2) The Chiefs prioritized the offense over the defense while Buffalo has prioritized the defense over the offense. 3) Mahomes has enjoyed a much better O line then Allen has over the last 3 years. 4) Mahomes has enjoyed a much larger collection of very good & elite play makers then Allen has had over the last 3 years. BTW I've seen plenty of games were Allen patiently dissects a defense with the short passing game while they played two high safeties.

Every QB including Mahomes throws "boneheaded interceptions". So what's your point? No one is saying that Allen is beyond criticism though I'm not sure what criticizing one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL gets you. Heck, do you remember the rookie Elam baiting Mahomes to throw an end zone INT in that game? And yes that INT on the Bills first drive against the Jets was terrible. But then at the end of the game Allen threw a 70 yard pass that hit Davis in the chest that he dropped that likely would have earned the Bills a win. IMO most of Allen's mistakes are either directly or indirectly the result of bad O line play. It's not just that the Bills need better O line play it's that their O line is among the bottom 10 in the NFL. This makes the success of Allen and the Bills offense all the more remarkable.