CincyBillsFan

I suspect the Jets changed what they were doing and took away most of the short stuff.

All I'm talking about is TO's. That's a clear metric.

I agree. And yes Allen played terribly last night. But man look at the haters coming out of the wood work today. It's unreal. I like Allen because I think the guy gives his all, is a great fit for Buffalo, and he's the main reason this franchise has become relevant again after nearly 20 years wandering in the football wilderness. Allen is an elite QB talent who is far from perfect. Over the last 3 seasons we may be seeing the best that Allen can be. And that is good enough to win a Super Bowl as was clearly shown in 2021. But Allen can't win it by himself. Because football is a team game and even the elite QB's occasionally lay an egg and stink up the joint. I'm not sure Allen can get much better and trying to make him something he's not will squander the special talent that he is. I'll say what many have said previously: the Bills have to improve in other areas and that includes coaching. Not blaming McD but defensive minded head coaches are not working out in the current NFL.

My bad. I misread the post. I'm getting whacked from all sides today so it's easy to get confused. Thanks for admitting that. I was about to apologize to you. I thought I saw what I read.

No it's not fair. When you pair total fumbles with INT's you are trying to mislead people. An INT is a turnover a fumble may or may be a TO. Allen LOST one fumble that day and had 2 INT's which equals 3 TO's. Any other way to describe it is lying IMO. If someone wants to talk fumbles and argue that total fumbles are bad, do it and show us the data. But the way it was presented was meant to make people think Allen committed FIVE TO's.

I'm sure there are 20 teams that wouldn't hesitate to give the Bills their 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks for the next three years for Allen. We could then add a couple more D linemen and corner backs to the roster. You can never have to many of those guys. They were throwing all sorts of short passes early and Allen was 9/10 after his first 10 passes and all they had was 3 points to show for it. But hey I'm sure we could a lot of draft capital if we traded Allen now before all his TO's reduce his value! No, no, no! Allen is a TO machine didn't your read all about it here. Of course in the Bengals game, the one Allen supposedly lost because he refused to throw to all those wide open guys running short patterns, he had only ONE TO and that was a meaningless INT at the end of the game with the score 27 - 10. But hey Allen is a TO machine!

No he didn't. The game I was clearly referring to was the Saturday night match up that essentially won the division. In that game Allen was brilliant rescuing the Bills from a poor defensive performance that saw the Fish take a 29 - 21 4th quarter lead. Allen threw for 304 yards & 4 TD's and rushed for another 77 yards giving him 381 total yards and NO TO's. And for crying out loud I wish the Allen haters would quit lying by omission when it comes to fumbles. The playoff game you're referring to Allen lost 1 fumble. Don't say he had 2 INT's and 3 fumbles when he lost only ONE. He had 3 TO's that's the honest and correct way to describe it.

I disagree. IMO this is wrong headed thinking about what constitutes losing a game. You look at the play in the whole game and you add up the plusses & minuses. The expectation for Allen appears to be that if he plays less then great the loss is on him. It's like saying that a FG kicker that nails 5 FG's including 2 of over 50 yards lost the game because he missed a 40 yarder in OT that would have won the game. I agree that Allen's poor play was not compensated by his great play against the Jets in their first game last season. But against the Vikings Allen had 414 total yards, 1 TD & 3 TO's. Not a great game by any measure but more then good enough to win if the D doesn't let a guy run off tackle for an 82 yard TD with Buffalo up 27 - 10 and a D doesn't allow the Vikes to covert a 4th & 18. As for the Miami game - you have to be kidding. Allen was under center in those brutal conditions to take 99 snaps. He had 447 total yards and 2 TD's with only 1 TO. He played great against Miami even though he missed a TD throw late.

All tat chipping away led to 1 FG. The TD was a result of Allen pushing the ball downfield a bit (the strike to Davis comes to mind) and Allen doing freaky things outside the pocket for tyhe Diggs TD. Allen completed over 70% of his passes and hit 9 of his first 10 throws. The first 2 Allen INT's did no damage to the Bills. The first was on 3rd & long and was the equivalent of a 65 yard punt pinning the Jets at their own 4 yard line. The 2nd was a heave from midfield that gave the Jets the ball at their own 20. Now the 3rd INT and the fumble cost us the game. But IMO the Dorsey short passing game/take what the Jets gave us, was not working before Allen tossed his first INT. At least based on points scored.

I thought Allen was brilliant in the Division winning game against the Dolphins late last year. He basically was the reason they won that game. Allen had an overall good game against the Dolphins in the playoffs not great but solid if you go by the numbers. In the playoff loss to the Bengals Allen only turned the ball over once and that was a meaningless INT late n the 4th with the Bills down 27 - 10. In the 2nd half of last season Allen played poorly in only 2 games: against the Jets twice. In the Vikings game Allen was average as his TO's cancelled out his great play. But average isn't poor. Allen was solid against Cleveland, Detroit & Chicago & the home NE game and was outstanding at NE.

I didn't read through this thread (I don't want to get depressed) but last night was almost a carbon copy of the opening game loss to the Steelers in 2021: * In the Pitt game the Bills led 10 - 0 at half. Last night we led 13 - 3 at half. * In the 2nd half against Pitt the Bills scored only 2 FG's last night they had 1 FG in the 2nd half. * Allen and the offense looked out of sorts in both games especially in the 2nd half of both games. * While the score line would say the D played great in both games at critical moments in each game they couldn't get key stops and allowed to many 3rd & long conversions. And Big Ben was no more effective at that point in his career as Wilson was last night. * In both games the special teams had a major breakdown giving up a TD. The differences were that the Bills were home in the Pitt game, Allen didn't turn the ball over 4 times and the Jets have a better D and better offensive skill players then the Steelers had.

Wow the knives have really come out after Allen has a terrible game. For only the 2nd time in the last 3+ seasons (2020,2021,2022 & 2023) you can lay a loss directly on Allen. The other being the Jacksonville game. There isn't a QB in the NFL over the last 5 years who hasn't had games like this and that includes Mahomes & Burrow. I guess you have to ignore that the hype about the Jet's defense was real. They're either the best or 2nd best D in the NFL. Allen was very bad last night. But so was Burrow & Watson and Mahomes was average. Even the best will have nights like last night. Get back to me with the venom if after 5 games Allen plays like that in 3 of them and the Bills are 1 - 4. Right now this thread is a massive overreaction. While I agree in principal our O line isn't close to being good enough to do what the Eagles do.

Disagree. Their D looked very bad particularly against the run. I thought Fagio was going to deliver an upgrade?

Another Herbert stat fest - wow look at the 99.9 QB rating! And again a Chargers loss as Herbert shows almost no pocket awareness under pressure. Color me unimpressed with this guy.

Knowing that the opposing QB/OC are watching tape on you forces a defensive coordinator to watch their own tape looking for patterns that their opponents might see and exploit. Once they find their own defenses pattern a D coordinator can design their defense to trick a QB into thinking they're seeing the same pattern they saw on tape. Then slip a LB into the pass route.

A measured response regardless of the outcome. As Bills fans we can never forget how the 2003 season started: First a 31 - 0 win over NE then the Bills went on the road and beat Jax 38 - 17. It looked like a Super Bowl year for the Bills and a bad season for NE. In the end the Bills went 6 - 10 and NE won a SB.

I agree. I thought Mahomes was a bit off but overall the loss was on his receivers who dropped to many balls.

What the hell is wrong with these refs? Isn't there someone in NYC watching this that can alert these clowns that a Tackle is improperly lining up and moving before the snap on almost EVERY FREAKING PLAY?

Judas Priest you just entered the Twilight Zone. The play after the Chiefs went up by 2 scores in the 3rd quarter Allen, ignoring the easier and safer 15 yard completion to Knox, throws a 75 yard TD pass to Davis to make it a came and rattle the Chiefs. And somehow it's Allen fault that the Chiefs only punted twice? WTH?

If you think Allen has been the cause of our lack of Super Bowls the last couple of years I don't know what to say. For you to say this you have to be deliberately ignoring Allen's 2021 playoff run. In back to back playoff games against NE & KC Allen gave the best QB performance in the playoffs that I have ever scene. Every thing you sited he exhibited in excess during that 2021 playoff run. I have said it before and I'll repeat it again: Allen is not the one preventing the Bills from winning Super Bowls. If over the next 3 seasons Allen plays like he has played the last 3 seasons and the Bills fix the O line, add another play maker and get their D to perform better in the playoffs the Bills will be hoisting the Lombardi Trophy.

Why does it bother you? Sure it can never be definitely proven but you can make a solid argument that over his career no QB has worked harder at his craft then Allen. In fact why on earth are you bothered that on a Bills message board here are homers who view the Bills through an optimistic lens? I'll visit Finnheavan, Gang Green, Jungle Noise (Bengals) and that NE board and it doesn't surprise me in the least that there are homers on those boards.

Classic trolling. Throw out something that no one is actually saying and then run with it. The comments I'm seeing about Allen outworking other QB's are related to his career where he was faced with the challenge of improving his mechanics. That he did so in spite of much of the national sports media claiming that he could not is a testament to his hard work in the off season. Palmer reinforced this in multiple interviews and we all saw the product of Allen's hard work on the field.

This is a mischaracterization of what Allen said. As Beck has repeatedly shown us Allen did not say that he didn't hit the gym or lift in the off season. He told us what he did and didn't do and the time frame that was involved.

You consider that a reasonable take? Hmmmmmmmm

Yea he looked real pudgy in that Miami heat furnace game where half the Bills were being dragged off the field with heat exhaustion while Allen took 99 snaps ad never left the field once. You people are nuts.