CincyBillsFan

Again, who is saying Allen shouldn't be criticized? I sure as hell am not. But there is a point where the criticism is spiteful and over the top and that point is being seen in dozens of posts on a whole bunch of threads. Hell, even on a thread asking folks to "Stop Blaming Josh Allen" a whole bunch of people feel compelled to throw crap at Allen. Isn't there enough threads to meet that need?

Why are you quoting me? I've repeatedly said Allen played terribly and lost the game. But my point was that it's one freaking game and that the piling on here on 2BD and everywhere else is over the top and way to harsh. So are you saying that the criticism of Allen in 2BD has only been "slightly negative"? Or that what we're seeing on 2BD is just "slight criticism"? Judas Priest you said exactly what I've been saying yet you call me out on it?

They're surprisingly sparse on the details to your question given the intensity of their criticism of Allen. My guess is that they know deep down that Allen is more then likely to rebound big time and and go on a run of great games. The sad thing is if he does some of these posters are going to be disappointed.

I believe you would. At least you're backing up your criticism of Allen with the only logical move if your criticism is valid.

I agree. Now I'm with those on 2BD who believe this is not in the cards because the Bills are not stupid and they highly value Allen. Unless something really strange or dumb happens Allen is here for the vast majority of his career. I'm just challenging those that are trashing Allen and painting the guy in such a bleak light to have the courage of their convictions. If I believed the things that some of these posters are saying then I would advocate trading Allen while his value is off the charts. Because GOING BY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, Allen is the next Jamison Winston or Carson Wentz.

I wasn't shocked. Pissed off was a better description for me. The fact is that the Bills were on the road playing one of the best D's in football. Allen picked a bad night to have a brain fart. But it was one game and reminded me so much of the Pitt opening game loss in 2021. I will be shocked if after this season is over the Bills miss the playoffs and half of Allen's games look like Monday night. At that point we'll have Jamison Winston as our QB. But I think the exact opposite will happen and Allen will have another 40 plus TD and 4,500 plus total yardage season.

What the hell are you talking about? Am I missing something here? Do you or don't you think the criticism of Allen has been over the top and excessive? Do you or don't you think benching Allen when he screws up for a series is a terrible idea? Sorry I'm not willing to join the lynch Allen crowd. It was one freaking game. If it continues we're screwed and there's nothing we can do about it. But my guess is that we might see, at most 1 or 2 more games like this while most of Allen's games this season will be prime examples of elite QB play. Just like we've seen over the last THREE SEASONS.

Yanking Allen after a bad play sitting hm for a series then putting him in again and then repeating when necessary would pretty much ruin any QB. In fact Belicheck tried exactly that last season and how did that go? And I didn't say it would necessarily ruin Allen as a QB. I said it would ruin him as a QB IN BUFFALO. Doing what you're suggesting would sour Allen on the Bills and rightfully so. At that point why not trade him for all you can get. Let him go somewhere else and win a Super Bowl or two. Thankfully the Bills management & coaches are not insane and would not do something like this.

BTW what's the end game of all the over the top blame being laid on Allen? I get that for the sports media it's clicks, eye balls and controversy. They'll move on in a heart beat and go after the next high profile guy that screws up. But what's the end game for Bills fans in doing this? You don't think Allen isn't fully aware of his shortcomings? How is bashing Allen beyond noting that he had a terrible game accomplish anything? Some Bills "fans" are going after Allen for a lot more then the fact he had a bad game. Is this confirmation of draft night 2018 when some of you said Allen sucked and we blew it by not drafting Rosen? Is this a measure of vindication for your bad take back then? If Allen's struggles Monday night are a sign of a deeper and persistent problem then we're screwed. Welcome to 10 more years of football purgatory. And the way some of you go after Allen you have to believe just that or why post what you do. Okay, fine. I happen to disagree with you but at least have the courage of your convictions. If the things you claim about Allen are true then you should be advocating that the Bills look to trade him. Currently Allen's value is very high, dozens of teams would happily give up their next three years of 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round picks to get him. But all I see is constant carping about a guy whose BODY OF WORK is fantastic placing him as the 2nd best QB to ever wear a Bills uniform. And the best QB to wear a Bills uniform, one Jim Kelly, had games every bit as bad as Allen did Monday night during the SB years. I have no problem with those that criticize Allen after a bad game. But what we're seeing on 2BD is insane.

This is terrible advice. No one is saying Allen shouldn't be criticized for Monday night's performance but the level of criticism is off the carts. As for making him sit for a series, I can't think of a worst thing you could do to a starting QB in the NFL. You want to ruin Allen in Buffalo do exactly as you suggest.

Fine. But there is also keeping things in perspective. The shrill and hysteric response by much of the national media and a lot of Bills fans goes way beyond the simple observation that Allen played poorly and we lost the game as a result.

I disagree. The coaches are forcing Allen to think rather then intuitively react in these situations. Allen is Farve not Brees.

I'll wait until half the season before making a final opinion here. But it will be an interesting experiment to see if Payton can "fix" Wilson.

Given Allen's history and willingness, in fact eagerness to run in similar circumstances in past games convinces me that his failure to take off here was a direct result of the coaches efforts to get him to cut back on his runs. Think about what Sean Payton said to Russel Wilson about running the ball MORE. My guess is if Payton were coach of the Bills he would recognize that the teams best chance to win a Super Bowl was letting Allen be Allen.

I think Kubiak was actually measured in his analysis. He didn't pull any punches but at the same time he didn't ignore the fact that for stretches of this game Allen played very well. And yes Allen made several of his patented elite throws, scrambles and runs. One thing that stood out to me was Allen's decision not to run for the 1st down on the play he launched the deep INT. IMO this is a problem of coaching. In their zeal to cut down on Allen's runs the Bill's brain trust risks compromising one of Allen's great gifts. I want Allen taking that run EVERY time. The coaches need to reinforce that in that situation Allen should tuck the ball and head down the sideline.

I get it and you're right to a point. I don't think any of us are arguing that Allen didn't stink up the place on Monday night. He did. But it was ONE GAME. The national sports media can get back to me after the season and playoffs. And guess what, Allen will probably have another game or two almost as bad as the Jets game. And I find it funny that the national media after one bad game is united in crucifying Allen while they were not nearly as critical of Russell Wilson after he stunk up an entire season. Again there always seems to be an extra dollop of venom directed at Allen from some quarters of the media. As for the comparison to Carson Wentz. Wentz had a spectacular 12 game run. Allen's run, including playoffs, was over the previous 3 full seasons. That's 56 games. Calling Allen "Wentz" is lazy on the part of the media. But then what else do you expect from the Skip Bayless & Nick Wright's of the world.

I don't agree with everything here but a lot of it seems reasonable to me. It is an offensive league and teams run by defensive minded coaches and GM's are falling behind. To a degree Buffalo has been the exception to the rule but it's hard not to think that this is due almost entirely to Allen. Because when Allen is on it doesn't matter who is coaching. But when he's off or just average, which will happen at times, the Bills struggle. I think you see something similar in LA where a defensive minded regime has held the Chargers back. Herbert like Allen is an elite franchise QB. I hate to admit it but the Dolphins have an exceptional offensive minded coach. And their franchise has an offensive minded GM. The difference between Tua with McDaniel and the last guy is night & day. This is why I'm fascinated to see how the season goes for Russell Wilson & the Broncos with Payton as coach. If Wilson returns to form and he had an ok start against the Raiders and Denver has a potent offense then you almost have confirmation that in today's NFL you must have an offensive minded head coach & GM.

Why don't we admit that this is the real issue here. Bill's fans are way to sensitive about what the media, particularly the national sports media, says about us. And yes they have been brutal about all things Allen. You can see the venom drip down their chins as they rip Allen apart. Funny how Allen is getting ten times the grief from the sports media then Burrow or Jones are getting. Joe threw 31 passes for 82 yards and his team lost 24 - 3. And Danial Jones was 15/28 for 104 yards & 2 INT's including a pick 6 in losing 40 - 0! And no TD's for either Burrow or Jones. But 95% of the national media's bile is reserved for Allen. I find that a bit strange and you people should to.

Let's give Allen a little credit for pulling his own self out of the sand and executing on that 52 yard (10 yard penalty to overcome) drive.

And you think that will play out over the whole season? Judas Priest Allen had a terrible game with the emphasis on GAME. It happens to every QB be they elite, great, good, fair or bad. The only difference is the frequency of sucking. Allen has demonstrated over 3 FULL seasons and the corresponding 7 playoff games (56 total games) that he rarely sucks and plays at an elite or great level most of the time.

For what it's worth, Aikman who is no big fan of Allen said that Davis did him no favors by not faking hard that he might take an inside path. This allowed the guy who intercepted the ball to run hard to the spot Allen was throwing it. I also thought that the Bills didn't produce a lot of the YAC needed to make the short passing game work. Kincaid had some nice YAC as did Diggs but Harty had very little YAC and he was targeted multiple passes. IMO going forward more short passes to Kincaid and fewer to Harty.

Actually early on Allen completed 9 of his first 10 passes. At one pint he was 17/21 passing with 1 INT & 1 TD. So if this is how you play right from the start with no practice or film work then sign me up. Something changed in the 3rd quarter. Did the Jet's adjust and start taking advantage of something? Did Allen get "bored" and start pressing? And let's be clear here. The first 2 INT's were not a big deal. The first one was thrown on 3rd and long and pinned the Jet's back on their 4 yard line with Wilson at QB. That was the equivalent of a 65 yard punt with no return. That the D let the Jets and Wilson out of that hole is as concerning to me as some of the Allen misfires. The 2nd Allen INT gave the Jets the ball at their own 20. Neither of these cost the Bills points or handed the Jets a short field. My guess is that Allen was trying to stick a fork in the Jets ad kill them off with the big play. Now the last 2 Allen TO's are what lost us the game. These happened late in the 3rd quarter & in the 4th quarter. This is what they should focus on.

Exactly so you embrace what Allen is: a HOF level elite talent that plays the game like Favre. You design your offense & offensive philosophy to best exploit Allen's style of play and you surround Allen with the kind of players that thrive in his Helter Skelter world. Or you try to take the edge off Allen and get him to not throw those 50 yard bombs into double coverage or try to run over safeties and maybe if you're lucky he'll turn into a big Drew Breeze or a Kirk Cousins! More likely though you'll ruin what Makes Allen great and we'll see more and more games like last night. And if Allen's play is incompatible with how defensive minded GM's and head coaches like McD & Bean need in their franchise QB then we can trade Allen now and get multiple 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks over multiple years from 15 - 20 NFL teams. Imagine how many stud D linemen & corner backs we could accumulate. And I'm not being facetious on trading Allen ( well maybe a little) but all I'm seeing are people slamming Allen for playing like he does. Sure maybe lightening can strike and he can turn into Brady or Breeze. I just think that is a long shot with the downside risk of ruining Allen. So IMO you choose the 1st option and go all in on Allen being Allen. I really believe there is at least one Super Bowl in our future if we do. Like the one we should have gotten in 2021. Mahomes says hi. Can we at least give the Jet's D some credit here. They may have been boasting about being the 85 Bears but their defense is one of the best in the NFL. They might have 2 of the top 5 corner backs in the league, superior safety's & LB's and a fierce defensive line.

As Al Davis said: JUST WIN BABY! An NFL season is a marathon. All I want to see is a W. Don't care if they look like a Super Bowl team and blow the Raiders out or look crappy and barely win. It simply doesn't matter at this point in the season. The ONLY thing that matters is W/L. You want to have a good enough record so you can win your division and be a 1 or 2 seed going into the playoffs if you catch fire at the end of the season. Catching fire in the 2nd half of the season and roaring through the playoffs is how most teams win SB's. This is what makes 2021 & 13 seconds so frustrating. The Bills and particularly Allen did everything you're supposed to do to win a SB that year only to be let down by inexplicably bad coaching decisions at the end.

I believe precedent is important in almost every aspect of life. And I believe that it's most important in sports. It's rare you see something that hasn't happened before. Allen had a really bad day at the office Monday night particularly in the 2nd half. I would be concerned if we had never seen HOF level, elite QB's S##t the bed in week one games before. But guess what, we have and I didn't have to look to far to find a couple of examples. In fact I got them off the top of my head: Living in Cincy you can't not be aware of all things Joe Cool and here are his last two season openers: 2022: 33 of 53 for 338 yards with 2 TD's & 4 INT's including a pick 6 & 1 lost fumble. 5 total TO's in an OT loss. 2023: 14 of 31 for 82 yards with no TD's or TO's. No TO 's is good but 82 yards on 31 attempts! Oh and a 24 - 3 blowout loss. How about the GOAT, Tom Brady? I'm sure Bills fans remember this opening day game: 14 of 28 for 123 yards(!) with no TD's and 4 INT's including a pick 6 in a 31 - 0 blowout loss to the Bills. The Pats went on to win the Super Bowl and the Bills had a 6 - 10 record. Taking a quick look at Jim Kelly he played pretty well in week one but he and the Bills laid a big egg in a week 2 game against division rival Miami in 1990: 14 of 23 for 140 yards with no TD's & 1 INT & 1 lost fumble. The Bills lost that game 30 - 7 and trailed 30 - 0 going into the 4th. So sure if Allen keeps playing crappy like he did against the Jets, which boast a superb defense, then we might as well get used to having our Sunday's back and enjoying the Fall foliage. But I suspect people are way overreacting to this game and Allen & the Bills will be just fine going forward.