CincyBillsFan

IMO what is holding Allen back from fully reaching his potential is roster construction not coaching. And roster construction is primarily Beane. A conscious decision was made in 2020 to direct the lions share of the teams draft capitol and free agent signings to the defense. Diggs in 2020 is the last and only big free agent signing on Offense. There was some move away from this gong into this season with draft picks and an uptick in free agent signings on offense. The bottom line is that whether or not Bean's decision was right or wrong will play out over the next couple of seasons. I believe Bean was wrong where he placed his resources but I hope I am proven wrong in this belief.

Agree. Down here in Cincinnati they had Burrow target Chase even more to the exclusion of the other receivers and the Bengal's offense has finally shown some life. And remember the Rams 2021 Super Bowl champs and how they targeted Cooper Kupp. The issue I'm seeing with Harty is that he was given plenty of targets through the first couple of weeks and I never saw him break a tackle or juke a guy out. He went down easily on first contact. It wasn't until the Miami game that he made that catch and eluded the tackler for the 1st down. As for Shakir, he's dropped a couple of passes that leave me and I;m sure Allen/Dorsey frustrated. One was that incredible pass at the end of the 1st half against Miami and another was against Washington when Allen could have ran for 15 yards and a 1st down but instead threw it to Shakir who flat out dropped it. So our best hope remains Kincaid & Shakir. They need to involve Kincaid more down field and if Shakir can stop the drops he could really boost the Bills downfield passing game. BTW, Davis is fine in that he is making big catches downfield and he is catching TD passes. We're just going to have to live with the occasional drop and the fact that he doesn't execute certain patterns well.

To be fair the problem is consistency not that we seldom make it look easy. Go back through the last three and a half seasons and there are plenty of games where the Bills offense went up and down the field. Also, we end up in 3rd and long not so much because of taking to many "low percentage chances" on 1st & 2nd down. My observations are that we lose yards on way to many 1st & 2nd down run plays and that penalties also put us into 3rd and long a lot. It seems like among the playoff contending teams the Bills have a lot of run plays that lose yardage.

Yep. Teams like Carolina, Denver, Giants, Bears and maybe Atlanta, Indy & the Vikings are the teams I think might be willing to do a deal.

This is an excellent point and very true.

Agree 100%. There is NO comparison between the playoff success of McD versus Lewis. As an aside my answer to the threads question is NO. What becomes dicey IMO is if Allen remains healthy and the Bills miss the playoffs then a conversation will need to be had.

Two observations: 1) It was mentioned that the Giants put a NT directly on Morse which was unusual for them. I suspect that DaBoll knows that the undersized Morse calls some of the O line plays and struggles when he's being pounded on every play. 2) Allen's 8/18 has to be taken in context. First the two "trips" were strange. I can watch multiple games and see that happen only once. It was odd it happened twice in one quarter. There is evidence that Allen experienced a shoulder "stinger" early in the 2nd quarter that impacted his throws. Collinsworth mentioned it a couple of times and the 8/18 could be broken down to 6/10 BEFORE the injury (with two fall down incompletions & a dropped pass) and 2/8 after.

Allen would assume responsibility for the Russia/Ukraine war. To his credit he never throws a teammate or coach under the bus. And I hope this never changes. When have any of us said Allen was perfect? That's a scarecrow you build & throw out to discredit those of us fed up with the undeserved shots certain posters take at Allen. I don't think it's trashing players or coaches to ask the question of whether we've assembled the talent needed to fully exploit having a top 3 QB. I live in Cincinnati and have observed first hand how that organization has built an offense around Burrow. And as an NFL fan I can see how the Eagles & Chiefs built offensive machines around their good (Hurts) and elite (Mahomes) QB's. Hell, SF built their offense first in the hopes a QB would show up.

I haven't read this whole thread yet so maybe this has already been pointed out but Dorsey and Allen deserve a huge amount of credit for cleaning things up in the red zone. This was a big problem from last season and they're now one of if not the best red zone team. For sure they're best passing red zone team. After last season this turnaround is no small thing.

It will help your sanity to appreciate that the vast majority of the fan base thinks Allen is doing just fine and he is the best thing to happen to the Bills since the Pegula's bought the team and kept them from being moved. What gets hard to bear is the small minority of nasty posters on 2BD who are trolling Allen and the fans. I'm just thankful that 2BD has that wonderful puke emoji which is so useful in recognizing the posts of these weirdos. And yes trashing Allen in the way that they do on a Bills message board is weird and is trolling. They claim it's constructive criticism but come on only a fool would see it as that. For constructive criticism of Allen from real Bills fans you just need to check out Gunner, Shaw & Beck, among others. Their posts are fair and evidence based.

Which is exactly what I've been saying. But it's also fair to point out that Allen seems to get a lot less help with his off target throws from his skill players not named Diggs then the other elite QB's get.

Can you enlighten us on who has been consistent this season?

We have very high expectations of Allen but you guys seem to have insanely high expectations. Again when I watch the other elite QB's in action they seem to benefit far more often from great catches and extraordinary runs after the catch then Allen does. The other elite QB's will miss on throws all the time yet be "rescued" by superb catches by their skill players. Looking at the Knox drop I have a hard time thinking that would have been a superb catch. It was a tough catch but well within the NFL norm. I've noticed that several of you posters use the same "cult" description when any Bills fans defend Allen and demand more out of our O line and skill players not named Diggs. But defending Allen from your cheap shots is actually easy when you can point to his stats and repeated wow plays in game after game.

Most people have acknowledged that Allen could have made a better throw. But as you say he can't be expected to make great throws every time. If Knox were catching 100 passes per season and was making numerous great catches you would have a point. But while Knox is solid this was the kind of slightly off target throw that he must catch to give him the benefit of doubt that you think he deserves.

Yep leading by example. The fact was that in the moment Brown was very vulnerable and at risk of getting stomped by the 2 Giants. Allen had to step in to protect a teammate.

I disagree with almost everything you and Over 29 Years a Fan say on 2BD. Allen is the Bills best player. Period, end of sentence. He is the primary reason we've been sniffing at the Super Bowl for the last 4 seasons. While Allen could improve his decision making as a natural consequence of his continuing to gain experience it's unreasonable AND unrealistic to expect him to make a big jump going forward. By any objective measure Allen is a top 5 (I think top 3) QB in the NFL. So if you really believe that Allen is a BIG part of the problem here and that his improvement is the most likley and easiest way to improve the offense then you must be in favor of parting ways with him because Allen is not getting substantially better. So come out and make the (incredibly stupid) argument for moving beyond Allen. I'm sure there are at least 27 teams that would give up whatever they had to get Allen. We should be able to get a bonanza of draft picks for him. Put up or shut up. This constant beating on Allen is wrong and unhinged.

So you're blaming Allen for the Jags loss? Incredible. For the record, if we're able to add one more QUALITY play maker and fix the O line so that it's at least AVERAGE then all Allen has to do is exactly what he's been doing for the Bills to win a Super Bowl. Imagine this team the last few seasons without Allen.

Interesting thread. I just finished reading this take by Cowherd and came to 2BD: https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/news-colin-cowherd-pins-blame-sean-mcdermott-wasting-josh-allen-s-prime-buffalo

I've heard that playing the week directly after the London game has also had issues for teams. It's why the NFL apparently offers all teams playing in London a bye he next week.

I screamed at my TV so loudly they must have heard me.

Yes there were. In fact there was a lot more then a lot of fans want to acknowledge. Here's a couple: In 1991, the Bills best offense of the Super Bowl years lost at NE 16 - 13. The Bills were 10 - 1 and the Pats 3 - 8 when that game was played. Kelly threw 4 INT's. In 1992, the 5 - 2 Bills hosted the 0 - 7 Pats at Rich Stadium. At halftime the Bills were trailing 7 - 0 and Kelly had thrown 2 INT's. The fans booed the Bills off the field. I know this because I was at the game. The Bills came back and won it 16 - 7. In 1988, the 11 -2 Bills lost to the 3 - 10 TB Bucs at Tampa 10 - 5. The Bills trailed 10 - 2 late in the 4th quarter. A there are a lot more. For those that appreciate the history of the Bills I highly recommend Sal Maiorana's Relentless. This book as every box score from 1960 through the 1993 season. I'm just reacting to your comment which tells me you don't watch much football. Sure, I wouldn't call it a "good throw" but it wasn't a "crap throw" either I would call it GOOD ENOUGH. BTW, do you expect Allen to perfectly place the ball on every throw? When I watch KC I see a lot of over thrown & under thrown Mahomes throws being caught regularly. Kelsy alone has 3 - 4 per game.

What blueprint? Seriously in the NFL blueprints last about 1 game, maybe 2. Next week or the week after NE & Tampa will roll out the "blueprint" and Allen will be hot and smoke them. BTW, how did the blueprint work for the Giants on the Bills back to back TD drives in the 2nd half? They were what 180 yards, over 16 minutes TOP and put the Bills in the lead late? IMO it's to ate to fire Dorsey and as others have pointed out the results don't warrant him being fired. Shoudl the 49's bench Purdy or the Eagles bench Hurts after their terrible games yesterday? What about those offensive coordinators? If AFTER the season the offense struggles and production drops way down then you part ways with Dorsey. But right now when we're 4 - 2 and right in the mix of things? No way.

Who knows? The NFL has been crazy this year. I could see the Bills winning both games by several TD's each or losing one of those games and squeaking by in the other. Three weeks ago if you had said that the Bills would beat Miami by 28 points and barely scrape by the Giants folks would have thought you to be nuts. Actually that throw looked a lot like a lot of passes that I've seen caught in that same situation. And if you watched more football you would agree.

Based on the picture I saw Mahomes doesn't make that throw time after time. He was running hard to his left and his receivers were not helping out by coming back to the ball. Mahomes would have chucked that ball into the cheap seats.

Frankly I have no patience for these clowns who spout off about that. I just watched a lot of football this weekend and saw that catch and tougher ones being made all over the place. Now if it was the 1st quarter we could complain that Allen's throw didn't enable Knox to score because it was under thrown. But on that play you make the catch and the game is over. And to be fair to Knox his injury probably made that a much more difficult catch then it should have been.