CincyBillsFan

You said he wasn't "patient" I showed you evidence that in the last two games he was plenty patient. As far as comparing Allen directly to Mahomes over the last 5 plus seasons how can I when Mahomes has enjoyed significantly better offensive coaching; significantly better weapons and a significantly better O line? Apples and oranges.

I wonder the same about you? Did you watch the drives against the Giants and Pats where Allen was extremely patient? Allen took what the D gave him and also made a couple of plays that only he or Mahomes could make. Against the Giants the TD drives were: 89 yards in 17 plays & 75 yards in 12 plays. Against the Pats: FG was 57 yards in 13 plays; the missed FG was 51 yards in 12 plays; the 1st TD was 81 yards in 10 plays and the TO on downs with the dropped pass was 42 yards on 13 plays, Seems to me the last two games the problem was not Allen's lack of patience. Maybe he was being to patient? Yea because using one 1st round pick to draft either Darnold (assuming he moved down if the Jets picked Allen) or Rosen would have been the height of football wisdom.

You don't have to be wearing "Bills glasses" to see that the way the bills structured their team after Allen was drafted would not have worked any better with Mahomes. In fact the bad O line and lack of multiple elite play makers on the Bills from 2018 - 2022 might have meant that Mahomes would have struggled on the Bills. It was Allen's physical gifts that allowed him to survive and often thrive with an inferior O line. And for the record I'm not saying Mahomes would not have thrived on the Bills and been considered elite. He would have been successful in the same way Allen has just minus the Super Bowl wins like Allen. To say Allen doesn't have the same drive as Mahomes is a crappy cheap shot. Allen has had to overcome a lot more to reach an elite status then Mahomes has had to.

What, you want great play both half's all the time? Do you watch NFL football? Allen was meh in the first half and exceptional in the 2nd half. The Bills got a 3 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game and the D let the Pats go 75 yards for the winning TD. And that was that.

The Bills scored TD's on 3 possessions in the 2nd half only missing scoring a 4th TD on their fourth possession because of a dropped 4th down pass. So Allen wasn't exactly "meh" in the 2nd half.

This is has been especially true the last 3 seasons. It not only robs the offense of possessions it leaves them on the sideline getting antsy and often flips the field against Buffalo putting the Bills inside there own 20. We saw that happen today on a couple of drives.

So you believe that had the Bills drafted Mahomes it would have turned out any differently then how it did with Allen? I don't and I'm curious as to why you think it would have. I am convinced that had Buffalo drafted Mahomes in 2017 then KC picked Allen in 2018 the Chiefs would still have those 2 SB wins but with Allen at QB and the Bills with Mahomes would have looked a lot like they have under Allen.

I was so pissed off I didn't stay for the Pats extra point!

I turned the TV off after the Pats scored that last TD. I was just talking to a friend from Buffalo who said that Allen threw a deep pass that Diggs should have caught putting the Bills in FG position. Is this right?

I doubt he minds having the game on his shoulder I think he welcomes it. But the Bills have not structured an offense to take advantage of what Allen does best. Frankly they have been criminally negligent in this regard. Look at that O line and the skill players not named Diggs. Now check out the Eagles, 49's, Dolphins, Bengals & Chiefs.

Allen played great in the 2nd half. They scored 3 TD's and a 2 pt conversion on four possessions and only a Knox 4th down drop kept if from being 4 TD's on 4 possessions. That's two straight games where the offense and Allen were excellent in the 2nd half. This indicates to me a structural problem not some type of issue with Allen. If I had to guess the recent deterioration of this season's O line has gotten into Allen's head. For something like the 5th straight season the Bills are fielding a below average O line. This season is shaping up to be back to back years with a much below average O line. Allen always has to worry about his right side and now were seeing the almost immediate pressure up the middle that many of us thought was gone with the signing of McGovern and drafting of Torrence. It's inexcusable that Bean/McD have not been able to fix the O line. And frankly the draft capital & free agent signings for this unit have not indicated that this is a high priority by management. And that is the crux of the problem and emblematic of how defensive oriented coaches & GM's think.

I kind of agree. Let the season play out with McD/Dorsey. No big signings either. If they right the ship and we go on and win the division and win at least one playoff game then we keep the status quo and try to tweak our way to a Super Bowl. But if we don't make the playoffs then a day after the season ends coaching and GM heads roll and we turn the direction of the franchise 180 degrees.

If you don't think Allen is "elite" you don't know football. So please lose the damn quotation marks. I think it's obvious that as a whole the Bill's offense is not elite. The times they do look "elite" is when Allen & Diggs are playing great and firing on all cylinders. But it's a mirage created by the FACT that Allen & Diggs are truly elite and can raise the level of the offenses play. Sure the D has been hit hard by injuries but NE had the worst QB & offense in the NFL and yet went up and down the field.

Like Herbert. The defensive mindset and talent surrounding Allen is not fixable when Allen is being reined in and the offense structured to please Bean & MCD. Sorry but we are in deep trouble if Allen can't make this offense work. And IMO it's not on Allen.

Two of those games involved the London hangover. But yes, unless we see an immediate improvement, the offensive problems may not be fixable with the current coaching & talent on the Bills. The ONLY solution may be to go all in on hero ball Allen. Sure that will mean there will be a couple of clunkers but there will be a lot more highly productive offensive games like we saw the last 2 years. Allen & Diggs are the only excellent players on Offense. After them you have average to below average talent at every position. Maybe Kincaid will rise above that as he's shown glimpses of the productive player he could be. And if we're lucky Cook will join him.

Actually great QB's and their offenses will sometimes struggle for a half. The most memorable recent example was the 2nd half Chiefs O against the Bengals in the AFC championship game. But today the Bills O and Allen put an offensive clinic on in the 2nd half with the exception of the Knox drop.

He was okay in the 1st half. The D created only one 3 & out and allowed the Pats to flip the field with a non scoring but time consuming 2nd quarter drive. But the point is that EVERY elite QB and their offense will have an off half. The truly elite like Allen followup a lackluster 1st half with a phenomenal 2nd half and Allen did exactly that. Twice in the 2nd half the D was beyond inept: * After the Bills scored a TD in the 3rd quarter to cut the NE lead to 3 the Bills D should have risen up and snuffed the Pats offense out. Instead they allowed them to go on a 6 minute plus FG drive. Then when the Bills finally took a 3 point lead at the 2 minute mark the D didn't just allow NE to go on a drive to tie the game and force OT they allowed them to score the winning TD. That is unacceptable given how Bean/McD have structured the Bills.

And Bean. McD & Bean would have won a Super Bowl in the 1970's through the 1st decade of the 21st century building a team the way they have the 2019 - 2023 Bills. But today they won't. When you have THE guy at QB and anyone who thinks the Bills don't have that guy at QB are crazy, you structure the team to fully exploit his abilities. Bean/McD have not done this. So yes while Mahomes would have been very successful and like Allen clearly an elite talent with the Bills he would not have been to a Super Bowl yet.

I worry that the slide in the O lines play is simply a result of D coordinators having enough film on the two new guards to have figured out their weaknesses and how to exploit them within the Bills blocking schemes. Remember the disaster that was Scaffold didn't become apparent until about halfway into the season. I agree about Cook & Kincaid. Keeping my fingers crossed that they keep getting better. But I also thought Allen was great today. Not he whole game but in the 2nd half Allen did exactly what you want your elite franchise QB to do when the offense is struggling: right the ship and score TD's to win the game. Consider that: * The Bills had 4 meaningful possessions in the 2nd half and they scored TD's on 3 of them and only failed to score points on the 4th when Knox dropped a 4th down pass at the Pats 30 yard line. * Allen was outstanding in the 2nd half when he had to be. * Just 2 quick 2nd half stops by the D against the worst O in the NFL likely would have given the Bills two extra possessions and 10 extra points.

Fair enough and like I said my eyes were really opened the last couple of weeks. And when my information changes my mind does to. I may have been slow on the uptake and as an optimist I'm going to give the Bills staff the benefit of the doubt hear. But damn people like you who did say we were more like the Chargers then the Chiefs were right. We're starting to lose games the Charger way to. Now I hope I'm wrong here and the Bills go on a tear. The NFL is weird like that. But I don't expect it. This will leave Pegula with a tough choice at the end of the season if heaven forbid the Bills fail to make the playoffs.

The injuries should not have been a big factor against what was by most measures the worst offense and QB in the NFL. Sure I wouldn't have expected a shut out but the D forced only one 3 & out and as per usual for this group failed to stop an opponent at several key points of the game. Particularly after the offense had corrected some things and caught fire.

Please, Allen was running for his life on way to many pass plays. How many times was he hit? Most QB's would have been sacked 3 or 4 more times today. He rarely had "good protection". And so what that he missed an open Diggs on a deep pass. Seriously, Allen will miss open receivers occasionally. The issue with the offense was in part the abysmal play of the defense. Way to many people fail to appreciate just how bad our D has been the last couple of weeks. IMO it's been worse then the O because it went up against the two worst offenses in the NFL. They got lucky against the Giants at the end of the half & game with their so called "goal line stands". Today they made Mac Jones look like freaking Joe Burrow. But here's the dirty little secret the defensive boosters don't want to admit: The Bills D seldom in these games grabs hold of and changes momentum. From the Pats opening time consuming drive to take an early 3 - 0 lead to allowing the NE to go on a long time consuming FG drive AFTER the Bills had come out of the halftime locker room and scored a TD to cut the lead to 13 - 10. Even though they didn't score a lot of points how many times did the Pats move the ball today using up time and flipping the field pinning the Bills deep? Buffalo's D created ONE 3 & out. That robbed the Bills of probably 2 extra offensive possessions.

The problem is deeper then Dorsey, much deeper. Bean & McD draft the talent and sign the free agents. And except for drafting Allen and signing Diggs they have whiffed on way to many offensive picks/FA signings while allotting the lions share of resources to the defense. A defense that has repeatedly let the Bills down at crunch time. Today may not have been on the same platform as a divisional playoff game but it was an important game against a Division opponent who happened to have the worst offense in the NFL and the Bills allowed them to go 75 yards for a game winning TD as time ran out.

Actually I can. If the Bills are going to take a high risk on a high end player then how about they do it with the O line or an offensive skill player? Today opened my eyes wider then they have been. I hope I have to eat my words as the Bills go on a 10 game winning streak but I don't see it happening. There are two teams with elite franchise QB's that are underachieving and wasting the talent of their super star QB's: The LA Chargers & Buffalo Bills. And in both cases the franchises have been run by defensive minded head coaches & GM's. IMO the only reason the Bills have out performed the Chargers over the last few years is that Buffalo has a true home field advantage that is worth 1 - 2 games per season and Allen is better then Herbert which is worth another 1 - 2 games per season. Cowherd may be a blow hard but he's 100% right about the difference between offensive & defensive coaches in the 2020's. For example the Bills have had 5 seasons to get the O line right and they haven't. I rest my case.

Because only a moron with zero football knowledge would blame Allen for this game.