CincyBillsFan

And Belicheat playing against a division foe he knows gives the Pats a massive advantage over whoever coaches the Vikings.

To be clear I think the quality of the offensive FA signings are a step below what we sign on the D. We bargain shop more often for offensive FA's. McGovern, a career back up at Dallas was our biggest offensive FA signing this year but Floyd (a good signing) as a bigger one both from cost and performance history. I hope you're right about this being the best O line in the McD era. The last couple of games it has not but like individual players can go into a slump so can units. It's fair to say that the jury is still out on this one. To be fair we have seen good results on offense compared to the rest of the league. We're top 5 in scoring and yards. So we are getting a lot out of our skill players which I attribute to Allen. But when you watch our WR's not named Diggs I don't see the consistent great catches that I see with a lot of other teams #2 & #3 WR's. As for KC this is the first season in the last 5 where you could say they don't have better skill players then the Bills do and their offense has looked inconsistent as a result. What you can say though is that the Chiefs have a much better O line and their offensive coaching is also far better.

That is what Marino's analysis of the NE game films showed. Greg Cosell has a different opinion for what Allen and the Bills O has been doing this season. And while you say "these arguments of whose fault is it are over simplified" you seem to put most of the blame on Allen. Sorry but I don't see it. Allen was off a bit in the first half (remember a dumb penalty wiped out a TD pass and the Bills missed a short FG) and excellent in the 2nd half leading the Bills back and taking a 3 point lead with under 2 minutes left to play. At least that was what I saw watching the game.

It's not that he's telling them not to try to hard it's that against bad teams McD wants the offense to chew up clock and be careful. Don't take risks that might lead to TO's, three & outs or great field position for the other team. Drive the ball to midfield and then punt them to the 10 yard line is a success in this approach. Don't give the other team a reason to get fired up and think they can win. McD wants a certain type of offensive game plan against these weaker teams in the 1st half. It's the opposite of the K Gun/Kelly years where Marv & company wanted to knock the other team out early using the offense to deliver the blow. To McD the Commanders game was the ideal game against inferior opponents. But against the Dolphins McD realized he had to be offensively aggressive right from the start and he was. Different opponent different offensive strategy.

You have to be more specific. The offense has been dismal in the 1st half of the last 2 games and outstanding in the 2nd half of those same games. Sure this is a frustrating lack of consistency. But why are they this way? Some posters are assuming it's the players particularly Allen. Others are throwing the blame at Dorsey. But what if it's neither and it's more about the strategy that the head coach brings in when facing what he considers clearly inferior teams? A defensive minded coach to boot. What are the things he emphasizes in the first half? Don't do anything that will compromise the defense and give our opponents a chance. McD wants a workmanlike victory where the other team implodes and he can rest his starters in the 4th quarter. But maybe we're not good enough to play this way or the difference between the really crap teams and the great ones doesn't allow you to play this way. If you remember a fully healthy Bills team played Washington this way and dominated by the end of the game. But look more closely at the Dolphins game. The fish were a very good team and a real threat so McD unleashed the Offense. There was no doubt that the Bills were more aggressive in their play calling and offensive attitude right from the start. And I think this was by design.

This is a great point and it suggests to me that the problem isn't Allen or even Dorsey but it's a strategic issue arising from the head coach. It seems like against inferior teams McD wants to win putting out the minimum effort. He does this I suspect in recognition that it's a long season and believes there will be less attrition of he does it this way. Of course the challenge is that in the NFL the difference between the best and worst team isn't that great. Think about the Dolphins game. McD saw the fish as a real threat and a great team. So how did the offense start that game - explosively and aggressively. I'll throw the Jags game out because the issue there was the travel. But against the Giants & Pats McD believed the Bills could win putting out 80% effort. Then when things went south the O was turned lose as you note and they performed very well at that point in BOTH games.

But to do this the team must prioritize the offense over the defense and by a wide margin. It definitely has not. You can't skimp on an O line that has been rated in the bottom half of the NFL this season and the last couple of seasons, and then expect the Offense to carry the team when the D experiences injuries and isn't playing well. And I haven't even mentioned our collection of underwhelming offensive skill players not named Diggs.

To be precise the offense has been unproductive in the first half and very productive in the 2nd half.

So who are the good outlet receivers who are reading the blitz and getting where they're supposed to be fast? Cook? Knox? Shakir? Harty? I don't see anyone like Beasley out there do you? And while you can argue the accuracy of PFF player rankings take a look at their assessment of the Bills O linemen so far this season. It ain't pretty.

Are the Pats really that much worse then the Vikings minus Jefferson? And part of Sal's pint was that in all 3 games you could argue that Allen & the Bills offense played the best. Now, setting aside the QB, let's line up the rest of each offensive unit and see who has the best talent.

Say this really is a significant problem for the Bills offense and I believe it is not, how is Allen fixing these things going to improve the O line? Seems to me that you can trace the offensive issues to a rapid decline in the O line's performance over the last 3 games then what Allen is or isn't doing. When the O line struggles even the elite QB's/offenses look disjointed and the QB's appear to have regressed in everything they do. Mahomes against TB in the Super Bowl; Burrow in a couple of games when he was sacked a bunch of times and just the other night with Tua/Miami missing multiple starters on their O line resulting in only 10 offensive points.

Sal makes a good point here:

Not true. If I believed as you do that Allen has played poorly the last few games and then proceeded to call out problems like: he can't read defenses; he's not accurate; he doesn't put the work in; he refuses to take the easy first downs; etc.; etc.; etc, then the obvious action would be to consider unloading Allen while his value is still sky high. The simple fact is that cumulatively the things that you and others are throwing out are not fixable. Judas Priest if you believe Allen has all these flaws in his game do you really think he can improve them at this point in his career? So logically trading Allen would have to be at the top of your list. Fortunately for the Bills I don't believe the stuff you guys are throwing out there are MAJOR problems. Sure Allen has to sharpen his game in places. You'll get no argument from me here. And yes Allen needs to be more consistent game to game. But when you look at the whole situation with the Bills those are relatively minor problems that can be corrected. The fact remains that with a clearly inferior O line; a group of skill players who are mediocre at best while at the same time the Bills are trying to change the basic scheme of their offense, Allen has managed to remain a top 5 QB. And if you don't trust me check out the stats. In the end we lost to NE because our banged up defense allowed Mac Jones and the anemic Patriot offense to march 75 yards in the last 2 minutes to score the winning TD.

I'll wait to hear from Greg Cosell among others before accepting Marino as being correct here.

So you're serious then. Okay but it will feel real crappy when Chicago is competing for and actually winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 ears while Buffalo falls back into football purgatory. Oh and do you think Pegula will give Williams a piece of the Bills as part of that rookie contract?

Pine Barren had to be expressing sarcasm at the direction this thread is going and not being serious here. I mean if they made that trade I would bet my house that Chicago would be an immediate Super Bowl contender and actually win one in the next 5 years while the Bills returned to the football purgatory of the great drought.

I suck at recognizing sarcasm and this is sarcasm right???? But if you're serious and the Bill's put Allen on the market tomorrow he would command at a minimum THREE 1st round picks and probably a couple of 2nd rounders to. And there would be 25 or more teams competing to make the trade.

Marino's comments are sloppy IMO. He calls out the O line and Cook's issues with picking up the blitz, factors know to create havoc with even the best QB's then lays the blame on Allen. I suspect that Bellicheat looked at the tape and saw that Cook can't pick up the blitzer (something both Moss & Moter were very good at) and then ruthlessly exploited it. I also suspect that with a few games tape in hand D coordinators are seeing some weaknesses in our new guards play and exploiting that. And of course they already know where Brown can be exploited at RT.

Are you seriously suggesting that Allen is nearing the point of being on the ropes in Buffalo? First off by every QB/team metric available Allen is having a very good year. Is he playing as well or as consistently as 2020 & 21? No. But he's still a top 10 and in most metrics a top 5 QB. Second,with all due respects to Joe Marino I'll wait to hear from a couple of other analysts like Greg Cosell & that guy who runs the QB University before I uncritically accept Marino's criticisms as being true or not overstated.

And don't forget that if Shanahan was the "God of Offense" the Dolphins have TWICE (after the Bronco's game and again after the Panthers game) been named the Archangel Micheal of offense.

None of this is true. You're just throwing crap at the wall like monkeys do in the zoo. Allen hasn't been a TO machine since week 1. And a more accurate description of Allen is that he's a TD producing machine. Allen doesn't actually read defenses? Really? So that 17 play 81 yard TD drive against the Giants was improvisation? Throw the ball when he hits his drop? What the hell does that even mean with a DT in his face? Sounds like your throwing football jargon around to impress people. That might work at Fishhaven. Allen doesn't prioritize moving the chains? Where do the Bills rank in getting first downs? Doesn't seem to be a problem when you look at the actual data and not just make stuff up. And how many first downs did Allen produce in those long TD drives the last couple of weeks? Allen is doing a lot of "flashy hero ball" is he? I think you're mistaking Allen making spectacular plays that only he can make with hero ball.

He is missing open guys all over the place? Really that is what your film study showed? And how do the TO's at the end of LAST SEASON and the Jet's game impact what is happening now? Do you think that awful 3 INT game Allen had against NE in 2019 may have had an effect to? Can you explain Allen's lack of trust in the first half but not the second half of the last three games? Seems odd if that really is a thing.

So you're just a whiny baby complaining about Allen on a Bills message board for some weird reason. Got it. Hey and I wouldn't want to put in writing that the Bills should get rid of Allen because it would capture forever that you made one of the dumbest posts in the history of 2BD.

So answer the question of what should the Bills do with the albatross of Josh Allen hanging around their necks? Given that most of the NFL would part ways with an enormous number of draft picks to acquire Allen shouldn't we put him on the trading block ASAP? After all if he continues to "suck" as you say his value will drop. So tell us what you would do. Real Bills fans have no problem proposing solutions to the teams problems. We do it all the time on 2BD.

The guy is a troll.