CincyBillsFan

McD has Allen which IMO has been the difference versus Lewis. I agree that firing McD is risky. But I believe that with an offensive minded coach and Allen this team will go the way of the Bengals who got the coach right first then got the QB right. We have the QB what is in doubt is whether or not we have the coach and more importantly coaching/management philosophy to fully exploit the special QB we have.

I give McD a pass for trying Peterman out. But I can't give hm a pass for naming Peterman the starter over Allen only to see his QB set a SECOND NFL record for offensive futility. I've said this before but McD did everything possible to screw up Allen's rookie year. Name one thing he got right? Allen succeeded in spite of McD whch is a credit to Allen and DaBoll.

Shottenhiemer. He was very successful at winning games and getting the Chiefs to the playoffs but I think he was 3 - 7 in playoff games. I know he officially "resigned" but he was forced out by ownership. Now it didn't work out for the Chiefs as the next coach couldn't even get them to the playoffs whch is the risk if the Bills were to part ways with McD. But they made the bold move based on their realization that Marty was not going to get them to a SB. The better and more timely example IMO is Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati. Lewis worked a major miracle in turning around a horrid Bengal's franchise. That team was bad, very bad. A lot like the Bills team that McD took over. And like McD Lewis fixed the problems and transformed a loser into a winner and multi year playoff team. But Lewis never won a playoff game (0 - 7 I think) and as a defensive minded coach he was ultimately the wrong guy to get the Bengals over the hump. So Mike Brown went with a young offensive minded guy in Zack Taylor. Two examples one with a sad ending and one with a happy ending. But two examples of ownership walking away from head aches who enjoyed a lot of success.

At the risk of sounding like a loon is there a possibility that McD benches Allen? Hear me out here: McD could approach Bean and argue that Allen's shoulder needs to heal fully so why not sit him for a couple of weeks. Remember McD is the man who benched Tyrod to go with the worst QB who has ever started a game in the NFL. Peterman threw FIVE INT's in the first half, an NFL record. McD then double downed on that decision and declared Peterman the starter over Allen the next year only to see Peterman set another NFL record for bad QB play - 9 straight possessions without getting a 1st down. Then McD was forced to throw Allen to the wolves the next week and start him against a very good Charger D. And don't forget that because of McD's infatuation with the worst QB to ever start an NFL game Allen missed taking most of the 1st team reps in Training Camp & the preseason games. McD doesn't have a clue about QB's and I wouldn't put it past him to try to pull off a stunt like this.

I also think that all this talk of Allen "hiring" Dorsey is BS. McD hired Dorsey because he felt he could control him better then bringing in a high end experienced OC who would demand some level of autonomy as a condition for taking the job. My guess is that Allen wasn't opposed to the promotion because he was promised that the offense wouldn't change that much from Daboll's and for the first half of the 2022 season it didn't. Then the McD effect started creeping in and accelerated during this off season.

Wow your very reasonable point got a lot of negative reaction in the memes. But you are spot on. The guy is an ex QB with an excellent offensive mind which is perfect for today's NFL. He also has shown that he can win as a head coach in the NFL. An as an Ohio State fan I can say with certainty that Harbaugh has done a remarkable job with that program particularly the offense. IMO Allen would thrive with Harbaugh as coach. The first point is why I would hire Harbaugh in a second. The 2nd point needs to be clarified: Harbaugh lost to the Raven Defense which was one of the best in the history of the NFL that year.

Can't do it. The Bengals & Chiefs walked away from coaches who were regularly getting their teams to the playoffs because ownership recognized that the current coaches could not get the team over the hump. I'm hoping that Pegula sees the situation in the same way that the Brown's & Hunt's did.

Funny how all the evidence contradicts the idea that Allen is the problem here. People seem to want to create all sorts of far fetched & bizarre theories centered on Allen as to why the Bills offense struggles at times. Of course if they simply looked at the stats and watched the games Allen is the LEAST of our problems. If I had to pick just a few: * Bad O line. Hey I'm going by what the experts are saying and what my eyes are telling me and this O line is below average, at best. * Lack of play makers not named Diggs. Sure Kincaid is showing signs of becoming an elite play making TE but he's not there yet which leaves only Diggs. Look at the other legit SB contenders and all but KC have multiple elite play makers and KC has a much better O line and offensive coaching then the Bills. And for the record Allen & Mahomes are having an almost identical year in production & TO's. * Defense dominates the Bills coaching DNA. Where every other serious SB contender has directed the lions share of resources to surround their stud QB with the best possible talent McD/Bean have gone in the other direction. McD's idea of "complimentary" football is the offense sacrificing what works for it to help the D out. This is a patently absurd approach which could only lead to a schizophrenic O.

By design which is the sad thing about it. The Bills brain trust in 2020 decided that they could milk Allen's talent and skimp on the offense, particularly the O line. For those that don't believe me over the course of 3 seasons/drafts (2020, 2021, 2022) the highest draft pick they've used on the O line was a #3 (Cody Ford was a #2 in 2019 & Torrence a #2 in 2023). And in FA they've repeatedly signed O line back-ups & retreads during this period. There has not been a serious attempt by the Bills to build a great O line in the same way that Cincinnati, KC & the Eagles have done. At the same time the bills threw the lions share of their draft/FA resources at the D in the hopes of building a monster along the lions of the 1985 Bears. This approach would have worked in the 1990's and 2000's but was doomed to failure in the modern NFL.

Well said. I was watching Herbert struggle with the Jet's D last night and wondered what our resident Allen critics would make of that performance. Every time I hear one of the usual suspects on 2BD throw shade at Allen because he was good not great in a game I remember what Greg Cosell repeatedly says when he talks about Allen and the Bills: "if you need your QB to be great every time he plays to win then you have a problem and it's NOT your QB."

To be complete: "That's how you rattle a mediocre QB behind a terrible O line." Lucky the Bills have Allen who can get out of some of those situations. I wonder if all those posters claiming Allen doesn't see the field or take the easy throws are saying the same thing about Herbert? He was 16 of 30 for 136 yards and no TDs'. Sure Herbert didn't turn the ball over but that was just plain luck as he had one INT dropped and recovered his own fumble when it made a lucky bounce. Also the Chargers O basically only scored 13 points. My point i that offenses are struggling more this year as Defenses have apparently closed the gap.

I would take Harbaugh as head coach in a second. As an ex-QB he has the offensive background that works n the modern NFL. Importantly he has alreday been very successful in the NFL. If Pegula were to pass him by if he became available the Bills would regret it for years.

And what form is that - a bad head coach?

That Super Bowl Bengal's team was not the same team that beat the Bills in the playoffs the next year. The O line was horrendous and Burrow was not nearly as polished as he was a year later.

Yes. If you recall the Bills were 7 - 6 and left for dead with the Pat's looking like a shoe in to win the East. Then Allen played a nearly perfect game at NE to steal the division away from the Pats; then he played a perfect game against NE in the 1st playoff game and then put on two of the most electrifying comeback drives in the 4th quarter against the Chiefs. In hindsight what 13 seconds demonstrated to me was: * that the ceiling for Allen in playoff games was perfection * that the ceiling for our coaching staff was much lower Like a lot of Bills fans I ignored what 13 seconds was telling me about McD. I made excuses for mistakes that were inexcusable at that level of PROFESSIONAL football. I scoffed at posters on 2BD that claimed McD was deeply flawed as a head coach. But now I admit that they were right and I was wrong. Today Colin Cowherd said it best: McD is like Marty Schottenheimer & Chuck Knox. Good coaches who were limited by their explicit lack of imagination and what it took to reach that final level of success in the NFL. Like these two, McD was good at taking a dysfunctional franchise that made losing an art form and transforming it into a winning team. This was no small achievement. But that's as far as he can and will ever take the Bills. Those suggesting that Allen is the problem are flat out wrong. The problem is staring us in the face and some are choosing to find alternative scapegoats.

Wow!

Seriously that's your comeback? Re-watch the NE and KC playoff games that year and tell me that Allen wasn't in a special zone. One that had SB written all over it. It was like Flaco's SB run but on steroids.

If "13 seconds" and Allen's play in that game and the previous one against NE isn't enough to convince you Allen can win a Super Bowl then you're beyond help. I agree about the challenge. As another poster pointed out the risk/reward of gaining 9 yards on 1st down was not worth the potential loss of a TO. As for the amount of time left after the Bill's last TD, sure more would be better but there was more then enough time to win that game had the D made the stop.

I disagree. The critical element of that last TD drive was to score with more then enough time left to get another chance to win the game should the defense make a stop. The Bills scored with over three and a half minutes left in the game. They should have had 2 TO's remaining but only had one as McD foolishly challenged a 1st down incompletion call that was only 9 yards. Bottom lie is that if the defense makes the stop the Bills would have got the ball back with at least 2 minutes left.

Monkey's throwing excrement at the wall is a pretty standard practice in the zoo.

Allen put the Bills in their best position to win a Super Bowl since 1993 and then 13 seconds happened. That alone proves that Allen has what it takes to lead a team to a Super Bowl win. Thirteen seconds should have opened all our eyes to where the REAL problem lies with this franchise and it's not with Josh Allen.

This is a real possibility that Bills fans are ignoring. Depending on the direction the franchise takes I could see Allen, particularly after a bad injury, deciding that enough is enough.

Judas Priest, transitive properties do not apply to anything that happens in the NFL.

KC & Baltimore have a better O line and better RB's. The Eagles have a much better O line and running game. In the absence of a running game and an O line that plays poorly having a weak WR group is a big problem.

When you consider the draft/FA capitol spent on the D line in the last 5 seasons they should be dominant. Oliver, Groot, Boogie, Epinesa, Floyd, Von Miller. Can you imagine if we had redirected half of that to the O line or landing another high end WR?