CincyBillsFan

I agree that under the circumstances Mahomes is having a better season then Allen. That's why I said Allen was playing better then "almost every other QB". I also find your argument unpersuasive. Sure Allen could play better, every QB could including Mahomes, could play better. But Allan's play is not the core problem with our offense. So which of the following do you think would move the needle more on offensive production keeping everything else the same: * Improved play by Allen. * Improved play by the O line. * Improved play by the skill players. * Improved coaching & play calling. * A commitment over the last four seasons to spending high draft picks & FA signings on the O line and skill players. To me the answer is obvious. How about you?

He is getting there and I'm very confident that he will be great. But right now he's an emerging player.

I would suggest that it's an impossible task as NO QB is excellent all 4 quarters in every game they play in. Yet you're right to note that this seems to be the expectation of a surprisingly large number of fans on 2BT. As the great QB analyst Greg Cosell repeatedly says when talking about the Bills & Allen: "If you need your QB to be great every game then you have a problem and it's not the QB."

The QB and one of the WR's are high powered the rest of the offense is low wattage.

What QB's are playing better then Allen so far this year? Allen and Edmunds nave NOTHING in common and you lose all credibility when you suggest that they do. At his best Edmunds was never a top 10 LB while Allen has been a top 5 QB for the last three and one half seasons including this one.

An O line that over the McD/Bean era has not seen the use of a single #1 pick and only two #2 picks in SIX YEARS. An O line where Mitch Morse (2019) is by far the most aggressive FA signing in SIX YEARS. Is it even possible to build anything better then an average O line with this level of commitment?

For what it's worth Allen also leads the league in total TD's and QBR rating. Allen is in fact playing better then almost every the other QB in the NFL. And yet the Bills are still losing which is the crux of the problem.

First, when we had the opportunity to load up on the O line & skill players like the Chiefs, Eagles & Bengal's all did during their elite QB's rookie deals, we didn't. Other then Diggs who did we sign? Instead the Bills out their money & draft picks into the defense. A defense that was primarily responsible for our exits from the playoffs in 2019, 2020, 2021 & 2022. And last I looked Allen is the 9th highest paid QB in the NFL and is likely to drop to 10th once Lawrence gets his deal.

Then you need to think a little deeper. Comparing two QB's in a head to head game without comparing the talent and coaching around them is silly and misleading. It leads to notions like Brock Purdy is an MVP candidate who is one of the best QB's in the NFL.

And this is why I still have hope and also why this game really is the season.

Thought exercise: switch Burrow & Allen last Sunday night and who do you think wins the game and how do the stats shake out? I'm confident Allen's wins the game, wins all the passing stats AND would still have been the better runner.

I didn't say we had the worst group in the league but we do have the worst group among the legitimate Super Bowl contenders. On offense, I would say the following contenders either have better skill players and/or a better O line then the Bills: Eagles, Cowboys, Chiefs, Bengal's, Ravens, Lions, Jags, 49's, Dolphins. Now let's look at offensive coaching and franchise philosophy (where does the team put the majority o their FA & Draft capitol) which I believe go hand in hand. These contenders are better then the Bills: Bengals, Chiefs, Dolphins, 49's, Eagles, Cowboys, Lions, Jags, 49's.

Burrow had much better O line play; much better WR play and better offensive coaching. Yet it took a 4th quarter Bills fumble at the Bengal's 10 yard line and the Buffalo D's inability to get the ball back to the Bills offense that likely won Burrow & the Bengals the game. Big money? You mean less then Rogers, Wilson, Murry, Jackson, Watson & Herbert and about $3 million more per year then Danial Jones. That BIG MONEY?

But the Bengal's tackles did a nice job protecting Burrow off the edge. Their O line was build first and foremost to provide decent pass protection. And they have spent considerable draft & FA resources to achieve this.

This is a disturbing trend because the Bills put most of their franchises eggs in the defensive basket and this unit's bad play has moved from the playoffs to the regular season. Sure injuries have played a role but so what, injuries happen no? And while Allen's TO's do put pressure eon the D all those TD's he scores should be going a long way towards relieving that pressure, no? Which has been the pattern during the playoffs over the last few years with the exception of the Ravens game. Now we see bad D in the regular season. Sure injuries have played a big role here but if your franchise is defensive focused in resource allocation and coaching expertise there should be enough talent/schemes to at least maintain a decent D.

But what are the standards that an offense with an elite QB and one elite WR should set? An offense that has a below average O line (maybe way below), skill players that are average at best (sure Kincaid is on an upwards trajectory), coaches that are not considered top of the line offensive minds and a franchise that is focused first on its defense? My expectations are that we're getting exactly what we built on offense. During the critical 2019, 2020, 2021 & 2022 seasons in which the current Bills team was created the defense received the lions share of the draft & FA capitol. During this time the Bills made ONLY ONE big move to improve their offense: trading for Diggs which has been a home run. With the possible exception of Morse (who had concussion issues) EVERY offensive FA signing has been a reach or an over the hill/back up player. Ditto the draft where during those four years the Bills favored the D in a ridiculous way with the highest offensive picks being in round 2 in two of the four drafts. Yes, the Bills started to change course this year and used a 1st & 2nd round to pick offensive guys. Kincaid looks on his way to being an elite play maker while Torrenze beat out the previous seasons starting guard. Imagine how good our O would be today if we flipped the draft & FA signing over the last 4 years to favor the offense?

But it begins and ends with the fact that the Chiefs franchise values offense over defense. Strategically their defense is expected to compliment what their offense is doing not as in the Bills case the other way around. They do this because their head coach is offensive focused and he has one of the top 3 QB's in the NFL. As a result the Chiefs act decisively to fix problems on their offense. Reid sees Mahomes as his ticket to winning games on the back of his offense and acts accordingly. The Bills are polar opposites with a defensive minded coach who sees having an elite QB as a way to free up even more resources for the defense. McD sees Allen as a ticket to having an effective offense without having to commit a lot of resources to it. The role of the offense in McD's system is to compliment a defense that is expected to win games. This worked 20 years ago but not today.

I suspect that when you're the defending Super Bowl champions and have been to 4 straight AFC championship games all on the back of your Offense their fans aren't so disappointed in a one year dip. Especially given that their coach & GM will prioritize WR's in the off season and fix the problem like they did with the O line after the TB Super Bowl loss.

Don't forget that the Bengal's have a much better O line and is anyone taking our RB's over Joe Mixon?

With Allen's play over the last three and a half seasons (including this season)? Absolutely!

Allen's play has won far more games then his mistakes have cost them games.

You are probably right and that's a shame. The current NFL is a league where owners have to make snap decisions. Maintaining the status quo will not get this team over the hump. The ONLY way it might work is if Bean takes control and tells McD that the lions share of resources are going to the offense for the next 3 seasons and that we're bringing in an experienced OC who specializes in dual threat QB's. I watched what happened to Carson Palmer down here in Cincinnati. When Palmer became convinced the Bengal's were not building a team that could win a SB because of their criminal neglect of the O line (sound familiar) he forced his way off the team by "retiring". I could see this happening with Allen a couple of years down the road if they stick with McD who tries to turn Allen into Brock Purdy while spending 3rd round draft picks and signing other teams backups for the O line.

Did you catch McD's after the half interview? He seemed pleased that his defense had got it's act together and made it a little harder for Cincy to score TD's after giving up back to back long TD drives at the start of the game. It was weird. He then complained about the offense not playing "complimentary football" whatever the hell that means. The reality was that the O started out on fire with a great TD drive and then McD apparently signaled Dorsey to change things up on Offense to protect his floundering defense. A defense which started very slowly giving up back to back TD drives to start the game. So yea McD made some adjustments that helped the D which was playing poorly while making other adjustments that hurt an offense that started the game out strong. It's madness.

This is the same coach that thought Petermann was an NFL caliber starting QB. I'm convinced he doesn't know a thing about QB's.

I would take the chance pending the outcome of this season. If McD stabilizes the Bills situation and they go on a run and win the AFC East and then win a playoff game or two McD will have proven us naysayers at least partially wrong. Get to the AFC Championship game or a SB and he will have definitively proven us wrong and I would be very happy to admit I was wrong. The thing I don't want to live through is a slow decline like they had in Cincy under Lewis. That's worse then an implosion.