CincyBillsFan
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Posts posted by CincyBillsFan
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2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:
I was being facetious at first but honestly I think the idea has a lot of merit
Right now we have a big mismatch in philosophy. There is just no need to roster an elite QB on a team that throws at one of the lowest rates in the league. What I'm proposing nets us a bunch of draft capital to fortify the defense and an affordable QB to run ball control offense.
I would prefer the much easier and safer way of stocking the Bills Super Bowl trophy case by getting rid of McD; bringing in the best offensive minded coach available and focus the lions share of draft picks and FA signings on the offense.
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42 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:
Again, what McDermott wants. Then Allen wins 3 superbowls for another team. Come on man, you know that would happen.
I think GoBills808 is kidding and mocking some of the more imaginative Allen takes on these threads.
But yes I do think this is what McD would want if he could get it. Like I posted on another tread McD is probably jealous of his friend Tomlin who doesn't have to deal with an elite QB and can structure game plans entirely around the D.
And if Shanahan ever got his hands on Allen the Super Bowl wins would fall into his lap.
On 10/8/2024 at 10:08 PM, balln said:These injuries are a large part his own fault. Sorry he’s not getting a pass. This year
maybe instead of running and jumping / hurdling in from 10 yard out week 1.He learns to just become elite anticipatory accurate thrower in the red zone. His passing metrics are bad near goaline
prob should have just dirted that trick play - but I’ll blame OL and Brady for that
then lastly. Hes not going to be able to bail right and live that way for his career. He’s gonna have to learn to navigate and step up the pocket and throw w good platform more
Yep and I bet you thought Andrew Lucks injuries were his fault to. The more I think about it the more worried I am that Allen will pull a Luck and I wouldn't blame him in the least if he did.
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1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:
It's a fan forum for an NFL team. Quarterback and Head Coach. That is what gets talked about. It isn't just our forum. It's 99% of them.
Just tune out the nonsense and don't let the serious stuff wind you up.
I visit a few other fan forums on a regular basis and it just seems to me that there is something different about the criticisms of Allen.
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5 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:
Nobody trashes Allen for one or two bad passes unless they are intercepted.
He did not turn the ball over only because the Texans dropped INTs twice and he was barely out of bounds by a toe when he fumbled the ball.
Since the offense is so reliant on Allen with the lack of skill players, him playing poorly is the top 100 reasons to be concerned. He is going to have to play a very clean superhuman game to beat the Jets.
First off if we're now going to scold Allen over dropped INT's then Mahomes is one of the worst QB's out there because he makes a specialty of throwing INT's that are dropped. Hell in almost every game I watch DB's drop INT's. That's why they're DB's and not WR's.
Second the problem is that the offense is so reliant on Allen. As Greg Cosell has repeatedly said it is not reasonable nor effective to expect Allen to play Superman every week. The problem, and it's been the same for the last 5 years is that Allen has never been surrounded with an elite or IMO even a great offense. I'm talking about great O line AND great skill players.
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5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
They are two separate points. You can criticise a player for playing poorly and still not think they are a problem going forward. You don't have to think someone is a problem for the long term to criticise them.
Criticising Josh Allen for Sunday, first half especially, is legitimate. I don't think anyone here is arguing he is a top 5 concern on the team going forward. That would be insane. But he didn't play well on Sunday and probably bears more of the blame for the defeat than in any game since the Jets opener last year.
I'm not saying it isn't legitimate to criticize Allen in the immediate aftermath of the Texans game for his poor play contributing to the loss. The post game thread is a great place to do it. What I'm talking about is the OBSESSION in criticizing Allen after a poor game. By my count there are SIX threads that either are titled to be openly critical of Allen or were attempts to provide a different perspective on Allen taken over by those heavily criticizing the QB.
Why are so many threads and posts obsessing over Allen's poor performance in ONE freaking game? Sorry but it's over the top.
I do see one potential top 5 concern for the Bills about Allen going forward. It's that maybe the Bills are doing to him what he Colts did to Andrew Luck. If that has happened and I don't think it has then we should all get ready to welcome back the lost decades.
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5 hours ago, Brand J said:
Wasn’t it you who also said that Allen’s off game against the Jets in the opener last year wasn’t one of the five biggest issues in determining the outcome?
No it wasn't because my point has never been about single game outcomes but about season long or even multi season long outcomes. My point is that bad games happen to every player and sometimes the team losses a game because of a key player having a bad day and I say so what.
My point is that at no time in the last 5 years have I thought that Allen was one of the top 5 or even top 10 problems facing the Bills. He wasn't one of the top 10 issues facing the Bills after his bad game against the Jets, his even worse game against Jacksonville a few years ago or his poor game Sunday. Allen is the NUMBER ONE reason the Bills have made the playoffs the last 5 straight years. The NUMBER ONE reason they have won 4 straight Division titles and the NUMBER ONE reason NFL people view the Bills as a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Do you disagree? If you do I would love to hear who you think fills that role.
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1 hour ago, zow2 said:
Josh has resembled a QB with slow eyes in the pocket, and add some inaccuracy to that it's a recipe for some bad games. I think he should run more and make plays while scrambling. That's when he is great. Standing there scanning the field and passing from the pocket is not his best attribute imo.
I think his eyes are working just fine. He is seeing that on most plays nobody is getting open.
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Another thread telling us that Allen was awful, terrible even Peterman like. Just what we need. And bashing Einstein an ardent Allen supporter is just to good to pass up. I like Simms but his review is not the be all end all of what happened on Sunday.
I agree that Allen was bad. But not awful as he didn't turn over the ball. But in the end so what? Hell even in games the Bills win and the O looks great folks come on 2BD to trash Allen over 0ne or two bad passes.
So going forward what's the biggest issue facing the Bills:
* Allen having a bad day.
* The WR's having a bad day and not getting much separation.
* The dropped passes by Kincaid.
* The O line having a bad day.
* The D having a bad start to the game putting the Bills in a hole. After all in the last two games the Bills D has surrendered 5 TD's on 6 drives.
* The coaches having a bad day.
Allen having an off day is not even in the top 5 issues coming out of this game IMO. So why are so many obsessing over it?
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37 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:
If Josh plays clean and doesn't give the Jets a short field to work with, Bills should win this one. They should target Kincaid, Knox, and Cook 25 times in this game and Coleman should get 6 or 7 targets unless they play Sauce on him.
In theory you're right. But the issue we all are sort of ignoring is that Allen has played very clean with only 2 TO's in the first 5 games. One fumble took away a FG and the other gave the Ravens the ball well outside the red zone.
The question we need to ask is whether or not the obsession on Allen reducing his TO's hasn't done more damage by simultaneously reducing his TD production.If we project current stats to the end of the season (a risky thing to do I know) then Allen is on pace for only 7 TO's and 34 TD's.
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1 minute ago, Big Turk said:
The offense has also played very poorly for much of the last 2 games, which is part of the reason why they have been down big early...they can't get anything going in the first half. Scoring 6 points in the last 2 first halves combined isn't going to cut it.
But on the road against good teams offenses often start out slow. Most of last season and so far this season the Chiefs offense starts a lot of games slowly and they rely on their D to keep it close until they figure things out. The Chargers game was a great example of this.
BTW the Bills scored those 2 FG's within their 2nd drives in both games. The offense then disappears in part because as the D folds and gives up TD drives - 5 TD drives in the opponents first 6 possessions - Allen starts to press and the offense seizes up like an engine without oil.
And for the record we fans are deluding ourselves if we believe that the offensive talent as currently presented is explosive and consistently able to generate points.
Over the last 6 seasons the Bills have made the strategic choice to favor the D over the O relying on their elite franchise QB to carry the O. And to a degree it's worked as the Bills have enjoyed a prolong period of post merger success 2nd only to the Super Bowl years. And when the O has deviated from the McD definition of complimentary football actions are taken to reign it back in.
The current O is structured to play McD ball and Brady is the type of OC that McD wants to enforce the idea that the O will play a certain way. And the desire to cut down on Allen's TO's and keep him healthy only reinforce that the O must play McD ball.
The problem though is that the defense, for various reasons, isn't good enough to play McD ball. Melting like ice cream under a hot sun early in games is the worst thing a D can do trying to play McD ball. In game adjustments are fine but once Allen starts pressing in response to his D giving up TD's it's difficult for the O to bounce back. Making matters worse is the sense that a McD offense is not the best thing to run when you have an elite physical freak talent like Allen whose greatest strength is making off schedule plays.
It's the same dilemma we've been arguing about since 13 seconds and I see only one solution: either McD moves on or Allen does and I know which one I want to happen.
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One common theme that I agree 100% with is the notion that over the last 2 games Allen has pressed and when he presses he messes up his mechanics and can struggle.
So why is Allen feeling the need to press early in these games? The answer is simple and IMO a legitimate point of criticism: the Bills D has played poorly the last two weeks allowing teams to jump out to big early leads before Allen & the O can get settled in. On the road it's especially important for the D to start strong. Consider these facts:
* The Ravens scored TD's on their first 3 drives to go up 21 - 3 midway through the 2nd quarter. Is it surprising Allen was pressing after only a quarter?
* The Texans scored two TD's on their first three drives to take a 14 - 3 1st quarter lead. Again this forces the Bills ad Allen to press on offense.
So in addition to Allen having to play great in almost every game for them to win the offense needs to get off to a quick start. If they don't and the D allows the opponent to go up and down the field like a hot knife cutting through butter Allen tries to compensate and presses. And when Allen presses his effectiveness drops significantly.
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11 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:
I hope they are testing him today, and did so yesterday. I mean, you don't risk a JA17 career for a few games! It makes no sense.
Yes Josh is too tough for his own good, but people forget that if he was out 2-3-4 seconds, he doesn't recall any of it! For the person out, no time lapsed. It's not like he'd be lying.
But we all know he's the type to hide his symptoms if he has any, and that's not good.
I would be shocked if Allen hasn't been thoroughly checked out for a concussion by the Bills.
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9 hours ago, dorquemada said:
given how awful the play of the OL is we absolutely need knox in there. in fact if all we're going to do is run the ball and pass 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage why not just have 4 TEs in. QB/RB, 5xOL, 4xTE. It's the perfect formation to run the ball all day long which is what McD dreams of
The Chiefs used it last night and it sort of worked.
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5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
I get that, but a motivated Rodgers who is delighted by this firing can still be dangerous. Also, Vikings and Broncos defenses have been playing lights out and are amongst the best in the NFL right now.
And you do realize the Jets D is also great and we have only scored a measley 3 TD's in the last 2 weeks ourselves right?
Watching Rogers this season reminds me of Kelly's last season - he could still make some of his signature throws but overall suffered a rapid decline and was a below average QB. I see the same thing with Rogers who checks it down at the first hint of pressure.
And the Jet's offense did not look good against the Titans either.
My worry going into this game has always been the Jets D. But I find it hard to believe that they aren't seeing this as Saleh being screwed over.
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3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
I think the Jets do look like that, especially on the offense. Hackett is hot garbage, but lets not pretend Rodgers has zero juice left either. He isn't the same guy, but no one is happier today than Rodgers, and an amped up Rodgers can be dangerous still in a game like this that is pretty vital for the Jets to get back into the divisional race. They lose, and they are really behind the 8 ball to even make the playoffs...they win, and they lead the AFCE for the first time this season.
I hate Rodgers as much as anyone...I think he isn't the same guy...but I am also not going to say he isn't capable of coming out hot this game with more pep in his step with the guy he hated gone.
I actually like Rogers. But am curious as to how Saleh was holding him back? By all accounts Rogers & Hackett ran the offense without any "help" from Saleh so how is firing him helping Rogers get the offense to be more productive? The only thing that makes sense is that Saleh balked at bringing Adams in because of the cost.
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1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:
The worst part about this is that a coaching change can really bring out the best in a team that first game out. Chargers gave us a scare last year in their first game after they fired their HC, Raiders responded last year too. Its quite common actually, so this IMO makes the Jets more dangerous on Monday night where we are coming off two lame duck and embarrassing performances as well.
Jets game IMHO just got a bit more concerning as we really need to right the ship and win this game.
There is statistical support for this idea the last 5 years but I would argue that this is a very different firing then what we've seen before:
* It's real early in the season and the Jet's at 2 - 3 are still very much in the playoff hunt.
* Later season firings trigger players on bad teams to play harder for their careers. This is so early and the players will ave the London fog still swirling around their heads it's hard to predict what will happen.
* Late season firings often involve coaches the players don't like and the elevation of a coach they like so they play harder. Is their evidence that this is happening here?
* Late season firings can also trigger player guilt in letting down a coach they really like so they play harder. But at this point in the season will there be any guilt for being 2 - 3?
* The Jets scored just 2 TD's in their last two games. They lost to both the Vikings & Broncos because of the crappy play of their offense. Remember the Jets D only gave up 10 points to Denver & 16 points to the Vikings (the O handed the Vikes a TD on a pick 6). Imagine if last year the Bills offense was scoring 35 points per game but the D was giving up 40 over a 5 game stretch and they fired Dorsey in response. My guess is that the players reaction would be a lot different then it was.
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Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
Yea if this was a team that didn’t give us trouble to begin with I’d be a little more anxious. This wasn’t a layup game before that was upgraded to unpredictable. It was going to be a very tough game that is now downgraded to unpredictable
Great point and I actually like that it is now an unpredictable rather then worrisome game for the Bills.
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2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
And it’s not like Saleh hasn’t had us sweating in MetLife numerous times…were 1-2 there in his tenure and the one win was when they were in full rebuild mode year 1
And to be honest going into Monday's game I was a lot more worried about what Saleh's D might do to our struggling offense then I was about what Rogers and Hackett might do to our D. This is really a weird decision at this point by the Jets.
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2 minutes ago, Bleedingreennc said:
If this thing with Saleh about to fire Hackett is true, that means Rodgers is calling the shots and then we are doomed.
I assume you mean "we" as in a Jet's fan? But yea this firing seems strange to me with the Jets only one game behind a reeling Bills team coming into the Meadowlands. I've seen all the Jets games this season and except for week one, the defense has not been the problem. The offense on the other hand has reeked. Firing Saleh now seems crazy like Carolina Panthers owner crazy.
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52 minutes ago, ImpactCorey said:
Wow, there really WAS nobody open.
And that more then a concussion or Diggs on the other team is going to rattle a QB.
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1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:
Wow
If this is true I doubt the Jets will get a "dead cat bounce" out of firing Saleh and in fact this might be a case of it hurting the Jets for both the Bills game and the rest of the season.
Remember the best part of the Jets the last few years has been their D and that was Saleh's specialty. It's reasonable to assume that the defensive players liked and respected Saleh. After all even in the face of bad QBing the last couple of years the D played hard and was quite good. Now you have a Superstar QB show up who missed one season due to injury and has had a mediocre, at best, season so far, orchestrating getting the defensive minded coach fired.
If I'm a Jet defender I'm thinking that given the outcomes to date the guy who needed to get fired wasn't Saleh by Hackett.
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11 minutes ago, NewEra said:
lol- Allen makes me very happy- I’m an Allen homer. He was AWFUL on Sunday. If you don’t see that, then there’s nothing that will ever make you say a bad word about him
Yes Allen was awful for a big part of the game Sunday though he was quite good in the 3rd Quarter. But then again the O line was awful; the WR's were awful, the RB's average (at best) the D was awful for large parts of the game though like Allen had a great 3rd quarter. And of course the coaching was awful.
But since I believe that Allen isn't and has never been a part of the real problem facing the Bills I don't see a need to dwell on his poor performance. Every player at every position will have a couple a season. The Bills issues that concern me are systemic and related to a franchise that values defense over offense in an era of football where the offense rules.
I was watching the Steelers/Cowboys game and marveling at how Tomlin is able to keep that Franchises head above water every season without a decent QB. In fact it seems to me that Tomlin doesn't really care that he doesn't have a great QB under center. The Steelers are exactly the team that Tomlin wants and is comfortable with. He believes that one day his focus on the D and his demand that the O play complimentary football to what the D does will pay off with a SB win and he doesn't need a great QB to do it. It never will IMO but I doubt you could convince Tomlin of that.
And you know who Tomlin reminds of? McD. I wondered as I watched that Sunday night game if McD wouldn't trade situations with Tomlin in a heartbeat. There are a lot of coaches in the NFL that would give up their 1st born to have Allen as their QB. Tomlin and I'm coming to believe that McD are not one of them. And this IMO might be at the core of a systemic problem facing the Bills that can only be solved if one of them leaves. I know who I would keep.
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8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:
lol if 'Patty' was QB we'd be 0-5 rn but sure you 'loyal to the laundry' 😂😂foh
Not sure if we would be 0 - 5 but I don't think we would be any better then the current 3 - 2 and maybe would be 2-3. I took a look at Allen and Mahomes stats through the first 5 games and here's what I found:
Mahomes Passing: 1235 yrds; 6 TD's; 6INT's; 69% completion; 89 rating
Allen Passing: 945 yrds; 8 TD's; 0 INT's; 60% completion; 103 rating
Mahomes Rushing: 83 yrds; 0 TD's; 0 lost fumbles
Allen Rushing: 160 yrds; 2 TD's; 2 lost fumbles
Mahomes Total Production: 1318 yrds; 6 TD's; 6 TO's
Allens Total Production: 1105 yrds; 10 TD's; 2 TO's
Seems to me that that difference between the Chiefs 5 - 0 record versus the Bills 3 - 2 record has been Defense and Coaching. Because QB play has not been the difference.
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52 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:
I have to strongly disagree. This was a well placed ball and should have been a routine catch
Correct. If they're going to criticize that throw by Allen then there really isn't anything the guy can do to make them happy.
The loss was bad, but watching Josh take a few brutal hits was much worse....
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
We're watching the "Andrew Luck" treatment of Allen in real time. In the season opener the injury was due to Allen's leap to score a TD. A leap BTW which came close to sealing the victory against the Cards. So it was justified. The last two games have seen Allen take brutal hits due to bad play design & the inability to execute properly.