CincyBillsFan
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Posts posted by CincyBillsFan
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11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:
2 - the bills made the playoffs in Allen’s second year when he was very raw still and was a major reason we lost that playoff game to Houston.
This is flat out wrong. Allen was NOT the major reason the Bills lost that playoff game. The major reasons the Bills lost that game:
* The defense, as it has been prone to do in the playoffs, blew a late 3rd quarter 16 - 0 lead.
* McD got to conservative in the 2nd half with the offense.
Allen actually played well in that game given it was his first playoff game, was on the road, and the Bills had not exactly surrounded him with play makers unless you consider that guy from the CFL a "ply maker".
16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:3 - the defense has ranked 6th, 2nd, 1st, 16th, & 2nd in points allowed since Allen has been here.
And in the playoffs during the time Allen has been here the defense has played poorly in all but one of the games.
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12 hours ago, 90sBills said:
There’s a reason he’s 0-6 in OT.
The reasons:
* The defense playing bad in almost every one of those games.
* A head coach that is overwhelmed by the pressures of OT.
* Nobody else makes a play.
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22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:
Can we agree it was a stupid plan to begin with? What top 10 pick sits out the first year? Mahomes was the exception playing behind an accomplished qb for a playoff team.
I agree. It's one thing if the Bills had a solid, veteran QB like Alex Smith to play the role they apparently wanted McCarron or, gulp, Peterman to fill. But given Allen's play in 2018 surrounded by so little talent on the offensive side of the ball it was clear as day that Allen should have been named the starter at the beginning of training camp.
Think about what that fool McD tried to do here. He didn't want to hand Allen the job (we had a process don't you now) so he created a fake competition between Allen & Peterman which he allowed Peterman to win. I guess McD was trying to show that high 1st round pick Allen that you earn the job not have it handed to you. You know in the same way he showed Cook that if you fumble the ball you don't get back on the field for a few series. The problem was that Peterman wasn't some grizzled vet who knew how to play QB he was a SECOND YEAR player whose previous start had resulted in his throwing a record FIVE INT's in the first half. Yea this is the guy McD decided to start over his lottery #1 pick. Please.
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1 minute ago, HardyBoy said:
I agree their plan fell apart, I don't think anyone has ever said anything different.
I won't agree that McD had nothing to do with the development plan for Allen...again read that article I shared about JP Losman and the quote where they were blitzing JP in his first practice like crazy...that was the former Assistant GM saying he was confused by the approach because it was not the right way to develop a rookie qb.
Everything they did as a team those first few years in practice once Allen was named the starter had a huge component of developing Josh Allen. McD was the architect of that...to say otherwise or to say McD didn't have a huge positive part in building the space and culture in which Allen could develop and formulating a plan in which his coordinator and position coach and the player himself could maximize that development is straight up ignorant and silly
As I see it McD/Bean:
* Botched Allen's rookie season. Allen succeeded in spite of them.
* In Allen's 2nd season McD/Bean tried to cut corners in rebuilding their offense while continuing to throw resources at the D. Signing Morse was the best thing they did but the rest of the signings and draft capitol used were hardly big time. And no, Brown/Beasley were not splash signings they were smart pick ups that elevated what had been the worst WR group in the NFL but they were hardly big time moves giving Allen top of the line WR's.
* In Allen's 3rd season McD/Bean finally made a splash signing on offense to help their young franchise QB by signing Diggs. This not only helped Allen to burst into the elite ranks of QBs but the Bills made it all the way to the AFC championship game. And they did this on the strength of their offense NOT their D.
* In Allen's 4th & 5th seasons the Bills reverted to the bargain basement approach in constructing an offense as they continued to lavish FA money & draft picks on their D. After coaching malpractice wasted the otherworldly elite play of Allen in 2021 and their cheap ass efforts to build an O line resulted in the Bills having one of the worst lines in the NFL by the end of the 2022 season we had two more years of elite QB play wasted by Bean/McD.
* In Allen's 6th year they finally threw some draft capitol at the offense and I suspect we'll be happy with Kincaid & Torrens for years to come. But for the Bills SB window it was to little to late.
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6 minutes ago, JohnNord said:
It’s not working for a 6-5 Houston Texans led by a former DC from San FranLet's give it a couple of years okay? Like Allen, Stroud may be so good he can hide some of the issues with having a defensive minded coach. Or maybe the former D coordinator for SF spent enough time with Shannahan to have some of that magic rub off.
But I stand by my opinion here:
* McD is not right for the job because defensive minded coaches will waste the talents of elite QB's
* The Bills organization, led by McD/Bean has not properly invested in the offense while over investing in the defense.
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Just now, HardyBoy said:
Allen wasn't supposed to play, they wanted him to sit a year...they tore the offense down because they were doing a rebuild. AJ was supposed to be that player, he didn't pan out.
I'm so confused by this post, the plan was to give Allen a redshirt year and not have him play behind that line with those weapons.
And whose fault was it that McCarron didn't pan out? Down here in Cincy, Bengal fans were happy AJ was signed as they thought he deserved a chance to start somewhere. And the comments made by AJ and his Bengal teammates was that he was going to Buffalo to win the starting job not babysit a rookie 1st round pick. There was nothing about McCarrons age, NFL history or attitude that suggested he would be right for that role.
And as Mike Tyson famously said "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth".
If as you say their plan was to "red shirt" Allen how did that go? Can we at least agree that their "plan" fell apart and it was Allen & DaBoll not Bean/McD who made lemonade out of a bunch of lemons?
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1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:
Again not saying he doesn’t need to be canned if we miss the playoffs.
I’m trying to point out his shortcomings are common and the 2024 coaching pool looks thin.
Giving Beane/McD one more season and hire a new HC/GM in 2025 may be a better longterm move.
The issue for me is that McD is a defensive minded coach and that is not working in the NFL today. An average offensive minded coach would do more with Allen and company then McD has done.
If Pegula isn't going to fire McD if he misses the playoffs, and I'm skeptical of the timing of this bit of news that he isn't, he must insist on a complete overhaul in how the Bills organization looks at their defense & offense. For the next couple of years the O must get the lions share of FA signings and draft picks. If the Bills don't do at least this then we will become the Chargers.
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3 hours ago, HardyBoy said:
The plan was always to sit Allen his first year, just like Mahommes sat, they didn't want him to play a single snap...Kolb getting injured and retiring really screwed up the plan and when Peterman flamed out miserably they didn't have a choice.
Stroud is a significantly more pro ready prospect who had received top level coaching in college and I would imagine high school...you're not making sense, and I mean that in a way that I want you to be making sense so we can have a meaningful conversation about this...lol, though with the Von news, my guess is this convo is going back burner big time
That doesn't change the fact that McD/Dean completely screwed up Allen's rookie year:
* Started Peterman over Allen - great confidence builder there.
* Didn't give Allen very many 1st team reps during training camp & preseason games - yea that had him ready to be inserted as the starter in week 2.
* Tore the offense down and had arguably the worst collection of talent on the offensive side of the ball of any team in 2018 - they didn't just throw Allen to the wolves they tied his hands and feet together before tossing him out.
* They didn't bring in a veteran QB to mentor Allen until half way through the season. I guess Bean/McD thought McCarron would fill that role but nobody told A.J.
That Allen survived and at times shined his rookie year convinced me he was the guy. But the idea that Bean/McD deserve credit for creating an environment Allen could succeed in is misplaced IMO.
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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:
And no one's talking about the rain. That was tough weather to play football in.
Which makes the 59 yard FG AND Allen's play all the more impressive.
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For the record I'm waiting until ALL the information comes out here. These kinds of charges are fake all to often for me to be comfortable passing judgement.
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11 minutes ago, ALLinALLEN said:
We're going to be the Lions and have to trade Allen to a superbowl contender so we can see him win arent we?
I joke but were halfway there in years....
It's a joke with a ring of truth attached.
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Just now, HardyBoy said:
They developed Allen into the player he is today and Losman probably should be talked about in the same breath as Allen, and definitely as a cautionary tale.
First and foremost Allen developed himself into the player he is today. I know this goes against the "gone Hollywood" narrative but the guy has made his own way to the top of the QB world. It was Allen who chose not to give up and enroll in a community college when no D1 ofers were on the table; it was Allen who made the smart choice of going to Wyoming; It was Allen who then made the choice to work out with Palmer.
Next, DaBoll gets a lot of credit for Allen becoming the QB he is today. You know who else should get more credit then Bean/McD for developing Allen his first two years? The people of Buffalo & Bills Mafia. The atmosphere in Buffalo was perfect for a guy like Allen. And he Buffalo community enthusiastically embraced the young QB which had to help him through those first 2 tough years.
When I look back at 2018 & 2019 it's hard for me to see how the Bills did much to develop Allen. He was basically thrown to the wolves by Bean/McD. Fortunately between Allen and DaBoll he was able to float and then swim.
* He wasn't named the starter as a rookie and didn't get a lot of 1st team reps in training camp & the preseason games. Allen saw Peterman, the worst QB to start games in NFL history, get the nod over him. How many guys would have lost confidence seeing that happen? Then Petermann predictably sucked and Allen is thrust into the starting job week 2.
* Of course Bean/McD not expecting their rookie to play much in year 1 eviscerate the offense as part of a rebuild. Do you remember who Allen was playing with his rookie season?
* In 2019 Bean/McD took the bargain basement path with their new QB. Morse was a solid if not risky signing but no one is going to call Brown & Beasley splash offensive signings.
* It wasn't until 2020 when Bean/McD FINALLY made a big time move to support Allen on the offense by signing Diggs. But that was it until 2023 when they used a 1st round draft pick to take Kincaid. ONE splash offensive FA signing/draft pick over Allen's first 5 seasons. ONE!
The narrative that the Bills organization developed Allen is just not supported by the evidence.
19 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:Regardless and we agree here, what drives me nuts is how the D has failed almost every time late game & OT along with McD's boneheaded decisions and miscues.
I think it's safe to say that the defensive shortcomings seen over the last four playoff seasons are now being seen in the regular season.
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28 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:
No better special powers then you. If Losman was so good another team could have resurrected him.
No head coach goes one year, much less 48 games (first 3 years) withoit a 300 yard passing game. McD accomplished this.
So yes i think Allen could bebfurther ah3ad. Jmho
Losman and Allen should not be named together as Allen is an exponentially better QB.
Say the Bills drafted Baker, Darnold or the Other Josh, today we would be speculating on who was going to replace the coach that replaced McD in 2020.
Meanwhile I suspect Allen on another team not named the Chargers would have a Super Bowl ring or two. Because the only other franchise in football that would have squandered Allen the way the Bills have so far wasted him would have been the Chargers. Because defensive minded head coaches in the current NFL can't get O lines, offensive skill players and QB's right. The Bills success has been in spite of McD and because Allen is really that good.
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2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:
yeah that dumb throw 4th quarter pick to the Eagles was the turning point in the second half for sure.
In what way? Did that INT end the game giving the Eagles the win? Did that INT result in the Eagles going on a scoring run and burying the Bills? What I saw was that Allen came back and led the Bills to the lead with less then 2 minutes left in the game and the D couldn't make it hold up.
This notion that Allen's INT was any kind of turning point in that game is just not supported by the evidence. It was no more a turning point then the dropped TD pass or 2 missed FG's.
In fact if you want to call out the closest thing to a turning point in this game you have to point at the defense allowing the Eagles to march down the field to cut the Bills 24 - 14 lead to 24 - 21 early in the 4th quarter. That got the crowd back into it and fired up the Eagles D. A simple stop by the Bills D giving Allen and the offense the ball back in the 4th quarter with a TEN POINT LEAD likley ends the game.
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32 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:
Why didn't you just reply in his thread instead of starting a new one?
Because for these trolls bashing Allen knows no limits.
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3 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:
Doesn’t matter when you’re constantly turning the ball over. Its impossible to stay consistent and when your not consistent you lose football games. Just like Sunday. Josh interception vs. Philly completely changed the momentum of the game. Philly got the lead and gained confidence.
WRONG. What completely changed the momentum of the game was the defenses inability to stop the Eagles once they got hot. You seem to forget that the Eagles had easily gone down the field to cut the Bills lead from 24 - 14 to 24 - 21. That changed the momentum. Allen's INT after that was a product of his forcing the ball realizing that the D was falling apart again. What's surprising and a testament to Allen's skill is that after falling behind 28 - 24 Allen led the Bills on a TD drive that retook the lead, regained momentum and should have won the game.
You and others are pushing a deeply dishonest take on what happened last Sunday. And you're doing it so you can bash Allen.
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Oh and for the record including all fumble rather then fumbles lost is stupid. Why not include dropped INT's or almost INT's?
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5 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:
He leads the league in turnovers every year. That’s not a coincidence. It’s facts
Just last year Dak threw more INT's then Allen playing in 5 less games.
1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:LMAO you are kidding right? You can google "Josh Allen Interceptions" and find a long list too. And who does that? Turn on any of the mainstream sports shows and podcasts and they are always talking about interceptions.
This is why its pointless to start threads on this board...honestly, prob be my last for a while.
What I find ridiculous is these trolling cretins make you have to defend A BUFFALO BILLS QB who is one of the top 2 QB's in the NFL on a Buffalo Bills message board. What the FREAKING hell is that?
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1 hour ago, uticaclub said:
I had hoped to start my day on a positive note, but instead, I unintentionally ended up pointing out that McDermott has not significantly outcoached anyone in the past seven years. Even when attempting to highlight his successes, it seems to be overshadowed by the fact that Allen played exceptionally well in that game.
Yep, Allen was perfect against NE. Allen saved McD in the playoff game against the Colts as the rest of the team appeared a bit off and the Bills D had almost a complete collapse in the 4th quarter of that game. Against Dallas, Allen WAS the difference.
You make a good point in saying that in none of McD's signature wins did it appear that McD had actually out coached the opponent.
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1 minute ago, zow2 said:
There's one thing separating the Bills with teams like KC and Philly, and it's kind of an intangible. The DNA makeup of the Buffalo Bills does not include the clutch gene. They can compile some of the best offensive numbers the league has ever seen, They have an incredible knockout punch against mediocre teams... and the defense can use smoke and mirrors to be top 5 in all sorts of categories. But the team is not clutch when it counts. and I don't know how that gets fixed.
My guess is that what "clutch" really is in the current NFL is having a high level of offensive self awareness. And this is something you won't get from a defensive minded coach in the same way you do from an offensive minded one.
And what does a high level of offensive self awareness mean:
* First, it's recognizing when you have THAT guy at QB. The Bills have shown that they have this level of offensive self awareness.
* Then once you know you have that guy, Free Agency and the draft are focused against surrounding their elite QB with the best possible talent. The Bills ave FAILED to do this.
* In game situations it's understanding when to press things offensively and knowing when to hold back. This includes when to go for it on 4th down and how to approach end of the half/late game situations. During games the Bills repeatedly show that they lack this level of offensive self awareness.
So what to do? Fire McD and replace him with an offensive minded HC.
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15 hours ago, uticaclub said:
McDermott has run his course, and unless we make a Super Bowl run, his time here is over. But I wanted to remember our good times in the last few years, so let’s talk about some critical victories since we won’t see anymore in his tenure.
1) Cowboys Thanksgiving game (We arrived)
2) Perfect game vs Patriots WC (Dominating Belichick in a playoff game)
3) Indy playoff game (first playoff victory in forever)
4)Clinching the Division against Denver (the division was finally ours
@Steelers on SNF, where we used Renagade against them to clinch a playoff spot, deserves an honorable mention.
And in all those games who shined the brightest among the players? As I recall Allen was formidable in those games.
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2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:
He also took his team to a Super Bowl.
And the key word here is TEAM which includes coaching. I don't know about you but I would trade McD for the Eagles head coach in a heartbeat.
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19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:
Offense definitely bears the bulk of the blame for that loss but that doesn't mean the defense is completely off the hook.
Good counterexample - CJ Stroud threw an INT on each of his final two drives against the Cardinals (3 total INTs on the day). One gave the Cardinals the ball at midfield, the other gave them the ball at their own 20. The Texans defense held and did not give up a TD on either of those drives. And that was against Kyler Murrary, not Zack Wilson.
So yes the defense has some culpability for the Jets loss, just like the offense has some culpability for the Pats loss. It is never 100% the fault of either side.
Also Stroud threw a terrible INT late in the 4th qtr that handed the Bengals an easy TD. But the Texans as a TEAM rose up and bailed Stroud out grabbing a big win in Cincinnati.
The critics of Allen's one INT simply ignore what Chris Simms pointed out: OTHER Bills are allowed to make great plays to bail their QB out and win the game. Like the Eagles kicker who made a 59 yard FG in a rain storm.
Attaching ALL the responsibility to Allen is insane and leaves me scratching my head.
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2 hours ago, Dopey said:
He also threw a pick that gave philly the ball at our 25 yd line that led to a TD, in the 4th qtr. That TD gave them the lead. He's been putting the defense in a bad spot way too often. It's not just his year. It's happening way too much. This failure is a team effort, Josh included. Since the win over Miami he's thrown an int. in 8 straight games. That Int. in the philly game was killer. He literally lost the first Jets game. By himself. Our "best player" cannot lead the league in turnovers and be absolved of any blame.
This is bat feces crazy talk. The suggestion that the INT against the Eagles was a killer when Allen drove the Bills down for what should have been the winning TD in the last 2 minutes is beyond stupid.
I guess by responding to you I'm feeding the trolls but damn there are a lot of trolls on 2BD recently.
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TNF: Seattle at Dallas
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by CincyBillsFan
The Bengal's, The Cowboys & Seattle have an embarrassment of riches at WR. Then you go to KC and you have a great O line and the NFL's best offensive mind. The Eagles also have a great O line, RB's & Receivers. Ditto for the Dolphins at play maker and the 49's have the best overall talent on offense in the NFL.
It's clear that over the last few years the Bills have fallen further and further behind their peer SB competition with respect to O line and offensive play makers. Not sure how anybody could debate this.