CincyBillsFan

Is it me or has every run audible Rosen made at the LOS resulted in either no gain or a loss?

Can we all agree that Fitzgerald is a far better receiver today then KB is? It's clear that he's Rosen's security blanket.

This is a good example of why you have to be careful with stats. Rosen got a TD pass on a nice throw but during that drive the Broncos dropped 2 INT's. Again, I'm not seeing anything tonight that would suggest that Rosen is ahead of Allen.

It's inevitable that the two will be compared. And when you have hundreds (or is it thousands) of posts on this message board arguing that the Bills should have drafted Rosen over Allen what else would you expect?

If I was an Arizona Cards fan this is what would have me worried. Say what you will about Allen and his struggles he's never thrown the fits I've seen Rosen throw in the 1st half tonight. Not a good look IMO.

Okay when it mattered Rosen was 8/17 for 60 yards and with 2 INT's. His completion percentage is under 50% with less then 3.5 yards and attempt. The reason I post these stats is that you have to assume Denver will go into a big time prevent defense and that Rosen will have much better stats.

Great catch. This guy is a tool and I guess tools are going to tool.

Fair to say that Rosen is flustered. Missed an open guy badly and is clearly feeling the heat of the pass rush. Almost had another pick 6 on that weak side line pass.

Rookie QB's on bad offensive teams equals bad QB play. I agree with you about Allen having the "it" factor. In a couple of years when both Josh's are doing well that may be the point of difference.

Look for Rosen's numbers to improve as Denver goes into a prevent defense.

If you look at the Cleveland versus Chargers game, Mayfield had about exactly the same amount of success that Allen did.

I wanted Allen over Rosen. But frankly even after this entire season you're not going to know which one of these guys was the better pick. For sure we can't judge them game to game. The one thing we can say is that both QB's have struggled as would be expected for rookies playing on poor offenses. I will say that Rosen seems to have better skill position talent surrounding him then Allen does.

I was born in Rochester and slowly became a Bills fan by osmosis on Sunday afternoons. What cemented it for me was when I was 10 my dad & a couple of the other fathers in our neighborhood took us kids on a road trip to see a game at the Rock Pile. As a kid growing up in Rochester I thought of Buffalo as a far away place where you went on vacation to see the zoo or Niagara Falls! Anyway the game we saw was against the Boston Patriots and even though OJ didn't play that day the Bills won the game and I was hooked. I attended a few more games during junior high & high school and have to admit that with the Bills being awful I also rooted for the KC Chiefs who won the Super Bowl in 1970. But OJ's amazing 2000 yard season in 1974 brought me back into the fold and returned me to football monogamy. One game I remember while still in high school was a trip to Rich Stadium to watch the Bills play the Vikings. It was a massive snow storm and I got to see a couple of NFL TD records set by OJ & Fran Tarkenton. The Bills lost but what stuck in my mind was the constant barrage of snowballs that were flying out of the stands and crashing on top of the Vikings sideline. I mean it was HUNDREDS of snow balls constantly falling among the Viking players & coaches. We were seated in the open end zone high up and so our view of this snow ball Armageddon was surrealistic. Even as a HS kid I knew it was wrong yet there was a certain beauty to it all as the snow balls rose up from the stands and then descended in a graceful arc to smash into the Vikings bench. At that point a reality hit me as a Bills fan - win or lose, Bills games could still be a blast! I guess my favorite memory was when the Bills ended the Miami winning streak at Rich Stadium on opening day of the 1980 season. By that time I was in college at UB and as I recall the weather was beautiful with the sun out and it actually being hot. As college students attending the game and taking full advantage of the tail gating the game was a blur but I do remember that the Bills kept turning the ball over as if some weird curse was in play. Then they got 2 TD's in the 4th quarter to win and the fans stormed the field and tore down the goal posts. I guess this is where the term PANDEMONIUM to describe a Bills game got started? If not, it should have! And of course the super bowl run was amazing. At the time it left a bitter taste in my mouth but over the years I've come to realize the greatness of the achievement. No one will ever again go to 4 straight Super Bowls. No one.

Good questions: * Among the many sins committed by the Bills organization with respect to bringing a raw, rookie QB on board was their failure to get him a good TE. Watching the young QB's play on any given Sunday and you can't help but be struck at how critical the TE is to their success. TE's are a young QB's security blanket - they're usually close to the LOS for a pass; they're a big target that is easily seen and the good ones have great hands. Now look what we've given Allen to work with. * Kyle Williams can play as long as he wants. The guy shows great effort & skill on every down. He's a less zany version of Fred Smerlas. * I would get Allen the BEST veteran TE and the best veteran slot receiver available in FA. I would use the draft to bring in a downfield receiver to compliment Zay.

Your YAC comment is spot on. I think back to the quick pass he made to Bengimen in the flat after Allen made an audible. How many times do you see a big WR shrug off the tackle of a DB coming in fast and gain another 10 - 15 yards Not to mention KB had 50 pounds on that DB. The throw that came back on the illegal formation was a thing of beauty as you noted. First he got away from the best pass rusher in football and 2nd the pass was perfect. Allen still has a lot to work on to get better but it's clear that he's showing steady improvement. The FACT that he has played against the best defenses of the 4 rookie QB's is a big deal and has impacted his development relative to those other guys.

Agree 100%. Now that the Bills are entering the part of their schedule where they're taking on teams with poorer defenses it would have been nice to see how Allen did. As others have pointed out Allen has faced the toughest defenses of the 4 rookie QB's to date.

Great stuff. Thanks for taking the time to do this. My take from the video clips: * Allen has a lot of things to work on as you would expect. * My first impression from watching the game that Allen threw the ball well seems confirmed. IMO the most impressive throw was the one called back by penalty. By all rights he should have been sacked on that play and even as he scrambled to his left the ONLY WR open downfield was KB and he threw nearly a perfect pass to hit him. That play would have been a big momentum changer if it had stood IMO. * Looking at the clips here I don't see anyone running open more then 10 yards the field. Clay was open on the 1st play but that was about 8 yards and McCoy was open on the helter skelter play but beyond that it seemed like our guys were covered.

Bingo. I'm also curious as to why people seem to discount the enormous difference a year can make in a QB's development?

This, and the fact that he has the weakest offensive supporting cast of the 4 rookie QB's, is the critical piece of information in understanding why Allen is the least impressive of the 4 rookies. To take it a step further in the two & half games Rosen has played in he has faced the #7, #12 & #17 defenses. Darnold has had it even easier facing the #2, #18, #23, #25, #27 & #28 ranked defenses! Sure, playing Buffalo helped the defenses out but with 6 games in the bag the sample size is big enough to say with confidence that Allen has faced the toughest defensive competition of the little three rookies (we can all admit that Mayfield was a step above the other 3).

You make a good point about Mahomes and his decision making. Like any very young QB he is going to have some mental lapses but clearly if I was a KC fan I would be very excited about the future with this guy. This is the 3d KC game I've seen this year and the offensive talent that the Chiefs have assembled around Mahomes is impressive.

Mahomes is fantastic - no question about it. But that WR was WIDE open. In fact think about how many times tonight you've seen a receiver running free. Then think about the Bills games this season and I can't remember a single time that one of our guys was this open more then 20 yards downfield. They call them play makers for a reason. And we don't have them.

Some random thoughts on Allen as I read this thread: * Didn't Arizona make a big push to move up and take Allen over Rosen? * The notion that Allen should have dropped into the 3rd or 4th round seems crazy to me. * The Bills had a shot at two of the top 4 QB's unless you think we should have moved up ahead of the Jets to grab Darnold (which would have cost us a ton). And I've yet to see anything that makes me think Rosen would have been a better pick then Allen. Sure Rosen is ahead of Allen but his upside is way below Allen's. * Like others have said, it would have been ideal for Allen to sit at least half the season. But that's water under the bridge now. Allen became the starter in week 2 and must now take his lumps and remain the starter for better or worse. To bench him for ANY reason other then injury would set his development back. * I keep hearing folks talk about all these other QB's throwing for big yardage while the Bills & Allen struggle to top 100 yards. And I find this frustrating to. But what I see in these other games are RB's, TE's and WR's getting open all over the field. And I don't need a 360 degree review of every pass play to see how open they are. It's right there on my sort of big screen TV and you just don't see that when watching a Bills game. Sure, Allen owns some of this but with the exception of Shady how many of our skill players would see the field on almost any other NFL team?

This is how I see it to. Reading this thread I hear a lot of folks claiming he's not accurate but except for his first pass his accuracy seemed fine. The throw across his body into the middle of the field to Shady was actually quite good. Sure, most times this would be an ill advised pass but McCoy was wide open and ball was delivered with surprising velocity given the contortions Allen was in when he let the pass go. And the problem with the short passes today wasn't Allen's accuracy it was that the Texans seemed to anticipate those plays. They blew up a couple of screens and it was clear that they wanted to force us to throw down field. The idea that the Bills should draft another QB with their 1st round pick next year is insane. Such a move would set the franchise back years.

First post from a LONG time (I attended games at the rock pile) Bills fan and lurker at this site. IMO Allen is making steady progress. A difficult & loud road game against a team with a two stud pass rushers had me expecting a series of disasters. I figured Allen would have a day like Watson had - a bunch of sacks and multiple TO's. Instead I saw some nice throws and evidence of the athletic improvisation that I believe will become more common as the season moves on. The deep pass to Benjamin after Allen escaped the pass rush was a thing of beauty. His only bad throw was his first of the day when he threw it at Clay's feet. Allen also continues to make critical plays with his feet like the 3rd & 10 red zone conversion leading to the 1st FG. Allen is a work in progress. At a minimum he should be given 2 years to develop and next year the organization must surround him with NFL caliber skill position players. The fact that Allen does not have a comfort blanket WR or TE that he can throw to in a pinch is an organizational sin when trying to develop a rookie QB. That must be corrected before next season.