CincyBillsFan

In fact I just looked up the stats and Goff was sacked 4 times and was hit 12 more times on 38 passes - which is getting walloped once on every three throws. Compare that to Brady who was hit like once on 90 throws going into the SB. In fact you could argue that Brady didn't exactly set the world on fire likely due to the ability of the Rams to make things uncomfortable for him in the pocket. Tying this all back to Buffalo - It's interesting to point out that Allen was under the type of pressure Goff faced yesterday in EVERY SINGLY game he played. If the Bills can improve the O-line to at least let Allen get a little bit more comfortable in the pocket the sky's the limit as to what we might see next season.

I'm a little surprised that folks are saying Goff had a lot of time to throw yesterday. My observations, possibly influenced by a beer & food coma, was that Goff was harassed all game by the NE defense. In fact I kept thinking that this is what QB's look like when the pocket collapses in their face and they're running for their life. Funny how that all important metric called ACCURACY seems to flounder when D-line man are knocking a QB down.

To be fair I would add Goff's O-line to that list to - they didn't exactly do their jobs given that the LA QB was hit on 40% of his drop-backs! Ditto for the LA O coaches who didn't exactly adjust to what NE was doing to them.

At this point NEITHER Goff or Mcvay is overrated. They just played in a Superbowl which is something that more then 90% of the NFL's QB's & coaches weren't able to do this year. The fact that they lost the Super Bowl doesn't really tell us much about how good both these guys are. And as Buffalo Bill's fans we should understand this better then most people. IMO it wasn't Gurly's "injury" that messed with the Rams offense but the loss of their outstanding slot receiver Cupp. Since this guy went down it seemed like the Rams O lost their rhythm.

Doesn't matter. If I wasted time worrying about every move the Bills have made the last 10 years on draft day I would be crying in my beer over the fact that the Bills failed to draft a team of pro-bowl players! I sort of get the "wrong Josh" obsession as the Bills had a bimodal choice to make between Josh Allen & Josh Rosen last year. But in the year that Mahomes came out? Whose to say if the Bills stayed pat in that draft they would have picked him? I don't remember a lot of the "experts" predicting that Mahomes would be an MVP QB in year 2 of his career. If there were he would have been the #1 pick in the 2017 draft.

Wings Mac & Cheese Cincinnati style chili pizza Montgomery Inn Ribs Wings Beer Chips Dip Artichokes & other goodies from Jungle Jim's International Market

Two things that I remember most during my college years attending Bills games at the newly opened Rich Stadium in the 1970's: * Women invading the men's room to take over the stalls as their kidney's overcame any disgust they might have harbored and * diehard fans not wanting to miss the 2nd half KO peeing in cups and setting them on the floor.

Congratulations, Mahomes had an awesome year. Of course it has nothing to do with the Bills except that KC is in the same conference. I do look forward to a couple of Bills versus KC layoff games featuring the two best young QB's in the league.

I love both hires - so what if they're young. For crying out loud the LA Rams are being coached by a toddler and they're in the Super Bowl! But I especially liked the Dorsey hire. My guess is this guy is looking forward to developing Allen as the kid has everything Newton had but as others have noted is a lot more coachable and willing to learn. As others have pointed out this is Dorsey's job to ride right to OC. And I like when an assistant coach has that kind of professional motivation to succeed. He'll work just as hard as Allen, which is saying something, in the off season to get this right. Should be fun to see the energy these two young coaches bring to the offense.

It's obvious that great minds think alike!

Super 3: Jets 16 - 7 over Baltimore. Younger posters can't appreciate how intense the old NFL/AFL rivalry was. It was pure hatred and seeing Joe Willie knock the arrogant NFL on it's ass for the first time was priceless. Super Bowl 4: KC 23 - 7 over the Vikings. Like I said there was pure hatred between the NFL & AFL and by the time this game rolled around the arrogant NFL panty waists were saying the Jets win was a one off fluke. Well KC shoved that notion right down the throat of the NFL. After that the merger happened and football hasn't been as fun since. Super Bowl 25: Giants 20 - 19 over the Bills. Do people remember how exciting it was leading up to the SB that year? We were in the big game! I remember heading out to the Allen Street bars that Saturday night and the atmosphere in the city was ELECTRIC. Yes it was a devastating loss and people blame Norwood but IMO the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the Bills coaches. Had they given Thurman the ball 25 times he would have been MVP and the Bills would have won that game by 17 points. Super Bowl 28: Dallas 30 - 13 over the Bills. For one glorious half it looked like we might not only get that monkey off our backs but then throw it to the ground and stomp it dead. But it wasn't to be. Instead of ending one of pro footballs most amazing runs with a SB win the Bills crawled back to Buffalo in ignominy. Today folks will point to Thurman's fumble as the pivotal moment when we lost that game but not me. I place the blame on Marv Levy's ultra conservative play-calling towards the end of the 1st half with the Bills in the Cowboys red zone leading 10 - 6. We should have been throwing passes into the end zone and trying to go up 17 - 6. What the hell did we have to lose? Instead Marv played it safe and IMO lost us the momentum in that game.

On the face of it aiming only at the numbers on the uniform is dumb given the many different types of passes thrown by NFL caliber QB's. Just off the top of my head it would be profoundly inaccurate (or stupid) for a QB to aim for the numbers of his 6 ft 6 inch WR being guarded by a 5 ft 10 in inch DB in the end zone. I would think throwing the ball up high where his receivers height advantage could be used most effectively is the most ACCURATE pass in that situation. Think about that spectacular pass Allen threw to Foster to convert a 3rd & 13 out of his end zone against Miami in their first meeting. The Throw was a laser beam deliberately put about a foot out of bounds so only Foster could catch it with his HANDS. Aiming a pass for the number on Fosters Jersey would probably have resulted in an INT instead of a first down. I would submit that half or more of an NFL's QB's throws are not intended for the numbers on the jersey.

I tend to side with those saying we should wait & see about Clay. His contract is not going to break the bank this year and even if someone (either Crooms or a FA) move ahead of him on the depth chart you still need at least 2 solid TE's. If Allen & Clay work together through training camp and the pre-season we may be surprised at how well they start to click. There were a couple of issues in play this year that limited Allen & Clay's effectiveness: * Clay was hurt and not playing at 100% * As a rookie Allen was less comfortable throwing check down passes which will cost a TE catches. This should improve next year as Allen & his TE's work with the offensive staff to figure how best to deploy the dump off receivers when Allen himself can gain 20 yards running the ball. My guess is they'll work to spread things out a bit when the pocket breaks down allowing Allen the option of running or passing by keeping his running lanes open. You saw this a bit at the end of the season where on some of Allen's big runs, Clay was about 20 yards along side him and Allen would fake a throw to him freezing the safety. Check out the Miami game for this. * Allen did not take a lot of snaps with the first team O during pre-season. IMO this really limited Allen's timing & anticipation with his receivers and timing definitely seemed to be an issue between Allen & Clay. This can be worked on and it would likely be fixed this off season. * I suspect that Clay and the other TE's were a lot more involved in pass protection then normal due to the Bill's O-line struggling at times. Quicker throws and a better pass blocking O-line should allow more early TE releases on pass plays which will lead to more 10 - 15 yard completions right over the middle. One thing I noticed about Clay that impressed me was that even in his last game the guy was excited when the Bills made a good play. He never looked like a guy just going through the motions. I remember how KB seemed not to care but Clay always seemed to care. It just feels to me like Clay is a team player and the Bills are probably better with him on the squad then not on it.

To say this is a tad premature is like saying it get's cold in the winter in Buffalo. I mean seriously can't this guy go cover some basketball? We've yet to have the draft and the Bills are loaded down with enough cap space to make King Midas jealous. And last I looked we haven't even signed a first free agent yet. Is it me or does espn get leas relevant every year?

While the NFC SB streak versus the AFC at that time is interesting IMO it is not very relevant to the question of the Buffalo Bills 4 straight SB losses. My point was that it didn't matter whether the AFC was strong or weak during this time as the Bills were loaded with future HOF players and would have been an elite team in the NFC during that 4 year stretch. I again point to the fact that during those 4 years the Bills/NFC regular season record, which equaled a full season of play, was 14 - 2. This included beating a number of NFC playoff/SB teams. In fact it's not hard to project that had the Bills actually needed to win those 2 season ending losses against NFC teams they might have gone 16 - 0 during that period! Remember how in one of those losses the bills SECOND TEAM lost in OT to a Detroit squad that needed to win the game to make the playoffs. In fact given the Bills record against NFC teams during their SB run I believe they may have gone to at least 3 SB's in a row (1990, 1991, 1992 seasons). How effective do you think Dallas & Washington would have been playing at Rich Stadium in January for the NFC championship game?

I remember arguing with a friend that the Bills going to 4 straight SB's was an amazing achievement. He countered that it wasn't such a big deal because they played in the weaker AFC. That bothered me so I did a little research and proved my friend wrong and showed just how WEIRD those Bills SB teams were. The bottom line is that had the Bills played in the NFC they still might have gone to 4 straight SB's and lost every one of them to an AFC team - my proof: During the 4 years the Bills went to the SB their inter-conference record against the NFC was an astonishing 14 - 2! And this included beating a lot of NFC playoff teams! This also included beating, ON THE ROAD, two teams (Giants & Cowboys) that would go on and beat them that year in the SB! Looking even closer the two losses were season ending games in which Buffalo HAD ALREADY clinched the home field advantage throughout the playoffs! The Bills rested many of their starters in what were to Buffalo, meaningless games. The ONLY plausible explanation for the Bills SB losses is that someone put a hex on them.

This is a good observation WideNine and let me provide another: remember against the LA Chargers when Allen threw that horrible wheel route pass to Demarco who had to make a circus catch to grab it? He was wide open and people rightly criticized Allen for that pass and have used it as an example of his "inaccuracy". Now fast forward to after Allen returned from injury and was playing the Dolphins in Miami. Remember how he had perfect touch on the same pass to Demarco on the wheel route that went for 30+ yards. That's what I like about the kid - he learns from his mistakes and improves on what he doesn't do so well.

I'm also one of those that remember Lamonica which means I'm getting old. But that was a TRADE. The Bills had Lamonica on the team with a perfect opportunity to properly evaluate him. In the case of Mahomes we're talking about the Bill's making a trade with KC for draft position. Did the Bills even know that the Chiefs were taking Mahomes? And during the 2017 draft period it was hardly unanimous that Mahomes was going to be a good NFL QB. Even the Chiefs thought he needed work as they created a situation where Mahomes, unlike this years Rookie QB class, was not expected to start and had the luxury of sitting him behind Smith. But your Lamonica point makes me wonder if the Bills even got that one wrong. I mean his fame as a QB was that he was the mad bomber who threw the long ball very well. And in Oakland he had Warren Wells & Fred Bilitnikoff to throw the ball to. Had the Bills kept Lamonica are we all that sure he would have had near the success in buffalo that he had in Oakland?

I think the more relevant question is whether you have watched where MOST of his passes ended up.

This tells me that in addition to a commendable spirit of wanting to constantly improve Allen watched the playoff games and desperately wanted to be out there with the Bills. This guy is going to do whatever it takes to get Buffalo over the hump next season. And for the record some of the best position coaches in Football are the guys who ALMOST made it. Like others have noted, for the life of me how is this a bad thing? These naysayers appear to want Allen to just give up and self declare that he's a bust. That way we can move up in this years draft and take Haskins or the OK baseball player. It just seems nuts to me and an awful way to root for a team.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a topic of discussion I'm saying that in my somewhat limited experience visiting other NFL message boards and living in another NFL city the obsession shown over the Bills not selecting Mahomes seems excessive. I mean how many threads are we going to have on this topic? And it's true that Mahomes would have been the #1 pick back in 2017 if they knew then what we know today BUT you can say that about EVERY draft. I mean just off the top of my head I bet McCaffrey would have been picked ahead of Forenette if they knew in 2017 what we know today about both RB's. And I bet the Bengals would have picked anyone BUT WR Jon Ross at #9 knowing what they do today.

I also think the legacy of winning 4 straight AFC championships is safe. The Pat's remind me of the 1993 Bills in that they're clearly sliding but have one last gasp left in their dynasty. I think the fall off in the Pat's and particularly in Brady's play next year will be dramatic. Best I see for the Patriots is 10 - 6 and a wild card next year.

A bit selective in the stats there C.Biscuit. Let's look at Mahomes full stats for that 2017 game: 22 - 34 - 284 yards - 0 TDs - 1 INT 7 carries for 10 yards, no TD's Not bad but nothing to write home about either, particularly given the talent around Mahomes in that last game in 2017. I would argue that Allen had at least 4 games with TOTAL stats equal to or better then that. I agree that other fan bases would look at this thread and all the other Mahomes threads on a Buffalo Bills message board and think we're lunatics but not for the reason you think. They would think it's nuts that so many Bills fans obsess over Mahomes. They would wonder why 2 years after the 2017 draft we are still crying about not taking Mahomes or even weirder fantasizing about what might have been if Mahones was wearing a Bills uniform. And I say again that if I had a choice between exchanging Allen for Mahomes OR keeping Allen and getting Hill & Kelce I would keep Allen & take Kelce/Hill in a heartbeat.

Good take. People keep forgetting that an honest appraisal of Allen after his rookie year would show that he was a better QB then what Mahmes showed after his rookie season. Now the main reason for that was that Allen got the opportunity to play most of his rookie season and Mahomes did not but the conclusion remains the same: Allen in his rookie year showed more then Mahomes did in his, particularly in Allen's last 6 games. Now do I think Allen will match Mahomes in his 2nd year? No I don't because I don't see any way that the Bills can replicate the offensive talent that Mahomes had at his disposal. However I do believe that at the end of next year Allen will not be very far behind Mahomes in his QB play. And I suspect that absent injury these two will be slugging it out over the next 10 years to see who is the best QB in the AFC (along with Sam Dranold).

The Bills PR department isn't spinning anything. It's fans who trust what they saw with their own eyes. A least for me my optimism is based on the outstanding progress made by Allen over the course of the season, the Bills solid foundation of a defense and a whole lot of CAP money.