CincyBillsFan

I suspect the Bills could win games with Barkley at QB if they had a Leonard Fournette or Christian McCaffrey in the backfield. The more I think about it the more alarming the Bill's shortcomings at the offensive skill positions becomes. This is a problem for two reasons: 1) It limits our offense which in turn costs us winnable games. 2) Makes it much more difficult to accurately evaluate our young QB. The most urgent need on offense at this stage in the Bill's rebuild is NOT another QB. Barkley is a fine back-up option. Our most urgent need is to upgrade our offensive personnel which starts at Tackle, TE, WR & RB.

I'm not tied to Allen anymore then I was tied to Daryl Lamonica back in the 1960's! I was just a kid back then but I agreed with my uncle over my dad that Lamonica was the guy and that Kemp was past his prime. I can still remember the heated arguments between my dad and uncle on this topic. When I watch Allen play today I'm reminded of Lamonica. I just think he is the right guy for Buffalo. So I look for the positive in his play and defend him here on 2BD against what I think is unfair criticism. I'm "tied" to Allen only to the extent that if he doesn't work out the Bills are in QB purgatory for another few years. As a Bills fan you have to want Allen to succeed. It's the shortest path to this franchise becoming relevant again and seriously contending for a Super Bowl win. You seem to equate defending Allen against unfair and at times ignorant criticisms to somehow being "tied to him". I say hogwash to that. I defend Allen on here because I truly believe, based on his performance to date, that he is the guy. When I no longer believe that I'll be as ready as you to switch to our next best option.

Interesting question. I won't deny I'm rooting for Allen to succeed with the Bills. But since I've been an avid Bills fan for DECADES before Allen was even born I have to go with being a Bills fan first. Now I have a serious question for you. What makes you think that being a Bills fan AND an Allen fan at this point in time isn't one and the same thing? If Allen doesn't pan out the Bills are screwed, at least for the next couple of years. As far as claiming that what we've seen isn't good enough, well that's your opinion. And IMO that line of thinking is NOT backed up by the facts. The first FACT being that the Bills are 6 - 3 with Allen at QB. So yes they are winning with Allen. You seem to be taking a fantasy football approach to the Bills. I get that in FF you can add & subtract QB's like picking a shirt in the morning. If the QB you picked isn't working out, you can just plug in a new one. But that's not how it works in the NFL. So another serious question: what do you want to do: * Complain about Allen not being Mahomes or Russel Wilson? Tell us how much Allen sucks and what he does wrong? How does that help the Bills win games? * Or do you want to bench Allen and start Barkley? Give Barkley a couple of games and if the O doesn't produce throw Allen back in there. Is that what you want to do? If it works in FF it should work in the real NFL. Sorry, the Bills have been there and done that before and it hasn't worked. * Or are you suggesting that we go get Teddy Bridgewater or Andy Dalton in the off season and sink 25 million into them? Of course do that and you can say goodby to signing a stud Tackle or pass rusher. But hey all we need to win is a better QB. And we'll still have Allen on the bench for two more years so if our FA QB doesn't pan out we can throw Allen back out there and maybe this time he'll get it? * Or are you suggesting that we draft a QB next year in the 2nd or 3rd round? Maybe we can get lucky and pick the next Drew Brees or Arron Rogers! Of course we would have to give Allen and the rookie equal snaps in pre-season but that shouldn't mess things up. Right? It seems to me that if you want the Bills to win games you have to root for Allen to become a top notch QB. Rooting for Allen is pretty much the same as rooting for the Bills.

One thing that drives me crazy about threads like this are the posters who throw out Lamar Jackson as if he would make any difference in Buffalo. To me it's obvious that had we traded down and taken Jackson it would be a complete cluster frack trying to fit him into a conventional NFL offense. There is ZERO evidence that Buffalo would have done what Baltimore did and redesigned their entire O around a unique QB talent like Jackson. It's pure fantasy to think they would have. It's also a fantasy to think that Jackson could thrive in a conventional offense. Baltimore deserves all the praise in the world for thinking out of the box and taking the risk they did. It's even more impressive in light of the fact that the Ravens were a playoff caliber team when they took this risk. And it has worked. Now the question going forward for Baltimore is whether they can sustain this offense. Can they develop a back-up QB situation that could keep the boat afloat should Jackson get hurt? It's not like a conventional O where your back-up can be any one of dozens of QB's. Jackson is unique and WHEN, not IF, the Ravens face a stretch with Jackson out of the lineup what's the plan? In the case of Buffalo and Allen the question going forward is whether or not Allen is the guy. Allen is a major project and IMO the risk the Bills took in picking Allen was almost as big as the risk the Ravens took with Jackson. And like Baltimore, the Bill's are going to be rewarded for taking this risk. Allen is on the right trajectory and is getting better. We need to stop obsessing over a play here or there and look at the big picture in judging our QB. If you break Allen's "career" into logical blocks: 1) pre-injury 2018; 2) post injury 2018; 3) The first 4 games of 2019; & the 4) The last 5 games of 2019 you can clearly see the impressive improvement in his game. By the end of next year, or sooner, we'll be as happy with Allen as Ravens fans are with Jackson.

Man I'm glad other people are seeing this to. I thought either I was crazy or looking at Allen's throws through fogged up rose colored glasses. But you're 100% right here. On some (yes Allen misses other deep throws) of those deep throws the WR's don't seem to be running the pattern like other NFL wide outs. Think last week with Foster against the Redskins.

I agree 100%! That was a good throw if McKenzie finishes the route. What NFL receiver keeps looking side to side on a pass like that? Talk about having "eyes roaming all over the place". Run the damn route and the ball drops right into his hand. You know where I've seen WR's routinely do that when running a deep route? My backyard on Thanksgiving. That's how bad of a look that was. Allen HAS struggled with the deep ball but I suspect it's not all on Allen.

If we bring in a Minshew like QB can we also bring in a Leonard Fourenett like RB? You see a dominating RB has something to do with the success of a Minshew type QB. As an aside, did you actually watch Minshew his last couple of games? If Allen had a game as bad as Minshew had in London this season 2BD would be in meltdown mode! I live in Cincinnati and have seen Dalton up close. If you want to guarantee 5 more years of EXTREME mediocrity do what you suggest here. And we DON'T have the cap room to spend $25,000,000 on Dalton if we also want a new Tackle and a stud Pass Rusher and either a game breaking WR or RB.

It's more subtle then that. I suspect they've emphasized what they don't want to see happen and Allen has internalized it a bit to much. Like everything there has to be a happy middle where both can happen in a game. The reality is we are way over analyzing a single play. I'm as guilty as the next poster but here we are spending PAGES of posts talking about a flare pass to the flat that gained 6 yards towards the end of the game. This is all just a part of Allen and the offenses learning curve. Allen IS improving AND we're smack dab in the middle of rebuilding our offense. Things will be choppy for the rest of the season and it may cost us a one & out playoff appearance this year but the Bill's brain trust is moving towards bigger, better and more sustainable success in the future.

To be fair this may just be a recognition by the Bill's coaching staff that they don't have the receivers that can win those 50/50 balls. In fact they might tell you that there are NO 50/50 balls with our receiving group and that the best we can hope for are 20/80 balls and those are not worth throwing.

I had the exact same thoughts on both plays.

That's the problem with fans in general and Bill's fans in particular. I get it because we all have some version of football related PTSS after watching the Bills lose 4 straight Super Bowls and then not make the playoffs for 20 straight years. Some of us express it with to much optimism while others descend into to much negativism. But watching last nights game and seeing all the mistakes Jimmy G made and even mistakes made by the likely MVP Russel Wilson and we're just to critical of Allen and we are to obsessive over each & every play the guy makes or doesn't make.

It was the smart throw. It's not like the choice was between gaining 6 yards and 20 yards. It was between 6 yards and 10 yards. In that case you make the throw that gets you out of bounds to stop the clock. You saw the same thing with Wilson last night. He tries to get into a lot of 3rd & 4's because they're easier to convert. In fact I think it's safe to say that on that play most NFL QB's would have chosen to throw to the RB on the sideline.

How do you know it was better? Even if it gets the first down there's no way Beasley gets out of bounds and we're only talking about an extra 5 yards here. The kick that I saw wouldn't have been good from 48 yards either. IMO the BEST decision was to throw the ball ALONG the sidelines to a RB that is your best threat in space. The failure to get out of bounds is what made that a bad play IMO.

I'll bite: I would put all ten coins on Allen. We really have no choice do we? Doing anything other then that AT THIS POINT is the sign of a dysfunctional organization and a guarantee that the Bills will remain on the outside looking in for the next decade at playoff time. And for the record Allen has shown more then enough to justify a continued investment. And in today's NFL and when dealing with a QB that means you have to be ALL IN.

Not to mention that IF Singleterry is the explosive, game breaking RB we think (and hope) he is getting him the ball in space along the sideline is always a good move. I mean wouldn't you want your QB to get the ball on that play to Cook or McCaffrey or Chubbs or Elliot..................................... How many times in that situation do we see NFL RB's make the guy miss or break the tackle and gain another 10 yards? At worst it would have been a 6 yard gain setting up 3rd & 4 and more importantly getting out of bounds to stop the clock.

Some good comments on this thread: * I agree with others that the Bills coaches may be over emphasizing not turning the ball over at the expense of making big plays by being aggressive. On the positive side Allen has learned as he hasn't thrown an INT in 4 straight games and only 1 in 5 games. On the negative side we may be asking Allen to play with one hand tied behind his back. * I think McD's basic premise in emphasizing limiting TO's is that the Bills have an elite defense and the first commandment of the Bills O is to NOT PUT THE D IN A TOUGH SPOT. The problem with this is that our D is not close to being elite. It's a good D but in no way can it take over and dominate a game in the way that elite defenses can. The lack of 3 & outs and forced turnovers is a real limitation. * The reality is that for all intents & purposes McD is saying I'm okay winning games 14 - 7. Well if that's the case you can't B word when your O doesn't score 20 points now can you? * There has to be a sweet spot where Allen and the O take more chances throwing the ball. One INT is not bad if you throw 3 TD's. But then when you look at our skill players who is going to make those great catches we see in every game? Brown runs great routes , gets open and Allen gets him the ball for some nice gains. But how many amazing catches has he made? And who is going to win those 50/50 balls so critical to generating chunk plays? Why would a defense fear our play action pass when we don't have an explosive RB? And while I'm hopeful for Singleterry until he busts one up the middle for a 50 yard gain he AND Gore represent nothing worse then a 10 yard gain if a D misplays the run. We just aren't there yet on Offense. We're in the middle of an offensive rebuild and we'll have to accept that offensive production will be choppy the rest of the season.

Why? They need to get the ball more to Singletery in space. The play was also along the sideline and the Brown's defender made a great play (or Singleterry didn't make a great play) that it gave the RB a decent chance to get out of bounds.

Agree 100%. Watching a replay of the highlights and you can see Allen making some terrific throws for chunk yardage. And let's not forget that his first deep ball was on target and drew a 40 yard pass interference penalty.

They overvalue the 300 yard passing game because they're trying to win Fantasy Football games and it's easy to mistake reality with fantasy as a football fan. I do it every year as a Bills fan when I think that this might be the year we win a Super Bowl!

And we close out the week with the eleventh game won by a QB who didn't get anywhere near 300 yards and had FIVE quarters to do it in.

Yep and that Damn Allen didn't throw two balls directly at Cleveland players. Instead he threw a couple of great passes to get us to the 35 and then when he tried to win the game he wasn't on the same page with Brown.

And that looked like it would have been good from 52 yards - on grass - just saying.

You mean like throw the ball to the opponents players TWICE and count on them dropping the easy INT?

As an aside does anyone think that teams employ lip readers?

And I wouldn't have any problem with that. Just like I would be very happy today had Buffalo beat Cleveland 16 - 12 yesterday!