CincyBillsFan

We'll have to agree to disagree then. YAC is more influenced by skill player talent, O-line mobility and play design/call then by QB. Before Motors big screen play the Bills had attempted 16 screen passes gaining a total of 34 yards. I've seen NOTHING about Allen's ball placement this season that leads me to think it is costing us YAC. What I see are receivers who don't get a lot of separation; Receivers who don't break a lot of tackles and a team that hasn't been able to execute any type of screen pass on a consistent basis. This is what drives YAC IMO.

Actually it's quite common for backup QB's, even rookies, to get thrown into a game and do well. Sometimes they can extend that for a few games. But opposing defenses catch on and the backup starts to flounder because they do NOT IMPROVE over time. Clearly this was the case for Minshew. Did you even watch his last game? Allen has been steadily IMPROVING. Sure it's a bit like the stock market, up & down/up & down, but the trajectory is clearly up. It's at the point that Allen levels off and stops improving that you decide whether he's the guy or not. He doesn't seem close to that point yet. Which is why some of us are excited about the future.

Bingo. I can count on one hand the big YAC plays that Allen has had: last week the 49 yard screen to Motor (first successful screen of the season - chew on that fact); The Knox rumble against Cincinnati; The Beasley big pass play against the Giants; McKenzie's big gain against TN and Motors 28 yard TD against the eagles. A perfect example of what you're saying happened Monday night. Danial Jones had 210 yards passing in over 40 attempts but 90 yards came on just 2 passes: 67 yards came on a screen to Barkley thrown behind the LOS and another 23 yards came on one of the best catches made by a WR this season - the one handed grab by Tate of a ball thrown way behind him. Explosive, talented skill players make a big difference to a QB's stat line.

The bias that these two clowns show is pretty amazing. Makes me think PFF is pretty crappy. They keep saying Allen made more inaccurate throws. Really? Could they tell me which ones? Funny how Allen's fumbles which he's only lost 3, are somehow much worse then say Danial Jones fumbles that I think he's lost 8 of - in 2 fewer games then Allen! Or how about the other Allen in Carolina who fumbles quite a bit when he's sacked? I wish these guys would stop the confirmation bias in their weekly Allen reviews and actually tell me something valuable in how Allen is progressing. I know Allen needs a lot of work and there's plenty of room for improvement. But these tools appear to take it personally that he's playing in the NFL. It's like an affront to their metrics!

Not in the least. No one has beaten us so badly that Allen got to spend the 4th quarter padding his stats against backups playing a prevent defense. Check out Jackson's stat line against KC & Cleveland. Some serious "garbage" time passing yards there. And before you say the Eagles game that wasn't a blow out until late in the 4th quarter. But hey if you're impressed with efforts like Gardner Manshews 309 yard game in the Jags loss to Houston last Sunday, the game in which the Jags only scored 3 points, more power to you.

The biggest lie going around 2BD is that the passing game in the 1990's was so different that you can't compare stats from that decade to 2019. Here's Marino's stats from his SECOND year in the league in the 1980's! 64% completion rate; 5084 yards; 48 TD's & only 17 INT's with 9.4yard per PASS ATTEMPT! If this message board was in play back in the 1980's you would have had people screaming at the top of their lungs that the Bills had screwed up by passing on Marino to take Kelly.

Agreed. I mean that's the 3rd deep ball to an open receiver he's missed. I mean everyone says that it's easy to hit these types of passes.

That's what a productive TE does. Most teams have at least one. Jarwin caught the ball 6 inches off the ground turned and then exploded for the TD. Knox has shown flashes but overall NONE of our TE's have done anything remotely like that play. And while we're on the topic has any Bills WR over the last 2 years made a catch as nice as Tates was?

A couple takeaways from this game: * The Bills/Dallas game is not an automatic loss. * If the 5 - 2 Bills were playing tonight against the Giants and were only up 13 - 12 at half folks on this board would be losing their minds. We would have assumed a cake walk against a bad team with a rookie QB. There are no easy games in the NFL. * Tonight both QB's have missed several deep throws with one being intercepted. I thought it was easy to complete the long ball? * I've heard Allen described by the National Media as a "turnover machine" yet he has what 10 TO's (7 int & 3 lost fumbles) in 8 games while Jones just made his 14th TO in 7 games? * Has a Bills receiver made a catch as good as Tates was in the last 2 seasons?

And while we're on the topic of National Sports Coverage of the Bills we have to stop worrying about it. If the Bills win it will come. Now I know that's easier said then done as we listen intently to these morons bather on in the hope that they might actually mention the Bills or one of our players. But in the end the Bills might get 2 minutes in a 3 hr show! But when you listen to these guys the first thing you begin to understand is just how stupid they are. They're the ultimate front runners, flavor of the moment "experts". Of all of the national guys I like Cowherd the best because he will at least admit he was wrong. But does he know football better then the typical, committed SOBER NFL fan? Hell no. All year he's been saying that the NFC North is the TOUGHEST division in football. Then yesterday we watch them lose all 4 games! The truth is that these guys aren't "experts" but simply sports entertainers. So the only time I get pissed at them is when they stop being entertaining. You know like Dan Patrick most of the week. I check out DP on Monday to get his NFL take but then don't listen again until the next Monday because DP is boring.

I heard the same thing. DP said that he actually watched the entire Bills/Redskins game because of his interest in how Haskins would do. DP said: * That Allen was a bad QB and not a starter in the NFL and at best was a career backup. * One of DP's minions defended Allen and blamed the offensive design saying it looked like it was "25 years old". But this got me to thinking. Regardless of where you are on the Allen front would any knowledgeable person watching yesterdays game conclude Allen sucked and shouldn't be a starter? He had a QB rating of 111; completed 70% of his throws; had one passing & one rushing TD, NO TO's and made several big time throws. The only takeaway on Allen from watching yesterday's game was that the Bills were mimicking the Vikings from 10 days earlier and Allen was simply managing the game in the same way Cousins did in the Vikes 19 - 9 home game win over the Redskins. As others have noted DP hasn't watched any other Bills game this year (or last year I suspect). So IMO this fool is basing his "opinion" on what the analytics guys and some high profile Allen critics are saying. Because nothing in Allen's game yesterday could support a claim that he was at best a backup QB in the NFL.

Case in point were the Bengals & Giants games prior to yesterday's game. Interesting that in all these games Allen & the offense had to bail out the team by scoring a clinching TD in the Giants game, score a comeback TD against the Bengals and yesterday score a clinching TD late. So while I get McDermitt's thinking here and it's worked so far, as the schedule gets harder or fortunes turn against the Bills we're going to lose a couple of games where we took our foot off the gas and didn't put the other team away.

Not just a loss but the Jags only scored 3 points! The 300 yard passing game is probably the most irrelevant milestone in the NFL.

And don't forget to throw in the difference in TE play. We are in the 1st year of an O-line rebuild. We need another tackle & guard and we need to hope that Ford can become a solid guard on the other side.

For them? The answer is yes. But if Jackson goes anywhere else I don't think he's successful. What Harbough and the Ravens were willing to do in support of Jackson's style of QB play was unique. I don't see any other team going to the length that Baltimore did and so far it's worked wonders for the Ravens. But is he the best QB in the 2018 draft? I don't think so. But we won't know for at least 5 more years. Hell it may take 10 years. At this point Jackson is playing best among the 2018 class of QB's. He also has had by far the best situation to come into As an aside you don't think having one of the best O-lines ion the NFL doesn't help Jackson and the offense? You seem to dismiss the idea.

I would say the Ravens have one of the top 5 if not top 3 O-lines in the league.

He's obviously been hitting the bottle in the booth as he just got done telling us that he would run Brady a couple of times a game to keep the other team honest!

I like how the ravens reduce every offensive series into a 10 yard frame. this is smart. Gain 3 yards on 1st down; hit a TE for 4 yards and then convert the 3rd & 3 with a run or pass. Repeat until you score.

Exactly right and again comparing Allen & Jackson for escapability is like comparing apples & oranges. Jackson is extremely shifty with an amazing acceleration. Allen is bigger and uses a combination of strength and surprising athleticism for a big man. If you were to make a highlight video of each players amazing escapes this year it would be very impressive and also very different in appearance.

This is what people should be talking about. Not comparing Allen & Jackson who have entirely different QB styles. Baltimore committed to designing an entire offense around Jackson. The Ravens also had the advantage of starting from a very sound base with an excellent O-line.

Back in the day I hated Conrad Dobler. I thought he was the dirtiest player in the NFL. A total low life. But when he came and played for the Bills - I loved him!

I was being sarcastic but I would absolutely want to have Edeleman on the Bills. If it makes the Bills a better team I'm for it.

Maybe the Bills can pick up Edelman after Belichick cuts him!

AMEN!

Galdarnit Baltimore the Pats are a freaking zombie organization. You have to drive a spike through their skull to finish them off.