CincyBillsFan

No. But folks who complain about Allen ignore this simple fact. Think about the catches that were made by the Cleveland WR's yesterday. I have not seen a Bill's receiver make a catch as good as that Landry catch on the Browns game winning TD drive over the last TWO YEARS. And I still have that Golden Tate catch against Dallas last Monday night burned into my eyes. Or the Amari Cooper catches last night. Allen definitely misses some open receivers and he definitely has to improve but his receivers are still dropping passes and they NEVER make spectacular catches to bail him out. The Bill's offensive problems are a TEAM problem NOT a Josh Allen problem.

Great take. And this is so obvious when comparing Allen to Tyrod that the folks ignoring it are doing so because of a weird dislike of Allen. Tyrod was given plenty of time to show us he wasn't the guy. I want Allen to succeed and at this time in his career I look for the positive when I watch him play. He has improved greatly from his early starts last season. Remember Green Bay, TN & LA? If he continues to improve we have a keeper. If he plateaus before getting much better we don't have a franchise guy and we'll have to start over. But I happen to think he'll keep getting better and by the midway point of the season next year the negative Allen tirades will look ridiculous in hindsight. But if he doesn't get any better and ends being a Buffalo version of Bortles then it isn't personal He would just be a guy that couldn't quite get to the next level. With a lot of the posters critical of Allen on 2BD it just seems there is a personal animus towards the guy. I just don't get it.

As others have noted Allen went for the win with Brown. In hindsight it was the wrong call but when looking at it from the long term perspective of Allen's development as a QB I think it was the right call. It was aggressive and we'd all be singing Allen's praises today if Brown had comeback for the back shoulder throw. As for throwing to Beasley on that play I think the picture makes the situation look a lot better then it really was. With the Browns DE coming almost unhindered at Allen the possibility the pass could have been batted down or Allen under severe duress would have missed the throw was pretty high. IMO either throw, whether to Brown or Beasley, was going to be equally problematic but for different reasons. BTW, by not going out of bounds on the previous play Singleterry put the Bills in a tougher spot with respect to the clock. This seems to be getting overlooked in trying to assign blame for that last drive.

And after Minnesota's 28 - 24 victory over Dallas we can add another QB who threw for well under 300 yards winning a game against a QB who just missed hitting 400 yards! That brings the total today to 10 games won by QB's who did not hit 300 yards passing with only 1 of the QB's who passed 300 yards winning their game.

You can BOTH play to win a game AND still not expect to have a winning season based on the point in a rebuild you're at. The Dolphins are clearly at the start of a rebuild but at the same time they've been playing to win. If Miami had started out 3 - 3 they would have been sort of happy & in shock. More importantly they would have realized that they were NOT positioned to make a serious run for the playoffs down the line because they gave away all their players. It really is a dilemma for teams when they exceed their own internal expectations during a rebuild. I'm actually glad the Bills didn't go out and overpay for players that might have helped them this year to make the playoffs. I would rather miss the playoffs this year if it puts us in a better position to make multiple playoff runs over the next 5 years.

Well that's one way to look at it. But you're right in that I needed to use more precise wording here - instead of "hoped", which is how you feel when you buy a Power Ball ticket, they "expected" and prepared for a much more modest outcome. But the bottom line is that until we upgrade the talent around Allen it's hard to see just how high his upside is.

I guess it would be to bench Allen and see if Barkley can do it. Then in the off season trade Allen for a 2nd round pick and go all out to sign Teddy Bridgwater or maybe work a deal with Jacksonville for Gardnew Minshew. I mean he's had a couple of 300 yard games so he's much better then Allen. Of course any of these moves would be insane but that's the type of thinking 20 years of NFL purgatory gets you. And I get it. We're seeing a football version of post traumatic stress syndrome. Then how is it happening?

I'm becoming more convinced by the game that the Bills brain trust was hoping to win AT MOST 8 games this year based on where they thought we were in the rebuild. Then we unexpectedly get off to a 3 - 0, 5 - 1 & 6 - 2 start and surge to the front of the pack in the wildcard. Of course this is due to a perfect storm of AFC teams imploding, the Bills having an easy schedule and the teams playing a scrappy brand of football. But if you look how the Bill's offense was structured this year this season was all about getting Allen reps and improving his game. If the Bills truly thought they had a chance to go 10 - 6 and make the playoffs do you think they cut Shady at the end of the preseason and go into the season with those TE's and that backfield? From a big picture standpoint NEXT season was the one the Bills were aiming for to move away from the rebuild and jump into contending for the Division title & beyond.

If this is what happened that it means they did try to win the game and not settle for the FG. You can call it a bad decision by Allen but you could also say it was an aggressive attempt to end the game in regulation. On the road and with an inferior kicker, we were at a disadvantage in OT.

This is where the circumstances of the game come into play. Say the Bills didn't have that goal line stand in the 1st half and the Browns score a TD. Then late in the game Cleveland ices things with that last TD to go up 26 - 16. Now on that last drive Allen, throwing against a prevent D, drives us down for a TD with 18 seconds left, getting that last 35 yards. Bingo he just got his first 300 yard game! And we lose 26 - 23. Since Allen has come back from his injury last year we just haven't had to many of those types of games. Our games are usually close affairs.

I think you bring up some uncomfortable truths about today's game. First off I don't think McD & Daboll are idiots but I do think Daboll over thinks & over complicates things. For some reason he thought we could attack the Browns downfield but with a modern day Bruce Smith on the field and the QB NOT wearing a red jersey it's a dangerous assumption. I also don't think Daboll has much confidence in our RB's. He doesn't see Singleterry as a week in and week out 20 - 25 carry bruiser. And Gore wouldn't last half the season if we tried to run him in that mode. We simply don't have the backfield talent to do what at least half the NFL offenses can do when needed - pound the football.

I agree it is odd. But I also think it's by design. McDermitt doesn't ever want to be in a position where he's so far behind a QB has the opportunity to pile up yardage against the prevent. Hell last week Gardner Minshew threw for 309 yards in a losing cause in which his team only scored 3 points! In some ways that's more amazing then not hitting 300 yards.

Here's where having an expert watch that particular play would really help. First off Allen was not widely inaccurate there as he got the ball exactly where it needed to be but as you say appeared to be off by a "split second". I can live with that in a 2nd year QB. But what I would be curious about is at tomorrows film session at One Bills Drive will anyone say that Knox should have adjusted ever so slightly and stepped to the ball? I mean if he does it blocks the DB from knocking the ball away and it's a either a TD catch or PI in the end zone as the DB would have had to run through Knox to get to the ball. Kind of like that first Cleveland TD where the coverage was good but the WR made a nice adjustment to the ball.

Or you don't have explosive play makers. Or you haven't been in the circumstances that lead to 300 yard games - like falling way behind and piling up yardage against prevent defenses. Like I said there were 9 games won today with QB's throwing for well under 300 yards and only 1 game won by a QB throwing for more then 300 yards. Did he? I wouldn't know from watching the game on TV. I can see when he misses a wide open guy and I can see when a receiver drops the ball and I can see when Allen throws the ball at the feet of a RB so our crappy screen play doesn't get blown up or when he throws a ball into the stands to avoid a sack. But how many times he misses his read - I can't tell. I wait until those guys at the Athletic or 22 review go over the film and show me where Allen made the right or wrong read.

Quit moving the goal posts. The original criticism was that Allen was missing all sorts of OPEN receivers. And I challenged that saying I only remember him missing 2 OPEN receivers with bad throws. As for the 19 incompletions, there were drops, throwaways, great defensive plays and guys who were covered. We had our usual couple of passes thrown at the feet of the RB because our attempted screen was blown up. That pretty much covers the 2 bad throws and 17 other incompletions.

I can't wait to see the deep throw to McKenzie on the 22 review. Maybe it was my looking at Allen's passes through rose colored glasses but McKenzie looked like he was running in sand on that play. he seemed slow and it even looked like he slowed down. Did anyone else notice this?

I think two factors contributed to this: 1) The offensive game plan. Even the scripted drives were off today. 2) The lack of offensive rhythm was in part due to the D not getting off the field and limiting offensive possessions - especially in the 1st half. On our last 2 possessions Allen led us to a go ahead TD, overcoming a holding penalty, and then got us into FG range for a shot to tie things up. I watched the caroilina kicker nail a 50 yard FG into the wind and snow today so 52 yards while long IS make-able. I agree though that things just seemed off today. You get a few of these types of games every season.

Look I admit I'm an Allen fan and I would hate to see the kid driven out of Buffalo due to the insane and ignorant expectations of a small but vocal part of the fan base and a bigger but even more ignorant segment of the Western NY sports media but pointing out the absurdity of treating 300 yard passing games as something special is NOT making a "lame excuse". And sorry but all you have to do is watch a day of NFL football to appreciate the Bill's utter lack of play makers on Offense. IMO, the ONLY Bills offensive guy that opponents defenses game plan for is Allen. Who do you think the Bill's defensive coaches game planned for against Cleveland today? I bet Baker Mayfield was #4 or #5 after Landry, OBJ, Chubb and even Hunt. That you guys see this as making excuses is strange to me.

YES. As others have noted Brown & Beasley are having excellent seasons and the Bills are winning. And the draft is packed with great, impact receivers. As an aside, I believe that if Allen was behind center for the Browns and Mayfield was QBing the Bills the final score would have been Cleveland 34 Buffalo 13. IMO Mayfield under performed given the talent at wide out and in the back field he has.

Exactly right. Hell on one play they pitched the damn ball to Gore on a sweep. What the hell is that? It's like putting in a tackle eligible player and calling his number on a deep throw. It makes no sense. My problem with today is I couldn't for the life of me figure out what Daboll was trying to do offensively. Now to be fair part of this was due to a D which allowed Cleveland to many long drives and couldn't get off the field. There were some LONG stretches in the 1st half between possessions for our offense. It's hard to get into any kind of rhythm under these circumstances. But 41 attempted passes and less then 15 called running plays seemed unbalanced in a close, one score game.

I think this is fair. While Allen and the offense were off at times their biggest problem was that they again missed out on 2 or 3 possessions because the D couldn't get the Browns off the field. While everyone is raving about the great goal line stand, and it was impressive, the Browns had two long drives that devoured a big chunk of the 1st half. And while those two drives only yielded 3 points you can't ignore that they kept the O off the field, robbed us of at least 2 extra first half possessions and made it more difficult for an already shaky O to get into a rhythm. And again the D did not force a turnover. That dropped INT cost the Bills about 35 yards in field position. We know the O is weak and that this team depends on the D. But that goes beyond holding the other team to 19 points and then crying because the O couldn't score 20 points. It also means forcing TO's and putting our O in position to score points. After 9 games we have only forced TWO TO's in opponents territory and only ONE TO in the opponents red zone. This offense needs all the help it can get. Given that the payroll & talent are concentrated on the D this is a reasonable expectation. And finally, given how this team is structured to have a strong D, I don't care how anemic the O has been or how many FG's we miss when we have a 4 point lead with less then 6 minutes left in the game and the opponent is on their own 18 yard line WE SHOULD WIN THE DAMN GAME.

First off this obsession with 300 yard passing games is nuts IMO. QB's not getting anywhere close to 300 yards won 9 games today. While QB's throwing for over 300 yards lost 4 games. Only 1 of the QB's who threw for over 300 yards won their game. The quote from Bleacher Report is absurd. Did the guy watch the game? How many open targets did Allen miss today? I count 2 - Brown on the 4th down and McKenzie on the long pass. BTW, did anyone else think McKenzie looked like he was running in sand and actually slowed down on that play? So on 41 attempted passes he missed 2 open guys - not bad. Allen hooked up nicely with Beasley & Brown multiple times but like Bleacher Report notes neither of these guys are spectacular - which is part of the Bill's offensive problem. We don't have a single reliable game breaker. After watching OBJ & Landry can there be any doubt of this? As for Singletery what is Bleacher Report talking about? He only got 8 carries so how the hell is Allen supposed to benefit from the "life" he's giving to the running game?

Really? Sure these things are important for YAC but the plays that have the most potential to ring up HUGE YAC are screen passes. Before the Redskins game the Bills had attempted 16 screen passes and gained 34 yards. I challenge you to show me where Allen's throws IN ANY WAY negatively impacted those plays? If you want big YAC then throw a ball behind the LOS like the Giants did and let Barkley take it for 70 YAC. Or the screen Allen threw to Motor that gained about 45 YAC. I maintain that YAC is most impacted by the skill players ability to make a move and/or break tackles. Yes, putting the ball in the right place helps but is not the difference maker. And after the individual skill player, the willingness to run screen plays well sets up all kinds of YAC. And here the O-line is critical because the screen depends on the O-line first selling it and then blocking for it in space. I keep hearing people talk about QB's "throwing the WR open". Allen does this several times a game when he fits the ball into tight windows and throws before the receiver makes his cut. And except for rare instances these plays don't generally produce much YAC. WR's create YAC by FIRST creating separation and then by making a move or breaking a tackle.

Fair point but IMO Allen's "unimpressive" stats are a direct result of: * The style of game the Bills play. Once they get the lead the Bills primary job is to protect it. They downshift the offense. Even in their 2 losses the Bills were not blown out. There has not been a game this year where the Bills needed to abandon their conservative game plan in order make up a huge points deficit. In fact going back to Allen's post injury starts from last year and you see the same pattern. Even last years NE loss wasn't a blowout loss. * A completely revamped offense in which 9 of 11 starters are new. * A lack of explosive, big play offensive skill players. The injury to Motor removed the only big play RB on the roster for 5 games. The WR's have been upgraded with dependable guys that can make clutch catches but would anyone confuse Beasley & Brown for game breakers? The Bills still get very little pass catching production out of their TE's, particularly compared to most NFL teams. The FACT remains that the Bills are a few missing pieces away from having an explosive stable of skill players. By next year I suspect that when needed Allen and the Bills offense will be able to throw the ball for 350 yards and win a shootout. However that will NOT be the preferred game outcome for the Bills. They will be fine with winning games 17 - 6. The Bills will never by a fantasy football darling on offense.

Hunt's return may benefit the Bills in that it reduces the # of carries Chubb gets.