CincyBillsFan

Maybe. And for sure that's the conventional wisdom in the current NFL. But what put TN in the conference championship game? A RB. And back in the day RB's could take a game over and will their teams to championships. The Bills do not go to 4 straight SB's without Thomas. And CMC is on Thurman's level. And keep in mind that we pick #22 this year and with CMC we would likely be picking AFTER that next year. So it's not like we're giving away lottery draft picks. Again I don't see McBean doing this but God help us if NE or Miami or KC or Pitt or Denver does it. Because as sure as the sun rises in the east it will make our path to the SB harder.

First off CMC is that good. Those who think Singleterry is on the same level are fooling themselves. Keep in mind that CMC has stayed HEALTHY through THREE NFL seasons in spite of all his touches. And while I like Singleterry my knock on him was that he didn't exactly make a lot happen as a pass catching RB. Think about the 6 yrd gain off an Allen pass against Cleveland late. Throw that same pass to CMC and you probably can add 10 yards to the total and we win the game. It was very rare that CMC was tackled by one guy in open space. Go and watch CMC's highlights and then get back to me about whether Singleterry is even close to his level. CMC made catches that would impress the best WR's in the game. And while this is a classic off season discussion (to much time on our hands) at the Panthers Reddit there are at least THREE different threads talking about Carolina's new ownership maybe letting CMC go. As for what he would be worth to the Bills? I think that bringing in a guy like CMC could put us over the top and into a conference championship and maybe even the SB. CMC was deadly running the read option with Newton and he would be just as dangerous running it with Allen. CMC also averaged 5 yards per carry with a lot of that coming between the tackles. And I think CMC & Singleterry could be complimentary to each other. The guy is evidently a gym rat who is likely to stay in prime health for another 3 - 5 years. Now do I think Carolina would let him go and we would pick him up? No. But it's fun speculating and over in Panther country they're terrified at the possibility of losing one of the most exciting players in the NFL.

This is the core reason we continue to have negative articles about Allen. This is also why so called "experts" continue to over analyze Allen looking for every little flaw as vindication for what they said when he got drafted. In many ways their professional reputations depend on Allen sucking. To overcome this Allen will have to produce on the order of what Mahomes produced which is not going to happen with the Bill's current offensive talent. Allen IMO is already a solid NFL QB. He has much to work on but there is no reason based on his last 2 seasons to think he doesn't have the capacity and will to keep improving. We know for a fact that his floor has risen substantially since he was drafted and his ceiling still remains very high.

If we or any team other then Baltimore and maybe SF had taken Jackson they very well could be looking for a new QB. Jackson would have struggled in a conventional offense. I give full credit to the Ravens organization for going all in on Lamar. I doubt McD & Dabold would have done the same with Jackson.

IMO Allen was placed in as bad or even worse position then Rosen. I'm not sure why a number of posts on this thread are saying Rosen came into a worse situation then Allen. Rosen got more reps with the Cards first team in training camp and the preseason then Allen did and the offensive talent around Rosen was as good and maybe a bit better then what the Bills put around Allen. Bottom line is that while I like Beane & McD, the Bills organization did not distinguish itself in its handling of Allen then the Cards did in their handling of Rosen.

I don't agree. I can think of 5 - 10 events having NOTHING to do with Allen's "decision making" that cost us that game. In fact the only example of a bad decision by Allen that negatively impacted the game was the big sack he took in the 4th quarter. Oh and bad decisions that had very little effect on the game, like throwing deep to DeMarco or trying to lateral to Knox, don't count because in the grand scheme of things they didn't impact the game like: * A couple of key dropped passes in the 1st half which if they had been caught likely lock up the game by halftime. * A missed block in OT that likely prevented us from winning the game. * Allowing a 3rd & 18 conversion on what was essentially a check down pass. * Failing to wrap-up and make a sack on 3rd & long on the Texans game winning FG drive. There are others but you get the point. As the article points out Allen is still a work in progress and there are things he needs to work on and get better at. But to claim that his poor decision making cost us the playoff game is just plain wrong.

For those of us who have used statistics to analyze all sorts of things your sentence in bold pretty much invalidates everything these guys have done. This is so inappropriate at so many levels it begs the question of PFF's basic understanding of statistics. For those of us who use statistics in our everyday work it's hard to understand how groups like PFF deal with the enormous number of variables involved in each individual play. Football suffers from having the most variables per play of any sport while having very small sample sizes. So I struggle with how effectively they can apply "analytics" in assessing QB play. So it's reasonable for anyone experienced with using statistics to study complex processes to wonder how they deal with such a chaotic system like football . But when they employ FICTIONAL results in their analysis my skepticism skyrockets and it's hard not to feel like they've jumped the shark.

***** = scum sucking, low life, mathematics challenged, dimwits. As an aside, the fact that Allen did not throw a 4th quarter INT or a red zone INT is impressive as hell. And as others have said this fact alone renders the entire PFF notion of "turnover worthy plays" to be hot garbage.

But what a year! Simply put Joe Burrow had the single greatest season at QB in the 150 year history of college football. And it's not close. * 60 TD passes and only 6 INT's * Over 6,000 total yards. * SEC title, College Football Championship and Heisman trophy winner. And Burrow accomplished this playing arguably the toughest schedule in college football history. His biggest games also came against the best competition in the most important games. And for the record Burrow had a solid season in 2018 which was his first as a starting QB. In fact check out his games from late in that season, particularly the New Years Day Bowl game against #6 CFU (4 TD passes) and you'll see Burrow was flashing signs of what was to come in 2019. Burrow did not have a bad game in 2019 - that's 15 games. In fact Burrow did not have a bad half this past season.

I'm thinking that Allen choked a bit in the 4th quarter as the Texans cut the Bills lead. And this isn't surprising in the least given that it was Allen's FIRST playoff game and it was on the road to boot. I think we tend to underestimate just how damaging the defense giving up that 75 yard TD drive AND a 2 point conversion really was. All of a sudden the game goes from the Bills having a commanding lead to a one score contest. At that point Allen tries to do to much, fumbles and he's clearly shaken. What I like though is that he got his act together late and led us to a tying FG and was driving us towards the winning score in OT. Allen played well, if a bit chaotic, in those last 2 drives. And this was in spite of being on the road in front of a fired up crowd. IMO Allen acquitted himself well under the circumstances in that playoff game.

It might be cheaper to just get Stafford's skill players. I saw some nice plays by the WR's on the video.

A couple of thoughts here: * The Lions could do a lot worse then Stafford at QB. Frankly he is good enough to win them a Super Bowl if their coach & GM can fix the rest of the team. The Lions issues are NOT about their QB. Hell, TN made it to the AFC Championship game with Tannyhill at QB and the 49's made it to the Super Bowl with Jimmy G - both of whom are inferior to Stafford IMO. * If the Bills brought Stafford to Buffalo I would probably stop being a fan. Such a move would be so insane that I would question investing time & money into the Bills. The idea that this move wouldn't screw up Allen AND bust the Bills salary cap on a position they already are good at makes such a move absurd on the face of it. Luckily the Bills are 100% certain NOT to do this. * I think there are some Bills fans that just like to have a QB controversy. They're only happy when they can scream "put Marrangi in" if the QB isn't playing perfect. * The ONLY place that would benefit from the Bills signing Stafford would be 2BD as traffic would explode and the number of threads would increase exponentially!

And they forgot to factor in QB rushing #'s: Allen = 109 rushes for 510 yards generating 42 first downs Mayfield = 28 rushes for 141 yards generating 15 first downs. IMO PFF has no credibility in their rankings.

First off Allen IS already a starting QB in the NFL. Second, those of us who believe Allen will be a very good to elite NFL QB readily agree that we need to see more in year 3 before the Bills commit the big bucks. Where you are being unreasonable is when you go on about Allen not being able to improve any further. That is simply ridiculous. You are also guilty of selective memory when it comes to the games Allen played in this year. I don't know what motivates you here but it's NOT about wanting a good faith discussion of Allen's strengths & weaknesses.

So you think Allen is worth about as much as Rosen? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But when other GM's consider Allen they will start with the criteria they used in 2018 - awesome physical tools & HUGE upside but also very raw and needs a lot of work. But they will then factor in the last 2 years where as a starting NFL QB Allen still has those awesome tools & HUGE upside but also demonstrated that his downside is nowhere near as low as they might have worried about in 2018. This means that IMO they would be willing to part with two 1st round picks to get him today. Let's look at this question another way. Given what we know TODAY, If the NFL had a do over for the 2018 draft I think the Browns & Jets take Allen over Mayfield & Darnold. I think the Bills still draft Allen over Mayfield & Darnold even if all 3 were available to the Bills at #7. The interesting question is where would Jackson be picked? And it's not hyperbolic. I'm stunned that folks think Allen, who was picked #7 in the 1st round of 2018 would FALL in value 2 years later after showing he was at a MINIMUM a starting caliber QB. To me that's a case of NEGATIVE hyperbole.

So you're saying someone could get Allen for the same price that Miami paid to get Rosen? Really! Allen was the 7th guy taken in the 2018 draft. He has clearly shown that he is NOT a bust and has flashed serious upside potential. Allen is a safer bet then Burrow and I think Burrow is fantastic. But Allen has already at times performed at an elite level in the NFL. There are credible rumors swirling around that Miami might part with THREE 1st round picks to land Burrow. If Bean offered Allen to Miami for TWO 1st round picks the Dolphins would do it in a heartbeat. What part don't you think would happen? Bean offering to trade Allen or someone giving up 2 first round and 2 second round picks? I think there is a zero chance Bean offers Allen up for trade. But if he did I would be shocked if he didn't get a couple of 1st round picks for Allen. Allen is a top 10 pick who is on the cusp of being a top flight QB. If Rosen was worth a 2nd Allen is worth two 1st round picks.

At minimum it would be two #1's. & two #2's.

I'm an Ohio State fan and Burrow only played in mop up time in 2016. Those stats are irrelevant. The bottom line is that he couldn't win the OSU job, was average his first year at LSU and then blossomed into one of the best QB prospects to come out of college in the last 20 years. And he did this AFTER the age of 21. And for the record Allen's path to being an NFL QB was NOT "bad". He went from unrecruited HS player to a starter at Wyoming. He then went from Wyoming to being a top 10 pick in the NFL draft. He then became a starting NFL QB in week 2 as a rookie. He then improved his game significantly since becoming a starting NFL QB. THERE'S NOTHING BAD ABOUT THIS! My point was that Allen didn't enjoy the advantages of a lot of young QB's with respect to high level coaching during his early years of football. And as long as you have the mental & physical tools - which Allen has in abundance - all you need to overcome this is a couple of years of high level coaching & experiences. He's getting that and he's improving by leaps & bounds. My point is also that he's following a more traditional path for QB development. This is a path that was the norm for the majority of young NFL QB's from the 1960's - 1990's. As for your hypothetical question, if I didn't know what I know now - that Allen has demonstrated that he can be an NFL QB - and I was asked to choose between Allen coming out of college in 2018 and Burrow today I would pick Burrow. Who wouldn't. The real question is which of these 2 QB's do you think is more likely to be a top 5 NFL QB 5 years from now? My answer would be Allen because he's already PROVEN he can play at an NFL level. Burrow still has to prove this. And for the record I think Burrow is a fantastic QB prospect and will thrive in the NFL. Bottom line is your pessimism about Allen is unwarranted. Your declaration that Allen can't get better is flat out wrong and has been disproved by Allen's performance to date.

I disagree completely with this. It used to be the norm in the NFL for QB's not to reach their full capabilities until their late 20's. In fact the vast majority of QB's had their greatest improvement AFTER they turned 23 as a consequence of their receiving proper coaching combined with increased reps & game experience. What has changed in the last decade is that the advance training available to some QB's in their youth enables them to hit the ground running in the NFL. Good for them. But this in no way precludes those QB's who for whatever reason didn't benefit from advanced training in their early years from learning how to play QB at an elite level. Allen is a THROWBACK an old school young QB who will follow a conventional path that was common in the 1970's & 1980's. Just this year you saw Joe Burrow do exactly this going from being an average QB at 22 to being a QB that had the single greatest season in the history of college football at 23. If you look at Allen's improvement vector from his start as an unrecruited HS QB who spent a year in Jr College to a stint at Wyoming then a top 10 pick of the Bills, you can see that he's more then able to get better as he's exposed to better coaching & experiences. This is a guy who as a rookie in the NFL was thrown to the wolves on a horrendous offense yet has by EVERY measure significantly improved his QB skills from those first few games to now. The trajectory in his improvement from 18 to 23 had been robustly UP. And there is no rational reason to believe that it doesn't continue for the next few years.

It's possible that several things can be true at the same time such as: * Mahomes is a great QB and looks to be a generational talent. * Mahomes came into the NFL in the BEST situation a rookie QB could hope for. From coaching to surrounding offensive talent to first class mentor at QB show me a QB who started their career in a better situation? * Mahomes is unlikely to have matched his KC performance had he been drafted by the Bills in 2017. * Allen is likely to have progressed faster & put up better numbers had he been put into the same situation with the Chiefs that Mahomes was. Watching the SB and imagining Allen starting in place of Mahomes and I frankly think the result would have been similar. * IMO when we look back on all this in 5 years everyone will agree that it was a HUGE WIN/WIN for both teams. Both the Bills & Chiefs will have their SB winning Franchise QB's and the Bills will have an all pro CB & LB to go along with it.

This is great news. I think this guy still has gas in the tank and he would be a fantastic mentor to Sweeney & Knox and security blanket for Allen. Here's to hoping!

This. The abundance of talent on KC's offense is breathtaking. The fact that Watkins is their 3rd or even 4th best skill player is insane. One thing the playoffs showed us and it was reinforced big time in the Super Bowl is that size, speed & "hands" matter in your receivers. That this is an area the Bills MUST upgrade is beyond doubt. The continuous nitpicking of Allen in the face of this reality is wrongheaded IMO.

Happy I agree with you 100%. I was just being sarcastic to all those folks who continuously remind us that the Bills screwed up by not drafting Mahomes!

Well another SB has come and gone. Some comments: * Happy for Reid and Mahomes. Both guys seem like good dudes. * Watching the SB reminded me that the Bills are not far off. It's possible, hell even likely, that this off season will put them over the top. * Best player on the field yesterday was Bosa and IMO the MVP should have been the RB for KC. * Even though they are both surrounded with an enormous amount of talented skill players and excellent O-lines, BOTH QB's yesterday were average. Mahomes came up clutch at the end but he was lucky he wasn't responsible for 4 TO's. Jimmy G really faded in the 4th quarter. Allen is not that far behind these guys. * Reading a Bill's message board and seeing all the posts obsessing over the Bills not drafting Mahomes is pathetic. Get the hell over it. Toddlers don't throw temper tantrums that last this long. Frankly it comes across like a mental illness. Most Bills fans didn't obsess over "wide right" in the SB as much as thee folks go on and on about not drafting Mahomes. * In fact, the "we didn't draft Mahomes" whiners should switch their complaints to "why did we let Watkins go"! He had a great game yesterday and the TRUTH is that the Bills need an upgrade at WR NOT at QB.

I don't disagree with you here and my post wasn't meant as a criticism of you since you actually analyze Allen's performance with an open mind. I enjoy reading your stuff as it helps me to more accurately assess Allen's performance. For sure I want Allen to succeed because the cost to the Bills would be terrible if he doesn't. This does run the risk of my looking at Allen through rose colored glasses. You provide good perspective to help me keep it real with respect to Allen. But I would note that unless we know how that play was supposed to work and what the true progression read was we can't really tell if Allen missed Singleterry. If the RB was the 4th option then I'm fine with Allen missing it. If Singleterry was the 2nd option then Allen needs to work on this part of his game and take what's given. I do agree 100% with you about DiMarco split out wide. Often he was out there with Gore which seemed like a total waste of space.