CincyBillsFan

He already is. They ought to rename the Sirius NFL Channel the "Aaron Roger's Discussion". They can't go 5 minutes without talking about him. And while it's hard to have much sympathy for Rogers let's not forget that the moron Packers MOVED UP in the first round to take Love with Rogers at his peak. Packer management own a lot of the crap they're getting.

Why so negative? It's more likely that what we saw this year was a better version of the 1989 Bills. There is more reason to be optimistic about the Bills Super Bowl chances over the next 5 years then pessimistic.

This. Burrow is a lot better then some folks on 2BD think but Allen & Mahomes are at a different level IMO. The Bengals had a classic NFL Cinderella run this season - good for them. But this guy is way overrating a Super Bowl appearance in putting Burrow ahead of Mahomes & Allen.

I don't disagree but on Cowherd the other day two different "experts" noted the bind the 49's are in. Evidently Lance did not impress in games or in practice this season. Maybe he's just a Mahomes waiting to be unleashed. But it wouldn't shock me if the 49's traded Lance. There are some desperate teams out there looking for their guy at QB.

I would settle for taking a 3 yard pass 20 yards. Now that happens all the time except on the Bills.

I'm hearing more & more reports that the 49's aren't convinced that Lance is the guy and they may not let Jimmy G go. It's one thing to speculate on how good your shiny new toy is when Jimmy G throws an INT in a playoff game. It's quite another to walk away from the solid QB that helped get you to the NFC championship game for a 2nd year guy that hasn't exactly impressed. The 49's are in a real bind IMO.

I really think that all the Bills need to do is tweak a few things to be lugging the Lombardi Trophy past City Hall. Why do I think this: * I don't believe they're going to go 0 - 5 in one score regular season games. If they go 3 - 2 they'll finish 14 -3 and have home field locked up. * The Bills have a large number of young players ascending who will be even bigger contributors next season. These include Oliver, Harrison, Groot, Singleterry, Knox, Brown, Davis & Allen. * yea I said Allen is still ascending and I believe it. It's amazing to think where his ceiling might be. * I believe that on the offensive side of the ball they will have better coaching next season. * A couple of modest free agent signings and the draft will be enough to fill in any holes.

I know I'm an old fart but that halftime show was boring. And with all the lip syncing and instrument playing fakery going on they should have had milli vanilli out there. At least they know how to properly lip sync.

I agree that Murray is a good player. But the dilemma facing these teams is that Murray & Mayfield are not IMO among the very few that can command top dollar at QB. I am just so happy that Allen has grown to the point that there is no doubt he is worth the mega contract. As a fan I would hate to be in the position that Cleveland is this year and Arizona will be next year.

Ditto for me. Its actually kind of amazing how these guys misuse statistical analyses with respect to football. Analytics serves a purpose in football but by and large it's been blown way out of proportion. It's like the concept of variability, how the data is measured & sample size are meaningless concepts when it comes to applying stats to football.

A step forward. As a wise coach once said the "winds blow harder at the top of the mountain". The Bills repeated as Division champs, blew out their arch rival in the first playoff game and came within 13 seconds of advancing to the AFC championship game for the 2nd straight year. The Bills mastered those tricky winds at the top of the mountain. I would include his 2nd game at NE where he was close to unstoppable. That was for all intents and purposes a playoff game for the Bills. So you can say that Allen did it in 3 games in a row if the criteria is great games played against top competition.

I'm giving my opinion on what I think Murray is worth not what some fools are willing to pay him. There is this sense in some quarters that paying a QB big bucks hurts a team over the long run. I call BS on that. The key is making sure you pay the right QB the big bucks. There are only a few QB's under 30 whose play is at the level where they can carry a team on their shoulders. These are the guys wroth paying 40 - 50 million dollars a year to. Today that includes Mahomes, Allen & Burrow and I suspect will soon include Herbert. The real issue is how do you get QB's whose pay is at best only worth 20 - 30 million per year to take that amount? IMO this group includes Jackson, Mayfield, Prescott & Murray. This is where teams will make or break their futures. The teams like Buffalo, KC, LA and Cincy have their guy and they will be relevant for as long as those QB's stay healthy. But if any of the teams with the 20 - 30 million dollar QB's pays them at 40 million or above they will regret it big time. Just like the Vikings do.

I have no problem seeing Herbert, Mahomes and Burrow as matching Allen. Murray on the other hand doesn't. It's called an eye test - try it you might like it. As for stats how about these: Murray's first playoff game at the end of his 3rd season: 19/34 for 137 yards & 2 INT including a pick 6. QB rating = 40.9 with 2 rushes for 6 yards. Total of 143 yards. Allen's first playoff game at the end of his 2nd season: 24/46 for 264 yards. QB rating = 69.5 with 9 rushes for 92 yards & 1 reception for 16 yards & a TD. Total of 372 yards. Allen's 2nd playoff game at the end of his 3rd year: 26/35 for 324yards & 2 TD's. QB rating = 121.6 with 11 rushes for 54 yards & 1 TD. Total of 374 yards.

I disagree with your conclusion that the stats (including playoffs) show that Allen & Murray were equal after their 3rd seasons. And the gap is even wider if you include Allen's 4th year stats. Is that intellectual enough for you?

You're right that there is no debate that by his 3rd season Allen was clearly performing better then Murray at the end of his 3rd season. And while a lot of QB's struggle in their first playoff game Murray melted down in way that rarely happens.

Allen's trajectory was almost straight up through his first three seasons. At best Murray has seen a very shallow rise in his offensive production through the same period of time. And there is no way you can compare Murray's disaster of a first playoff game to Allen's first game. Allen's first playoff game was after his 2nd season while Murray's was after his 3rd. Sure Allen had a couple of bad series but otherwise played very well. In fact Allen led the Bills on a late 4th quarter drive that put them into FG range and sent the game into OT. Allen also played well in OT in that game. Murray pretty much singly handily cost Arizona their playoff game with one of the worst performances from start to finish then I have ever seen in a playoff game.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Jimmy G. IMO he's definitely a tier 2 level QB. Sure he's not as flashy as Murray but his playoff success and won/lost record should not be downplayed. I get that we don't want to rate a QB solely based on their first playoff trip but my goodness Murray's performance was awful. He pretty much single handily lost that game. And given that this came at the end of three full seasons was a shock and I believe does indicate a bigger problem.

Sure his QB ratings have gone up but no where near as much as Allen's did through his first 3 seasons: 2018 = 67.9 2019 = 85.3 2020 = 107.2 IMO Murray isn't throwing the ball all that much better now then he was throwing it his rookie year. As for the Cowboys paying Dak 40 million per year? They're going to feel more and more like the Vikings do with Cousins over the next couple of seasons. So what would I pay Murray if I owned Arizona? Somewhere between 25 - 30 million dollars per year.

I agree with 3 of your 4 points. But IMO Murray has not proved himself yet. After three seasons: * He has yet to throw for 4000 or more yards. * He has yet to throw 30 or more TD's * If you look at his trajectory he has not really improved since his rookie season. * His one playoff game was a disaster. It was one of the worst QBed playoff games I've seen in the last 20 years. IMO the Cards would be better off with Jimmy G at QB. As an aside can you imaging if Allen had the same stats and outcomes after 3 full seasons, including a playoff game, that Murray has had? It would be a blood bath on 2BD and a lot of people would be screaming that no way should the Bills give Allen a big contract.

I think Murray's terrible performance in his first playoff game at the end of his 3rd season is cause for concern. I don't see anyone paying him over 40 million per year in a long term contract (as opposed to year-to-year as a franchise QB) until they get a better read on whether he can up his game in the playoffs. The other issue with Murray is that looking at his stats he has not improved over his first three seasons. His TD pass numbers, TD/INT ratio and passing yards appear to have plateaued. He has not thrown for 30 TD's yet nor has he thrown for over 4,000 yards. From a stat & eye test Murray is similar to Dak Prescott but 6 inches shorter.

Allen's ability to escape disaster hid this from a lot of fans.

You make a great point. You could also throw in the Titans bizarre decisions on their last offensive drive.

I haven't. That was worse, considering the position on the field, then anything Allen has done.

Flores worried me. It just seemed like a matter of time before the Dolphins truly became a contender under his helm. This guy and whoever the hell he brings in as coordinators - not to much. IMO the East will be easier for the Bills to win next season then it was this season.

Can you imagine the misery of that place with both O'Brien and Belechick there? IMO the division has gotten a lot easier with the Dolphins firing of Flores and the loss of MacDanial from NE.