WideNine

Karma can be a b1tch. I was never sold on Rosen, but only because I thought he was not the most mobile thing I have seen and he had a pretty exaggerated wind up and took too long to release. I thought it may cause him to take a few sacks, but putting him behind the Card's line only emphasized the issues. Perhaps with better protection he can turn things around, but man... if his pro career keeps going in its current trajectory these words will haunt him for the "next decade or so".

No need to sweat it K9...the ONLY certain thing is that we all will certainly be wrong on more than a few prospects we were high on.

Not saying the Bills will not pull the trigger, but I think the NE model of role players on offense has kind of hurt the super star #1 WR model. Belichick tells players "this game you are a decoy", this game you we will throw to you only after they show this defense, etc... Multiple players coming out of the org parrot the same thing so there must be some truth to it. It sounds like McDermott when describing his ideal WRs was buying into that concept, and it is hard to argue with the success of teams that can spread the ball around to players who are willing to just do their part - personal accolades and numbers aside. Does not mean they will not take an outstanding offensive skill player, but certainly any players who have a prima donna "me-first" reputation are very unlikely to end up as FA or draft prospects while Beane and McDermott are around. ....and yet again there was the Kelvin Benjamin thing - perhaps that was the butterfly that kicked them in the head.

Passes the Marvel Comics eye test and the kid is such a fluid effortless runner - deceptive does not cover it. He has not hurt his stock at all.

No Hock, no Fant.......the TE's they met with are 2nd and 3rd-4th round prospects so perhaps tipping their hand where they plan to spend their draft capital. I like Risner where he is projected to go and some of the other OT options if they fall a bit, but even though they need a road-grader to man the RT spot - that player still has to be able to move in space the way teams like to line their DEs in a wide 9 from either side... RTs have to be able to handle the speed rushers too IMO. The way Kaleb McGary and some of the other prospects move, I see them more inside at G. Honestly feel they cannot pass up on some of the defensive talent at 9, although I think Hock would do wonders for Allen's game. You can't get too wrapped around the axle with these prospects or you end up spending the next few seasons pissing and moaning about missed chances like Mahomes where everyone here starts looking for you to move on from your man-crush. Of course I have to admit it would sting a bit (a lot) if one of the better receiving skill players ended up in NE's lap.

A good 40 time is probably not the "cure all" for separation concerns so I should check myself - as another poster mentioned, coaches usually pay more attention to the 10 yard splits to get an idea of quickness out of gates or out of breaks.

I know right? Potentially the game of your career and you can't go because you have "arthritis" in your knee. I have arthritis in my whole body - that is what 2 Tylenols and doing some warm ups is meant to take care of till they find a cure

No worries - they have the videos of his runs tagged next to his time and the clock read 4.71 so go figure?

Must be a typo in the NFL.com site. Have his time listed as 4.70 without the "u" unofficial tag, but they have the video and I thought the clock read 4.71 too. We'll see if they change it.

Late in the season most analyst were pretty down on this receiving class, just not a whole lot of standout productivity last year. Looking at some of these combine numbers and how some of these guys are crushing drills you start to wonder if it was not just a really weak crop of QBs holding a lot of these guys back? Makes me feel more hopeful that the Bills should be able to find someone who can contribute - they can't all have bad hands

Hock's time was back a few pages in this thread 4.70. Yolo has been fast with the updates, NFL.com not so much, but you can check there too: http://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker#day=saturday

What about Oliver? He is my dark horse Bill's candidate - snow boarding and basketball background (body control) ran the 40 in the 4.6's and has the biggest perhaps best hands of all of the prospects.

Harry needed a good run, a lot of questions around his ability to separate based on his film. Was hard to tell if it was more a QB ball placement issue or a lack of quickness. The 4.5 speed will push him up boards.

Just yanking your chain - none of us (well most of us) are smart enough not to throw out absolutes when it comes to NFL success just based on combine numbers

Fant may still find success in the league, but watching Iowa games and trolling their boards "drops" were a common theme. Poor blocking, not "into it" if the play was away from him, and inconsistent hands which led to more reps for Hock. I never got the impression he was a cancer or a bad locker room guy, and I thought he handled the loss of reps situation like a pro sans causing distractions so I don't think there are any character issues. Like a lot of prospects, he comes with some question marks, and teams have to decide if they warrant pushing him down their boards a bit. I don't think anyone thought Hockenson was a better pure athlete - I also fully expected Fant to crush a lot of the combine measurables.

Classic case of a lot of teams waiting to see what his combine shows in regards to top-end speed and quickness. Everyone knows he is a beast in regards to strength and contested passes.

So you're saying he is going to be a bust.

He shocked folks that he came in as the smallest TE @ 6'2" and with the smallest hands. You are usually looking for a size mismatch and blocking ability, as well as the hands to find success with contested passes. Not sure why Irv Smith did not convert to a WR role in college - perhaps his 40 time was an issue... not sure, but there are plenty of WR's this year who are bigger than Irv Smith.

I think he will still find success in the NFL. I never thought of him as a 40 time burner, rather I always liked him as a well-rounded all-purpose TE that would be that team-first guy that fits the model the Bills are looking to fill. I thought his draft stock has been a bit inflated by his supplanting Fant as Iowa's go-to guy last season, but he is still a quality (high value/low risk) pick IMO. I am hoping his 40 does turn some teams off and that he drops - it would make him more of an option for teams looking to have someone step on the field and contribute pretty quickly. I also like a few of the other TEs available in this draft, but I think Hockenson is and will prove to be the best blocker of the bunch and he has good enough hands and speed to be a mismatch in coverage.

I think Ebron was just slow to develop and had some early inconsistencies in his game which is why Stafford and Detroit did not use him as their go-to guy. He has matured as a route runner and is catching the ball better with Indy, but needed that change of scenery. I get your point Doc, a team that spends their draft coin on Fant may end up having a long learning and maturity curve as well to endure and may not get their value from him. Buffalo fans are not very patient with dropped balls or lazy routes as the KB experiment clearly showed.

Gronk ran a 4.68 40... just a .02 faster than 4.7. We all have the tendency to glorify the combine measurables a bit too much on guys that have had success in the league - for reference NFL.com still has this to say in their archive regarding Gronk's combine. "Does not have a great top-end speed and may not be able to stretch the field at the next level. Lacks the elusiveness to make people miss after catch." Yeah - that guy is going to suck.

Kind of my take...pretty sure if the Bills stay put at 9 they go DL. Too many elite interior defensive players for the McBeane combo to pass up. There are some edge guys too that they might prefer. The dreams of Hock or other top-end receiving options IMO only have a slim chance of happening and only if they Bills trade down, get extra picks in the 1st, and those top-end offensive skill players slip a bit further in the 1st than expected. That's a lot of if's, and I think its more likely they grab one of the serviceable TE's and WR's later. What OBD does in free agency will dictate draft O-Line strategy, but there are safer picks for G and RT's in this draft, than LT's and C so I don't see them moving Dawkins, but they will bring in guys to compete/start at both G positions, a veteran FA Center (really hoping Spencer is not already penciled in as the starter), and I suspect they draft one of the many RT maulers available this year.

That is a very good point...straight line speed is not as important as quickness and agility. Those shuttle and cone drills probably give you more to base decisions on if the tape has you on the fence...strength and reps factor too. Still, a 300+ pound man running a sub-5 is still pretty flipp'n amazing to see... unless he just passed the TE on a pull and your a 170lb DB in his way

The average across the league is 6' 5" so he is 2 "8ths" from being right in the sweet spot. For a frame of reference out of the 21 TE's at the combine Hockenson is in the top 5 in height. He is taller than Fant, and Bama's Irv Smith Jr is the shortest at 6'2" and 3/8. The other TE I like is Josh Oliver he came in at 6'4" and change, but had the largest hands measured 10.75.

It's all good. There is certainly a cautionary tale when organizations get too blinded by analytics and methodology cure-all's. Look at how GE has "Agiled" their way into near bankruptcy. Much like slapping an "agile" sticker on a lumbering corpse. IMO... for OBD just like any other organization, nothing replaces good leadership, finding good people who make good decisions who then hire good people who can accomplish the mission (the process- that usually works).