JoshAllenHasBigHands

I mean, I think he is wrong. But people disagree. He gets to have his opinion. I wont even fault him for it.

To be clear, its not about right and wrong. Its about how condescending and self-righteous he is. For example, I don't mind that he is an analytics advocate, hating concepts like culture or momentum. Those are perfectly reasonable positions. What I hate is that he thinks that anyone who doesn't agree with him is "obviously" wrong or a fool.

He is why I don't listen to WGR anymore. Well, him and Jeremy. I've never really told anyone that is why, never complained to the station, anything like that. There isn't really anything that can be done. But, I can not listen and refuse to give them my business. It gives me that little bit of comfort.

I agree on the Clay thing, but I didn't want this thread to dissolve into an Allen v. Clay debate.

Yeah, you wouldn't.

You are for sure right, but that is a tough NFL throw. He hits that he is already at franchise QB status. But that is a tough ask for a rookie. I hope he gets there, but I'm not upset he hasn't hit that throw yet.

Its such a central point to the "Allen fails the analytics" test that I think goes completely unmentioned. It is a ton of fun watching our guy not relying exclusively on the check down. Its a much more fun offense to watch. Plus, eventually, if it all comes together, the check down will become a much more effective play.

Your take on these four throws is pessimistic and the "worst case" interpretation of each. Zay in the endzone- Zay was supposed to sit in the soft spot of the zone. He didn't. Regardless of fault, it was a misunderstanding, not a miss. It happens. Wobbly ball to Clay- it was catchable. Throw could have been better, but it was Clay that dropped the ball. The deep pall- they are low percentage throws for a reason. Hard to pin that on a QB Interception- it happens. He needs more touch on the ball for sure. But he is a rookie, that happens.

Solid point. I think about that stuff all the time- passes that look inaccurate because of miscommunications. Also, if Allen put the incompletion on Zay, I would have been furious. Team guys always put the failure on themselves. Saying he should have thrown a different pass doesn't mean he believes that, it just means he is being a leader.

I do not look at accuracy as a duality--you either are or you are not accurate. I see it as a spectrum. Allen is by no means the most accurate quarterback. But coming into the year, based on the scouting reports and every thing I had heard, I had expected him to be grossly inaccurate. I do not think that has been the case. He misses alot of throws; Zay in the endzone, Clay in the endzone, the interception. But aside from those, he made numerous intermediate throws that were deadly accurate. That throw to Zay at the end of the game that Zay dropped was a dime. The big thing is that I think his completion percentage is a bit misleading. For whatever reason, probably because he has not developed his reads, Allen doesn't take the check down often. Those check down throws really inflate completion percentages, especially for rookies. Almost all of Allen's throws are over ten yards in the air. Those lower percentage intermediate throws will always drive a completion percentage down. Point is this, I am happy with Allen's accuracy. It is better than I expected, and I am hoping he will improve. I am much more excited about Allen now than I was when we first drafted him.

Star? The guy who has played less than 50% of the snaps this year? Our DTs have been good, but nothing to write home about.

Oh...you don't know what a premise is. That might explain that. I mean, that must be the case, otherwise you would understand why comparing my statement to one about the #2 corner back is asinine. After all, you can't scheme around a hole in the interior of the defense...whereas you can with a corner back.

Could be, but then again you didn't actually point out how the logic was terrible...so really you've made no contribution.

Solid argumentation. Your contribution really makes this board a better place.

Really? You don't think a discussion about whether a player deserves the descriptor "good" is a difference of opinion? You pointed out some facts using anecdotal evidence (which happens to be a logical fallacy) and then got snippy I didn't agree with your opinion. That's textbook inciting.

For a guy who's profile says "offer more insight with less incite" you do a lot of inciting. Players and coaches always talk about "always getting better." Thats coach talk. The point is that you cannot have the #2 defense in the league if your starting MLB (who takes almost every snap aside from the game(s?) he missed) is not good. I think that is a fair argument to make.

Yeah, but Edmunds does so many of those things as well. Not to mention his presence in the middle of the field deters so much of the middle of the field passing game. I can admit "wayyy" better was too strong...

Even his bad games are really good. I realize this is going to dissolve into a simple difference of opinion, so its sort of pointless to argue over it.... but we have the #2 defense in the league. He is at the heart of that defense. He does things most LB cant, such as tipping passes or getting his hands in throwing lanes, or simply using his size and length to ward off interior passes. So many things that don't get pointed out and are not accounted for by PFF. He does miss the occasional assignment, but even the average veteran LB does. For a rookie, he has been really good. For an NFL LB he has been at least average, if not a little above average.

Even this season he has been really good. Just his length and range alone, and how they have affected the passing game, have been huge. Lots of guys rack up tackles. That doesn't mean they have the longevity to be a game changer long term.

Yeah, I think Edmunds is wayyyy better. His ability to get side line to side line is unmatched. The effect that has against opposing offenses is huge. I mean, we are the #2 defense in the league. Also, lots of guys rack up tackles. See Preston Brown. That doesn't make them game changing linebackers.

I actually don't think we need a WR that badly. Talent is great, but the truth is they will only do as well as Allen does. There are exceptions, drops, things like that. But the thing that will tangibly help him the most play in and play are solid offensive lineman. I also HATE drafting TEs high. I prefer to play the lottery in that regard.

This makes sense. The only problem is what offensive player doesn't need time to develop? RB? WR is are only other offensive need, and that position takes just as long as any other in the NFL. I think they know they need talent on the offensive side. Whether its WR or OL, I suspect thats where they go when they draft. Unfortunately, overwhelming odds are that those guys wont contribute immediately.

This is so important. The NFL will not stay like this forever. Innovation is part of why this league is so amazing.

Absolutely true. But remember five years ago when not even a single RB was worth the top 10 pick? It has definitely changed.

RBs are making a come back because of they way they are now used in the receiving game. If you recognized this, then you would have known McCaffrey was going to be a really good player. Moreover, if you recognize this, then you would know that RBs can be worth a top ten pick again.