JoshAllenHasBigHands

I hear you. The problem is the comparison is implicit. 7 touchdowns is good because it is a benchmark for what a good WR2 is. However, every other 7 touchdown receiver has touchdowns that can be devalued like you are doing to Zay. But that doesn’t mean they are any less good WR2s. It’s an implied double standard.

It can never be a fair analysis because it assumes the other WR2s he is being compared to score more “legitimate” touchdowns. Unless there is an accompanying analysis of other WRs, the argument is based on a hollow premise. All WRs score touchdowns against bad teams. It doesn’t mean their numbers are somehow less meaningful. 7 touchdowns is 7 touchdowns.

This is insane. This has gotten so out of control there is just nothing reasonable being said. Those “contextual” arguments are terrible, independently. But what’s worse about then is they ignore that every player with high touchdown numbers score touchdowns that also have “context,” as if Zay is the only player in the league scoring touchdowns against bad teams or in garbage time.

That is a dizzying spin zone.

This is a pretty devastating take down of this whole thread. I was told by the OP that the coaches probably believed that Zay was responsible for 9 drops that I said were uncatchable balls. Hard to say the OP wasn't wrong in light of this.

I NEVER trust fan perception and memory. It is biased, it is uninformed, and it is generally unhelpful. There are passes that fans feel should be caught that people work in around the league know is uncatchable. For example, you say he doesn't separate enough for a full time starting receiver. Like, what does this even mean in the context of man v. zone defenses. In a zone you are looking for the soft spots, not getting separation the classic sense like a WR would against man. I point that out because he is a great route runner and our best WR against zone defenses. Which is important because of the way Allen runs with the ball, it forces teams to play zone. Now, more important is the issue of what an average full time starting receiver is capable of. This is big for me, since it is pretty obvious that when people talk about the full time starter they are really talking about the WR1. If you think Zay isn't at the very least, average, you are wrong. I mean, just look at the stats. He is mid 40s-50s in ypc, yards, catches, etc. There are 32 teams, 64 starting WRs (more since most teams actually start 3 wrs). He is perfectly average, and thus deserving of a starting spot.

Look at this way. I think he had two, you think he had more. What is the objective tie breaker? The NFL stats department. Maybe the coaches didn't give him a pass, but we don't know. The fact that they didn't draft a WR is probably a good indicator they don't view it how you say.

You know Zay's number is 11, right? I counted two true drops. I counted four passes that were uncatchable. That would comport with the NFL stats, since Zay officially has three drops on the entire 2018 season.

Just because Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round doesn't mean 6th round QBs are destined for greatness. I realize its an extreme comparison, but undrafted WRs rarely make football things. It could happen, sure, but the odds are wayyyy against him. I mean, come on. We have probably spent an hour or more of our day posting on the message board. Do you really think either of is not the type of Bills nerds that would pay for the All-22 during the season and re-watch this stuff?

I mean, this is devolving to the point that without film, this isn't going anywhere. But the season is around the corner. Zay will be on the team. Zay will get greater than 50% of the snaps. It is clear the coaching staff disagrees with this entire thread. And that bolded part, if you really believe that, there is just no reasoning with you. That is just a silly statement. We brought in two starters, and then a bunch of scrubs. Sills might make the team, but that is a long shot. Duke is not going to make the team. Roberts is a specialist, so he might, but he isn't getting snaps at WR. There is little to no real competition for Zay's spot.

Its amazing that after that draft, where we didn't draft a single WR, more people who have agreed with that OP haven't walked away realizing they just have no idea what they are talking about. I understand saying he has too many drops (he actually only had 3 last year), because that was a problem for him his rookie year, but to say he doesn't get separation is just wrong. It is like saying vaccines are bad for children. Sure, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's wrong. Like, as a point of fact, it is just wrong.

He definitely isn't a game breaker. And that is ok. Robert Woods isn't a game breaker. Stevie Johnson wasn't. The list goes on. He just needs to be a good WR that gets open. He does that. He sucked his rookie year, foooor sure. But he didn't his second year. I think the real problem is peoples vision of him is clouded by his terrible rookie year. His progress just isn't taken into consideration. But more importantly, I just don't think the fact that he isn't this mystical "WR1" means that he shouldn't be an NFL starter, or even a back up. That is just a huge disconnect for me. I mean, with his production last year, there is just no argument that he isn't at least a WR3. Could anyone do what he has done? Maybe. That is sort of an unprove-able assertion.

Well, its more like manure that is in the process of turning into a flower. Based of course on his upward trajectory. Look, I'm never opposed to upgrades. But there aren't any upgrades. Zay is arguably the second best receiver on the roster. And since he is continuing to get better, there is literally no reason to trade him (notice I didn't say cut...lol).

He was, but he is a fullback, its a position that is easy to go unnoticed. I don't expect the fullback to "make play," I expect him to block.

You are attributing bad WR play to bad QB play, but not giving the same benefit to Zay. That is a wild contradiction. Look, people said the same about Zay after his rookie year, and what did he do? He almost doubled his production. He is on an upward trend. Why would that trend stop after year 2? How can a player trending up have no "upside?"

This is a mind boggling contradiction.

The PMT interview was done first. Honestly, the worst part was McShay talking all that trash all the while admitting he hadn't watch every snap Josh Allen played.

He had the most catches of any Bills WR since 2016, but sure since the Bills are so loaded with WR talent they should move on. Also, not for nothing, he had 3 drops last year. Its pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about, and being driven by his Rookie year narrative (which went completely out the window in year 2).

McShay is a little two faced. PMT is all about Josh Allen, so McShay played up his Josh Allen love. The other day, though, McShay laughed at Kiper for thinking Josh Allen was a good NFL quarterback.

Maybe, but Daboll does. That 6th WR will never see the field. DiMarco saw 15% of snaps last year. Its the difference between 0% and 15%. This seems like a no-brainer to me.

Its also all relative. Lawson ended up having a pretty average first round rookie contract compared to that draft class. In other draft classes he would look worse, but in his, he is average.

Well this is hyperbole at its worst. What exactly do you expect from your 3rd round DE?

It is electric every time you decide to chime in.

The first part was compelling, but the second part about Gore playing FB is a suppppper long shot. He is Frank Gore, that would be disrespectful to even suggest he play FB. And 15% is more than the 6th WR will see the field. Now, them not bringing in a second FB might be a sign Dimarco is on the way out, but if that were the case, why bring him into camp? There is no need to run FB sets if they don't plan on having a FB on the roster. I realize your Gore theory would explain that, but I see that as next to impossible.

DiMarco would be way more important to the every down offense than the 6th WR. The 6th WR's only true value would be as a special teams contributor.