VW82

The early turnovers and short field position definitely helped the first half scoreboard. That said, Allen was much better than at any point during the preseason or through the first two weeks. He consistently made plays, both with his legs and his arm, some of which were downright spectacular. Our receivers didn't do him any favours with all those drops. Daboll/McD took their foot off the gas in the second half so his numbers weren't as impressive as they could have been. Now for the bad. He had one dropped INT in the first quarter and three fumbles, all of which we were lucky to recover. He's still sloppy with the football trying to do too much. He's still slow going through his progressions. He still has no idea what's coming from the defense pre-snap. Romo called him out for this a couple of times during the game.

Best player on the field today by far.

He's still the best receiver on the roster. He stays through this year and then we hope like hell someone is dumb enough to pay him so we get a comp pick out of it.

Said this in the game thread but he had four turnovers this game that didn't result in actual turnovers due to sheer dumb luck: dropped INT in the 1st Q + three fumbles we recovered. Kid was much better but he still has a long ways to go.

Allen needs to be a little more careful with the football. So far today he has three fumbles and one dropped INT. On another day that could have been four turnovers and a very different scoreboard.

It's not just the play calling though. It's that this team was a circus the first two weeks with the benchings, and the Davis retirement, and former players taking shots in the media. McD clearly got these guys unified and ready to play. This is a statement against one of the better defenses in the league. Buffalo isn't going to fold, and McD isn't going anywhere.

So umm...Allen is basically white Cam Newton in this game. Unreal.

Not gonna lie this made me laugh a little...and then get kinda sad

As long as he's better than 15/31 for 169 and 2 picks and doesn't look like Sammy Darnold I'm satisfied.

So we back to saying Jets suck now? I say yes. They just lost to a team that was 1-32-1. Also, if they wind up with first overall pick should they take Bosa or that QB for Oregon?

Captioning this so it can't be edited later.

I would just like to point out that Browns covered ? This really couldn't have gone any better for them unless Hue Jackson had retired at halftime.

People argued Tyrod was good? You're just making that up.

It ain't pretty that's for sure.

Yeah I'm way late though. 40+ pages...feels like I might have missed a bit.

If Allen starts putting together in rhythm drives like Baker did tonight the running game will open up. We just need to get defenses to respect the pass first.

Gotta say, congratulations to Browns fans! Baker looks incredible. That franchise deserves to have a little hope. Now it's our turn. Edit: too bad we don't play them this year, but I'm looking forward to Nov 11.

Anyone notice how in the first half tonight Brown's o-line looked overmatched with Tyrod, and then awesome in the second half with Baker? It's not because they got a new o-line. It's because Baker reads the defense and gets the ball out on time and with accuracy, which then opens up the run game. He looked amazing. Congrats to Browns fans. Hopefully Josh can get to that point soon.

I think it's unfair to compare Allen to Manning and Ryan and Wilson, all of whom showed they were better prepared to start coming into their rookie seasons. I also think it's unfair to compare him to guys like Cam or Watson who had better athletic ability to help them overcome the steep learning curve of being an NFL QB. We just fundamentally disagree on the fourth paragraph, I guess. Again, I think when you're so green that you can't diagnose the rush pre-snap or get through your progressions on time it's going to expose you to more hits. Also, putting him in a bunch of read options where he feels the need to keep and make a play (because it's not going so well when he drops back to pass) is also exposing him to a higher risk of injury. He's a big kid and a better athlete than I thought, but I'm not sure that's the best way to develop him. At this stage, we have to play Allen. That road got crossed the moment McD announced he was starting. We dropped the ball not coming into camp with a better QB situation which would have allowed him more time to learn. I think those first 6-8 weeks are invaluable for a rookie QB to see how a vet prepares, game plans, debriefs, corrects for the next week, etc. But yeah, they shouldn't change anything now. It would be a tough vote of no confidence. Have to just hope he overcomes the tough spot he's been put in. Despite the tone of my posts, I'm rooting for him.

You can say it's nonsense all you want, but there a lot of really smart football people out there who seem to think it's not. Also, common sense would suggest throwing a kid into a job before he's ready might risk his confidence (self and coworkers) if he sinks rather than swims early. That goes for any job, not just football. Perhaps you're being a little dismissive here. Look at the best QBs in the NFL over the last 10 years: Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Rivers...now Mahomes, Goff. They all waited to start. All success stories. Some guys like Manning and Ryan and Wilson started right away and found success, but they also won their starting jobs in camp and showed they were ready. There's no perfect, one size fits all solution but it's hard to argue with the results of the guys who weren't initially ready and waited. Also, Steve DeBerg started the first 11 games in Young's rookie year. He got to wait. Who says Allen wasn't ready? McDermott and Allen. Allen said the preseason was too fast for him after this start vs. Cinci, and McD said it by giving the job to Peterman after a three month long battle. Again, I'm not saying anything will happen. It's about risk. We're exposing Allen to increased risk that something might happen (i.e. he gets hurt, loses his confidence, team loses its confidence in him). He made some decisions in that Chargers game which exposed him to taking huge shots, particularly the keep near the endzone in the 3rd q (to say nothing of all the missed protections where rushers got free shots on him). BTW that's exactly how Wentz got injured. Being inexperienced, and naive, and trying to do just a little too much. Young players are going to make mistakes whether they're first or second year players, but it's not completely insane to suggest that perhaps guys who have waited and learned a little longer or have better talent around when they do play won't be as prone to messing up and getting hurt. The QB eye level stuff after taking a bunch of hits isn't nonsense. It's common sense.

Although I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that young QBs will fail in bad situations, it definitely makes it harder on them and exposes them to risks you maybe wouldn't be so concerned with in better situations. To me, Ben and Mahomes are great examples of doing it the right way. Mahomes got to sit for a year and learn and slowly win over the confidence of his teammates so that when he finally got his shot he was ready. Ben got thrown in the fire early because of injury, but the Steelers had a championship team around him and only asked him to do things he was capable of. Bills just don't have that. We're playing him too early and asking him to do things he isn't ready for. Because of this teams are able to really key him on him. Allen seems like a tough kid so he should be ok but he's liable to get hurt like this. The biggest concern is will he get so consumed with all these rushers beating him up that he starts to lower his eye level as a habit (to protect himself). Once that happens, it's over. QB PTSD.

Our line is better at pass blocking than run blocking (though they kinda suck at both tbh), and Shady isn't the guy he was two years ago. Plus he's hurt. Don't expect this to change much. Holding the ball long isn't that big of a deal if you have good pocket presence, and can feel the rush while still keeping your eyes down field. Allen is still figuring that part out. Some of the pressures wouldn't have been pressures with Ben or Brady back there because they're so good at seeing a lineman getting pushed back and stepping up in the pocket or off to the side and away from the rush to buy those extra couple of seconds needed to get rid of it. We've seen a few instances where Allen doesn't move and the lineman gets pushed right into him, and then he tucks the ball, puts his head down and runs. Peterman was doing this too. He'll improve. The bigger issue IMO, and what Daboll was referring to with the "free rushers" comment, is getting better at pre-snap QB reads on rushers. That's where so many of the problems are starting.

Is it possible to sticky this thread and perhaps alter the title so as to help lower clutter on the first page on why it was such a dumb idea to rebuild?

Think we're stuck with Star for two more years after this one, unless we're able to trade him (unlikely). He has an out in his contract in 2021 where the dead cap hit isn't crazy. Can't see us taking another one technique guy. Bosa would be nice, but I'd seriously look at the Oregon QB if we're picking first and there's any doubt about Josh.

It's just so hard to have good overall line play when your center is weak and ineffective. It's great that the guards have been ok, especially Ducasse which is stunning. I don't agree that the tackles have been that good, and we get virtually no push in the run game. Frankly, it's so hard to evaluate this stuff when your QBs are that out to lunch with the pre-snap protections and assignments. Everyone needs to be graded on a curve. I have no idea how PFF got to those numbers.