VW82
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Posts posted by VW82
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Fair write up though I'm hesitant to give Whaley credit for anything without mentioning that he wasted 5+ years of all of our collective time with bad football decisions. Good riddance!
If you look at the four game sample size since Allen has returned, he's 57/114 for 801 yards, 4 TDs, 4 INTs, 7.02 YPA. It's not great but when you consider all the big plays, the scrambles, the fact he has little help at receiver...it's enough to think he might be a player we can build around. For me this is the first time he's hit that check point - I get a lot of people here hit that check point the moment we drafted him - and it's because of his development on the field. That said, he still needs to figure out how to score points. We've only averaged 19.5 points since Josh has returned and that isn't nearly enough. He's left some points out there.
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The one thing we haven't seen yet from Allen is a kick ass passing performance where he racks up 350+ yards and 3+ passing TDs. He needs some cooperation from the receivers but I feel like we're not that far off.
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5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:
What I liked is he got more time and it coincided with more good throws from the pocket
I think that's probably true of every QB. What I liked is he seemed to make better decisions yesterday. There was a pass attempt (incomplete) in the middle of the 3rd when he scanned the field for like five seconds and was eventually chased out of the pocket to the right. He keeps his head up the whole time trying to find someone and eventually throws it away. The replay showed the coverage at each step, and legitimately there was no one open the entire time. That's progress.
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I think he threw downfield a lot yesterday because a) guys weren't getting open initially, and b) he just waited too long to make a decision a few times. I'll be interested to see where Josh ranks this week in ave time in the pocket. For all the heat our oline takes, Allen had lots time on a bunch of throws yesterday. It was nice to see. Mckenzie going down hurt.
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Here's every one of the throws detailed. I got to 61.9% (13/21). How can anyone possibly get to 13/18 without being a complete homer??
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So in other words, if we don't count his first six weeks when he was really bad, and adjust his completion percentage for all these drops and throwaways, he's still only 23rd in accuracy. If you include all his games I bet he's still last in adjusted completion %.
Also , in order to get to 72% they would have to discount eight incompletions. I went through every one of those throws and got to five. You could get to six if you count the Thompson bomb (where he laid out but couldn't come up with it) as a drop. Are they grading every QB like this? Seems fishy.
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27 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:
How many would you consider “inaccurate”?
You might have a different definition but my idea of accuracy is a “catchable” ball, a reasonable chance it would get caught and/or put in a place to make a positive play. Even on completed passes, an inaccurate throw made the receiver make a negative play (was wide open and could have made a much more positive play if thrown well). Also take into account pressure and expectation of making a good throw.
Great question. I'm attempting to go deeper than just "inaccurate", and actually determine fault. I think three of his 26 throws this week were some version of badly inaccurate / bad throw. He missed the target a number of other times, but you have to take circumstance into account. For example, that 3rd quarter throw to Thomspon. Josh missed him but he was also running to the left sideline and having to throw back across his body. Hard throw to hold against him. Same with the 4th quarter bomb to Thompson. It wasn't either of their fault. A better receiver would have come up with that catch; a better QB wouldn't have required his receiver to lay out for it in the first place.
3 bad throws in 26 attempts this week. We can live with that. 7 bad throws in 36 attempts last week was too high. It sounds overly simplistic but more bad throws = more turnovers, and so I think it's important we look at this stuff.
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Back by popular demand is my attempt to go through and categorize each of Josh's throws so we can see how he's progressing as a passer beyond the traditional stats or conjecture. I'm adding conclusions after each description to be categorized, so we can look at more things than just bad throws. Link to previous week's thread at the bottom. Here we go.
1st quarter:
12:14 - underneath throw complete to Mckenzie for four yards (complete)
11:35 - Josh throws quick left to Mckenzie for nine yards and a first down (complete)
9:40 - quick throw right to Mckenzie behind the LOS, nice YAC (complete)
9:07 - play action roll out right. No one's open. (incomplete, throwaway)
2:30 - nice pocket, lots of time. Allen finds Foster for eight yards and a first. (complete)
1:07 - lots of time, Allen finds Zay for seven yards with a really hard throw. (complete)
0:26 - Allen gets chased out of the pocket right but almost throws a pick along the sideline (incomplete, bad throw/decision)
Summary: 5-7 passing, one throwaway, one bad throw / decision
2nd quarter:
10:00 - Nice throw over the middle to Mckenzie for 11 and a first. (complete)
9:25 - play action with a nice throw by Josh complete to Foster for 25 yards. (complete, big time throw)
8:56 - we take a shot to Foster on a post route which Foster messes up in his adjustment to the ball but still draws the PI (penalty, big time throw)
3:46 - play action over the middle to Mckenzie for 16 yards and a first. (complete)
2:44 - play action roll out to the right. (incomplete, throwaway)
2:37 - Allen thinks he has a free play and takes a shot down the sideline (incomplete)
0:33 - throw short and complete to Mckenzie for three yards (complete)
0:14 - Allen scrambled around and throws a bomb that's more or less on target. Defender makes a nice play to knock away from Zay. (incomplete)
Summary: 4-7 passing, one throwaway, two big time throws
3rd quarter:
12:52 - quick throw out and throw to Ford for seven yards. (complete)
8:33 - Allen has tonnes of time, doesn't like what he sees and eventually scrambles right, still doesn't like it and throws away (incomplete, throwaway).
8:22 - on 3rd and 6 Allen throws downfield to Zay who's double covered, but he overshoots everyone. (incomplete, bad throw/decision)
5:46 - play action roll out left. Allen throws across his body (on the move) down field to Thompson and over shoots him. Really difficult throw. (incomplete)
5:40 - tonnes of time in the pocket. Allen eventually finds Foster down field for 31 yards. Foster almost bobbles it OB. (complete, big time throw)
Summary: 2-5 passing, one throwaway, one bad throw/decision, one big time throw
4th quarter:
14:02 - Josh takes a shot down field and puts it this close to being on target. Thompson dives for it and gets his hands on it but can't come up with the catch. (incomplete) **I expect this will be hotly contested. Many will say this is a drop. Here's the deal: if the receiver has to lay out for the ball then it's at least a little on the QB. I'm not saying this was a bad throw. It was almost a great throw, but sometimes almost = incomplete pass**
13:54 - Josh rifles one to Zay over the middle, and he can't hold on. (incomplete, dropped pass)
13:47 - Lots of time in the pocket. Josh throws to Zay along the right sideline but the CB makes a nice play on the ball (incomplete)
11:09 - Again lots of time in the pocket. Josh goes to Zay again in single coverage an this time Zay gets the flag. (penalty)
11:03 - trick play where Allen runs out right then throws back across the field behind LOS to Ford who runs for five yards (complete, penalty)
10:35 - Another great pocket for Allen who completes a beautiful pass to Foster for 42 yards and the TD (complete, big time throw)
5:08 - read option. Allen chooses to keep but then Clay can't get free and so Allen throws it away (incomplete, throwaway)
5:02 - Josh has loads of time, eventually there's a hold on the oline when he scrambles right and throws to the first down market. Dropped INT. (incomplete, bad throw/decision)
2:46 - Josh puts nice touch on a ball to Croom off play action for 25 yards (complete, big time throw)
2:00 - Josh draws the defense off side but misses Foster over the middle (penalty)
Summary: 2-7 passing, one throwaway, one dropped pass, one bad throw/decision, one big time throw
Game Summary: 13-26 passing, four throwaways, one dropped pass, three bad passes/decisions, four big time throws
Much better game from Josh today even though his stats weren't as great. For comparison, last week he had 7 bad passes/decisions in 36 attempts, so the decision making is improving. Last week he also had three big times throws, four dropped passes, and four throwawys.
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I watched Williams almost cost the Browns the game last night. They're up one on the road with 2 mins to go and the ball on the 10, and instead of taking the easy FG and making the Broncos go the length of the field (even though they were struggling all night and had only put up 16 points), instead he goes goes for it on 4th down and doesn't make it. Browns D stopped them on the last drive and so they won the game anyways, but with no thanks to their coach.
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Man that's a soft PI
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Wow. Allen apologizers need only to show those three back to back to back throws and drops / poor plays on the ball and nothing more needs to be said. That was just painful.
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Hoooo Man. Just missed him.
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Allen needs to take over on this drive. No one is helping and all the running backs are gone. If we start handing off to DiMarco I'm turning the game off.
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Thank goodness Stafford sucks.
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That whole sequence was dumb. Between that call and the decision not to throw away in the first quarter this should be a tie game.
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Our receivers man...
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So much for the running game
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4 minutes ago, MDH said:
Wallace didn’t have it in his chest, he had it pinned to his shoulder which is why it was easy to rip away on the way to the ground.
Is it on the way to the ground or is Wallace's knee down before he gets there and loses the ball? Sure looked like the latter on first review. Love to see the replay again.
Edit: went back and watched it again. I'd give the INT to Wallace. There's more than enough evidence.
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2 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:
I think that’s why Detroit snapped the ball so quick.
I thought Wallace had it and Golliday didn’t take it away until after Wallace’s knees touched the ground.
Exactly. Call a time out there and get a better look at it. There was enough on the replay before they snapped it to make that call.
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2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:
No way there would of been enough to overturn that.
Wallace clearly catches it in his chest and has both hands on the ball. Galloday also has one hand in there. Then at some point between the initial catch and them coming up from the ground Galloday manages to steal it. I would have at least called time out to get a better review. It wound up leading to a TD.
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I would have challenged that catch. Looked like an INT to me. Wallace caught it then had it taken away when they were on the ground.
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Superstar TD. Wow.
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Nice throw by Allen. Foster kind of got bailed out there by the defender after adjusting late.
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Finally got to watch the game...it was good to see Josh in the pocket
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Things you learn at TBD: Allen is basically just as good as Mahomes. Oh and you forgot Mahomes has a great Oline and one of the best offensive football coaches of the last 20 years. Respectfully, I'm going to disagree.