JGMcD2

Either CB2 or FS.

Then you’re very rarely going to “win.” Being focused on the outcome as the measure of success can be tricky.

I agree with all of this. I just find the distortion of the events by the media funny depending on the player. You mean to tell me that if the line sucks and your skill players don’t make plays, the QB isn’t going to look as good as he would when the line blocks and your skill players make plays? color me surprised. Someone should’ve told that to the media when Josh was getting chased around his first two years in the league with little blocking and his best weapons were Robert Foster and John Brown. Sure, he made some bonehead plays, but it was never always all on him.

San Francisco (won’t happen for obvious reasons) Indianapolis New Orleans (Cap space will make it nearly impossible)

I agree, I think everyone in their right mind agrees the Bills need to start beating the Chiefs off the field and then on. I don’t think anyone is arguing that. If you want to start the clock with Reid’s arrival, fine, it’s not unreasonable. If you’re going to do that, you need to concede that since McBeane arrived they have considerably closed the gap. We can all agree the Bills were futile for a long time, but we can’t pin anything pre-2017 on McDermott and Beane. If you want to bash the Pegula family for the wrong decisions prior, but that isn’t an indication of what this group has done in 4 years. Bash McBeane for going 1-2 against KC so far, with the 2 losses coming in brutal fashion this year, or trading the pick that became Mahomes. That is all perfectly fine, but I’m not really following the logic that Reid is 5-1 against Buffalo. These guys weren’t calling the shots for 3 of those games. It has no bearing over them, I’m sorry. We’re not in the same conversation as KC at the moment, I’m acknowledging that. The point @Inigo Montoya was trying to make is that the gap has been closed and we are in the conversation to make that leap. Things need to be done to make that happen this off-season. The oddsmakers believe we’re going back to the AFCCG next season and as the team with the 3rd best odds in the entire NFL of winning it all.

Please don’t ever change. As much as you irritate me, I do like you.

You, @BADOLBILZ and @Mr. WEO. Has anyone ever seen you guys together all at once? I swear you’re the same guy.

How is it silly? You’re going to B word about the Bills because they’re competitive and seen as one of the Super Bowl favorites and got to that point in a shorter amount of time than the odds on favorite? Nobody is comparing teams, they’re comparing the steps they took to being a Super Bowl contender.

That’s a different timeline than the OP was discussing. It’s a valid point, but irrelevant related to the discussion the OP was starting. He’s comparing the path the Bills have taken to where they are to the path Chiefs took to get to the point where they are. So again, you’re penalizing Buffalo for finding a franchise QB before KC. Reid got 4 years to accumulate talent and screw around with Alex Smith before McDermott even walked through the door in Buffalo. Essentially your argument is Reid Chiefs > McDermott Bills because Reid Chiefs had a 4 year head start on finding the talent they wanted. It took KC under Reid 7 years? 6 to reach an AFCCG. 4 to reach an AFCCG for Buffalo.

I want to make sure we get this timeline right. The McDermott Bills are behind the Reid Chiefs because it took the Chiefs 5 years to find a franchise QB and 6 to make an AFC Championship game. It took the Bills 1 year to find a franchise QB and 4 to make an AFC Championship game. The Chiefs also had 4 drafts prior to McDermott even arriving where they acquired players like Kelce, Jones and Tyreek Hill who are their top players. But somehow they’re behind? Basically they’re penalized for finding a really good QB earlier than KC did?

Haha.

The OP is clearly talking about the path the Chiefs took when Reid arrived compared to the path the Bills took when Beane and McDermott arrived and you blatantly ignored that to spew your dogma. Nobody is telling the story of the two franchises, everyone knows the Bills were wholly incompetent pre-McDermott, the 17 year playoff drought is pretty hard evidence. @Thurman#1 is spot on. If you’re really trying to critique McDermott and Beane based on what the Bills did from 2013 up until 2017, then you’re just doing your thing and trying to stir the pot. I know you’re going to say it matters because the Beane ripped apart a team “equally as talented” as KC at the time. Do me a favor and go back and look at those rosters pre-2017 and tell me how many guys that you wish we still had that we could have reasonably kept that would be contributing today?

People are likely going to argue that we’re in a worse position than KC was. They’re going to say KC had a Super Bowl caliber roster that was short a QB and then were able to keep it together for a few years with a young QB making a rookie salary when they hit their peak. Whereas Buffalo is going to have to give Josh a big contract before that peak comes in Buffalo. That’s what they’re going to say. I don’t agree, but that’s going to be the argument. Also, something about Beane being a crappy drafter because he doesn’t make enough high risk picks, but they crucify him when he makes high risk picks and they don’t immediately become as good as they read they would be on Bleacher Report. Also, probably something about wasting money. They’ll probably say that too.

I’m agree with most of it, even though like 50% of the guys you’re cutting are FA (Norman, Smith, Jones and Barkley). You lost me with a RD1 RB. There’s minimal value in that always and it won’t fix our inconsistent/horrible run blocking. I am all for beefing up both the OL and DL though.

I remember when @Billl told me how amazing Townsend was because he held a few XP. Now I know why he didn’t mention anything about his punting ability!

Yeah I think that’s fair, but if you look at the fact we have a player who has the ability to be that player already on the roster, we’re in an enviable position compared to say, the Colts who don’t have their QB on the roster or the Ravens who aren’t pulling an impact WR out of thin air. When looking at acquiring the tools to make a team successful, I think Beane has added a player that has the ability to be an impact player at the key spots. We might not necessarily have to “chase” a player like other teams. I would say the 5 most important positions, in order, are QB, LT, DE/Pass Rusher, CB, WR. We’ve straight up secured 4/5 of those that we can argue are actually elite. Allen, Dawkins, White and Diggs. The pass rusher is missing, BUT if you’re right, he is already on the roster. If we want to look at those other teams for comparison real quick.. IND QB: ? LT: It’s may be Nelson who is an elite guard DE/RUSH: Leonard CB: ? (Rhodes if they bring him back) WR: Pittman looks solid, but hardly elite WSH: QB: Yikes LT: ? DE: Chase Young, uh huh. CB: ? WR: McLaurin BAL: QB: Jackson LT: Stanley DE: ? Judon/Yannick if brought back CB: A few guys here WR: ? Hollywood Brown but he’s not elite TB: QB: Brady LT: Donovan Smith DE: ? guys need to be brought back, but Barrett CB: Some young guys there WR: Evans and Godwin if brought back CLE: QB: Baker LT: Wills DE: Garrett CB: Ward WR: Odell When looking at it that way, I would say without a doubt I wouldn’t want to be WSH or IND (Solely because there’s no path to a QB right now). BAL, TB, CLE I guess you can argue for them over Buffalo. I personally would take all of our guys over everyone CLE has except Garrett. BAL I’d prefer Stanley to Dawkins maybe and then whichever pass rusher. TB I think has the best situation on paper, but that’s why they’re in the Super Bowl. I would take Buffalo’s situation and future situation over just about every team in the league. I personally feel KC has been the best run organization since McBeane got here. IND is #2, but the QB is a huge issue, it’s not all their fault but if they don’t find one it’s a waste. After that I legitimately think you can make an argument for BUF, BAL and NO (yes, I know the cap issues but they’re really very good at finding talent) to round out the top 5. Beane has found talent at all the key positions, sans RUSH but we think we might have one. If he can find one/repurpose Edmunds and get Josh a play making TE (Knox is another frustrating player but has the toolbox of skills where MAYBE it could be him) I really think we’re in a better spot than almost any other team, because from there it becomes finding some value plays in FA and some contributors in later rounds, which they’ve shown they can do... budget will be tighter so the value plays will be guys even further down the list, but they’ve shown they’re capable. Getting that elite pass rusher REALLY changes everything though.

I can’t necessarily argue with your first point at all. If you’re going to admit you liked Edmunds but think he’s playing out of position, I can’t argue with that at all. I completely agree with you that the Colts have the best roster in the AFC and probably football outside of the QB position, but I think we can agree that until Ballard finds that long term solution it doesn’t really matter. The cap space doesn’t like it will help that this year. WFT are a pretty flawed team, they’re still missing a QB and really an offense. I do like the pieces they have in McLaurin and Gibson but they’ve got a long way to go. The Bucs have $40M but they have major players like Godwin, Barrett and Brown hitting FA. Those are major players that need to be replaced. The Ravens have major players hitting FA. The Browns need to find an entire defense outside of DE and CB with $30M. So yes, we’re in a little bit of a pickle cap space wise at the moment and we’re likely losing Milano and Williams in FA. To me cap space and financially are a little different. Sure the Bucs have $40M but Godwin, Brown and Barrett likely eat all of that if they try to bring them back. They won’t really have the ability to upgrade anything either. I guess the difference is they can likely bring all 3 back where we’re going to have to cut/restructure some folks to keep any of our major FA? We’re also not chasing any of our core guys. Diggs, Dawkins, White are all locked up and Josh has 2 more years and will undoubtedly be locked up himself. Yes, they have a better cap situation but taking EVERYTHING into account financially which of those teams are really in a better spot than Buffalo?

They traded a 1st and 3rd to move up in the 1st and got a 5th back as well. It didn’t set the franchise back. I’d say it was pretty reasonable to move up from 22 to 16. I don’t understand the issue with drafting the player with elite physical traits? I mean people routinely have been bashing Beane for not being aggressive enough and taking players with elite traits, but when he does it and it doesn’t work it was dumb to draft a player with elite traits? Which one do we want people? Because we can’t flip flop what we B word and moan about.

They have the same amount of repetitions. It’s just that White’s age 20 season was at LSU while Tremaine’s was in the NFL. I’m not really privy to the things that White went back to school to work on and what Tremaine has worked on, but I would venture to guess that White was able to focus on his deficiencies in a comfortable environment as a returning player at LSU while Edmunds was adjusting to being a professional player and working on his deficiencies. One guy had a little more on their plate. Edmunds was considered to have elite traits, but was still seen a development prospect with the ability to develop into an elite player. He fell to 16 for a reason, if he was closer to a finished product with his skill set he’s likely going higher, maybe Top 5 like White? I said pretty elite AND close to finished product for a reason. Both were important to the overall statement. It’s no longer worth discussing because you will absolutely never move off any of your points as you’ve made very clear before. It’s a waste of my time.

Agreed on the MLB point. With that being said, aren’t you the one who takes swipes at Beane because he doesn’t do a good enough job of finding elite players and drafting guys with elite traits like Metcalf? I feel like he made an attempt here and the results have been mixed. Any reason why it’s bad that he made an attempt at this type of player with elite traits? Also, it’s been like 24 hours and you still haven’t told me which playoff teams have a better cap situation than Buffalo. Waiting on that one because I’m genuinely curious.

Devin White is actually a few months older (semantics) and drafted a year later. He was also selected in the top 5 because he was considered a pretty elite and close to finished product. Funny enough, his first two seasons aren’t all that different than Tremaine’s.

It has nothing to do with being mature and hard working. That’s not the age argument. Players his age are experiencing these growing pains while still in college. He’s had to endure them while in the NFL. He was able to lean on his size and speed in college, he can’t do that in the pros. The big knocks on him coming out were that he was able to get away with a lot in college because he was genetically superior. The other was that he needed to put on more size to shed blocks. There’s been some growth but not a lot... is it completely out of the realm to believe he’s still growing and adjusting to his body at 22? I really don’t know how you can discount the fact that he’s spending formative years in the NFL while most do it in college. What do you think the result is if you dump a bunch of 20 year old players into the NFL? NFL coaches and players are looking up the round a guy was drafted in and making their decision to send a guy to the Pro Bowl because of that?

It’s simple. NFL coaches and players are absolute idiots, only reason he could have possibly been a Pro Bowl selection.

I’m saying he’s doing the learning and growing that most 20, 21 and 22 year old LBs are doing while they’re still playing CFB. Whether that’s an excuse for him or not is up to you. I looked a few months ago but if I remember correctly most of the top LBs coming out this year are the same age or older than Edmunds. If folks are going to criticize Beane for not taking enough swings for players with elite traits, you can’t complain when the players with elite traits that he does take don’t pan out right away. It’s the same old song and dance every day here. Yeah that’s a symptom of having zero pass rush. It’s been covered pretty extensively. CBs have a hard time running around with WR/TE for a long time, I guess LBs aren’t supposed to?

Repetition over his life time. Similar to the reason many used in order to defend Josh for not being an elite player in his first two seasons.