JGMcD2

If MVP voters want to contradict themselves after how they voted last year, that’s their prerogative. Lamar had 29 total TD last year to Josh’s 44. Josh also had like 500 more yards of total offense. Lamar won because his team was the higher seed, and his stats were good enough, plain and simple. The Ravens might not even win their division this year, their signature win so far is against Buffalo over 10 weeks ago. Unless Josh absolutely implodes down the stretch, they’ll be completely contradicting themselves.

He has never legitimately advocated for targeting kneecaps. He used “biting kneecaps” as a metaphor in his first press conference - it was hilarious. As for the fingers and whatnot in the scrum, welcome to football. I am sure our players do it too, along with 30 other teams. Let’s not make things up here.

Well, considering we weren’t punting, we had 9 players on the field not including the punter.

It’s never too early? You literally said you waited after last week, clearly you felt it was too early then 😂

You’re just conveniently forgetting the absolute ***** Josh Allen gave him in 2021?

You’re the king of starting threads WAY too early. He hasn’t played in 2 years, do you really think 2 weeks is enough of a sample size to make the determination “rusty or washed” ? 🤦🏻

What ST only guys do we have? Outside of K, P and LS?

That was nearly 10 years (or more) ago. How did he look against the last elite QB he faced in the playoffs?

Yeah, totally fair. Let’s just apply the same logic to all of the success too, not just the failures…

You disagreed with me, then walked through the logic and agreed with me? They weren’t in comfortable FG range to begin with, they were likely going for it on 4th and 7 because taking that risk to go up 6 wasn’t going to make a difference. You back them up to 3rd and 17 and you’re playing the odds that that play results in a small gain, or possibly even no gain. Now they have to punt because going for it isn’t an option.

That’s fair, and I totally agree. It was a mistake and one that essentially ended the game. That being said, we also have to recognize that he was playing the odds when he accepted the holding penalty to force a 3rd and 17.

@GunnerBill already answered this nicely below, the biggest piece is providing the correct environment for the player to develop. I am going to speak from personal experience here, different sport, but at the highest level: The key stakeholders (GM, Head Coach, AGM, etc.) are all VERY aware of what is happening with their priority players Not only are they very aware, but they're HEAVILY involved with designing and monitoring the development plan for each player More often than not, they delegate those responsibilities to other coaches and staff members, because it would be unrealistic to expect the key stakeholders to be hands on daily with every priority player, even if it's the most important player Truthfully, players tend to grow quite tired of being monitored by the "key stakeholders" and prefer to have a relationship with their position coach, who is then directly responsible for communicating every detail back up the chain. My longwinded point being, Matt LaFleur was undoubtedly handling the development of Jordan Love the same way McDermott did. I actually have proof that LaFleur was handling Jordan Love's development the exact same way. They specifically brought back Tom Clements at the QB coach, who Aaron Rodgers cited a major part of his development, in order to work with Jordan Love. HC Matt LaFleur says Jordan Love has made ‘huge strides,’ credits Packers QB coach Tom Clements There are still question marks over the young quarterback's ability to fill the shoes of the four-time MVP, but as long as the Packers have quarterbacks coach Tom Clements, head coach Matt LaFleur knows that Love will continue to improve. "Just watching him last year. I think Jordan's made some huge strides," LeFleur told reporters Saturday. "I really do and I think a lot of it is a credit to Tom, and just, he knows how to train these guys. He knows how to drill them and he's very, very consistent. He doesn't sugarcoat anything. He just is matter of fact and I think there's no doubt." So, if you're giving LaFleur credit, McDermott is getting it too. Don't be fooled by their background on one side of the ball or the other. Contrast all of this with Kyle Shanahan who gave up on his hand-selected QB after 4 games because he didn't have the patience to create the correct environment and carry out a plan to develop him.

They’re giving LaFleur credit for developing Jordan Love, but somehow developing Josh Allen happened independent of Sean McDermott? Make it make sense.

Many here would absolutely love to can McDermott and bring in Sean Payton.

Thanks for fixing it. What is Shanahan's record when his QB has a QBR below 65?

You've been pounding this stat the entire thread. He has not been above that threshold in every season he has played. Josh had a sub 50 QBR in 2018 and the Bills went 6-10. (Bills were 5-6 when he started) Josh had a sub 50 QBR in 2019 and the Bills went 10-6. *Bonus* Tyrod Taylor had a sub 60 QBR in 2017 and the Bills went 9-7. So the Bills are 2 games above .500 in the McDermott era when they have below 65+ QBR seasons. Two winning seasons with a QBR below that threshold.

This is still one of my main issues, what is the objective achievement that we're celebrating? If it's winning a Super Bowl, well then, you're saying 31 other teams are automatically failures every year. If it's getting to a Super Bowl, well then that seems odd, because commentary upthread was he's only a "good coach" if he never wins a Super Bowl. Your point boils down to the fact that you believe people cannot improve or improve significantly enough to make a difference. You must have loved Josh Allen on draft day... should I check the receipts?

Yeah, that’s kind of the point. They’re being revered for all of the talent they’ve assembled, but yet they’re on their way to missing the playoffs in 4/8 seasons. They made the decision to trade for Jimmy G and make him the highest paid QB at the time. It’s easy to say in retrospect to say he limited them, but they hitched their wagon to him thinking he was going to take them to the promise land. They made the decision to give up 3 first round picks to select Trey Lance, only to give up on developing him after 4 starts. These decisions are an indictment on them, and a pretty big ones at that. But who cares about context, forces you to think.

Would you take Sean Payton over Sean McDermott?

What am I missing?

They’ve had three cracks at finding their QB, three different ways, and still haven’t been able to do it. They’ve built a talented roster, so they deserve to get as many chances as they want to fail at finding a QB? Lynch and Shanahan felt that Trey Lance was worth moving three 1st Round picks in order to acquire. They must have considered him to be quite talented? Everyone thought they were going to develop the next Josh Allen… but they weren’t capable of doing that. You’re giving too much credit to Shanahan/Lynch and not enough credit to McDermott/Beane. They didn’t just find Josh, they developed him into the wonderful, incredible, proven QB.

And why do we have the right QB? Who is responsible for molding the guy you consider “the best QB” ? I don’t think Josh would turn into Jimmy G with Shanny as his play caller, but I can make a serious argument that Josh never would’ve turned into Josh with Shanny as his HC. Exhibit A: Trey Lance Exhibit B: Robert Griffin III

You’re taking the guys who have been unable to lock down the most important position in football? An offensive mind that can’t get the QB right? Why is it that Ol’ Conservative Defensive McDermott did a better job identifying his QB than Wünderkid Kyle Shanahan? They’ve had 3 separate cracks at it. The amount that McBeane gets flamed here because Elam has been a bust in the back half of RD1 is hysterical considering Lynch/Shanahan gave up the house to pick Trey Lance in the Top 3 picks. If it wasn’t Lance, it was going to be Mac Jones.

He's in historically rare company, let's not act like coaches in the Super Bowl era who are .600 or better are just floating around. It's 22 coaches stretching across 60 seasons. John Madden (1 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Vince Lombardi (2 Conference Championships, 2 Super Bowls) George Allen (1 Conference Championship, 0 Super Bowls) Matt LaFleur (0 Conference Championship, 0 Super Bowls) Don Shula (6 Conference Championship, 2 Super Bowls) Tony Dungy (1 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Sean McDermott (0 Conference Championship, 0 Super Bowl) Andy Reid (5 Conference Championship, 3 Super Bowl) George Seifert (2 Conference Championship, 2 Super Bowl) Bill Belichick (9 Conference Championship, 6 Super Bowl) Mike Tomlin (2 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Bruce Arians (1 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Mike Martz (1 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Bill Cowher (2 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Bud Grant (5 Conference Championship, 0 Super Bowl) Joe Gibbs (4 Conference Championship, 3 Super Bowl) Sean Payton (1 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) John Harbaugh (1 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Marty Schottenheimer (0 Conference Championship, 0 Super Bowl) Mike McCarthy (1 Conference Championship, 1 Super Bowl) Bill Walsh (3 Conference Championship, 3 Super Bowl) Tom Landry (5 Conference Championship, 2 Super Bowl) What's the median on that group? 1 Conference Championship and 1 Super Bowl? You're making the argument that we have a coach who is 1 of 22 coaches in the 60-year era of the Super Bowl with a .600 or better record, and you think it is worth moving on from that guy because, at the moment, in a given season he is 1-2 wins off of his peers? I'm not saying that McDermott doesn't have to stiffen up and win the big one, but all you're showing me here is he's way closer to being one of THE GREATEST EVER than he is to being let go. You realize that right? That when McDermott wins a Super Bowl, he's going to be on pace to be one of the greatest coaches in the history of the National Football League. @GunnerBill has said it upthread, McDermott would get scooped up as fast as Andy Reid did and instantly make his new team a contender. You're continuing to help illustrate why the mindset of "Championship or Bust" is silly. These kinds of coaches don't grow on trees - you're pointing to Marty Schottenheimer like he's the rule, when in reality he's the exception. You cannot do this with every player but considering how raw and unpredictable the outcomes for Josh Allen were as a draft prospect, it is an absolute fact that you do not have the Josh Allen that you have today without Sean McDermott. It's indisputable.

Sean Payton had 1 instance in 16 seasons in New Orleans with a future HOF QB where he won more than 1 playoff game in a given season. Matt LaFleur had a future HOF QB in GB and hasn’t won more than 1 playoff game in a given season. Kevin O’Connell lost to Daniel Jones in the Wild Card round and has never won a playoff game. Nick Sirianni has lost in the Wild Card round twice in 3 playoff appearances. Mike Vrabel who was fired by Tennessee. Jim Harbaugh… he’s not going to last. He doesn’t like the pressure and health won’t hold up. Ryans probably shouldn’t even be in that category - he has plenty to prove. So yeah, they guys with less obvious warts are… Kyle Shanahan who has never beat Andy Reid and the Chiefs, but has made it work with limited QBs. I’d take him. Sean McVay who has had a ton of success, after he upgraded from Goff to a future HOF QB. Otherwise, it’s been a pretty mixed bag. Dan Campbell who I love and would probably be the other guy I’d take over McDermott on that list. Thanks for making me narrow down the group and help further my point. 3/55 hires so about 6% of the hires I’d take over McDermott and about 2% of the candidate pool over the past 7 seasons. I should I also probably point out that only 1 of those non-McDermott coaches (Vrabel) was in the AFC competing with Belichick and Reid. Who ended Vrabel’s improbably playoff run in 2019? Oh yeah, Mahomes and Reid. Payton and Harbaugh are there now, so we’ll see what happens in the AFC West moving forward. Our ceiling is plenty high, arguably higher than any non Reid/Mahomes combo in the league, but that is the point fans get wrong. It’s about the floor in any given year - you need to get to the dance. Once you’re there it’s somewhat unpredictable. By firing McDermott you’re advocating for what would likely be a Doug Pederson, Zac Taylor, Doug Marrone, Mike Vrabel type hot streak in the playoffs that propels you close to a championship. The problem is those guys are extremely volatile (low floor) and you have an even greater chance of missing the dance all together. Has nobody paid attention to what the Chiefs have done/been doing the past 3 seasons? Floor is high, they get to the dance and grind it out.