JGMcD2

As long as he can stay healthy... holy moly. This was the first year he’s missed significant time and it’s because he tried to play through an injury and made it worse. Being banged up and missing a game here and there over 3 seasons isn’t a big deal people...

Yes, culture is a myth. No value and completely made up. Everyone in the organization are just an X and an O that contribute nothing outside of their playing ability. Look at players as fantasy stats or contract numbers and forget that they’re people... this is the way.

You have a better chance of making a Super Bowl that way... If you’re in the playoffs you ALWAYS have a chance... if you mortgage the future for 1-2 seasons you theoretically increase your chances for 2 seasons but it’s still a crapshoot. I’d rather been in the conversation 10 years in a row than load up for 2 years and miss the playoffs for 8.

Well if we’re separating it by Beane, I’ll concede it looks slightly different... although still better than most of the league. I looked at our drafts, PFF did, @GunnerBilldid and everyone is saying just about the same thing... with a few disagreements but the general rankings end up being fairly close... would love to see what you take from it too...

I mean that statement @DCofNCmade is straight up rooted in opinion and not fact. Sucked compared to what? The rest of the NFL over the last 4 years... try again... Again, you’re on this difference maker train and you can’t even tell me how many difference makers other teams have acquired via the draft... you can’t just throw words around without defining and giving examples. @GunnerBill broke it down beautifully in the thread where we discussed this... the Bills have found more difference makers in the draft in the last 4 years than just about any other team outside BAL, NO, WSH and SF... You’re even including Ed Oliver and Tremaine Edmunds as “close” which would put them over the top as the best team at finding different makers... I don’t know what else y’all want... outside of drafting an All-Pro in every round... which says a lot in itself... EDIT: Added 4th team Gunner highlighted

Tweet in the OP says it’s a byproduct of the new CBA.

You literally find a way to work this into every post. We get it... they passed on Metcalf... as did 32 other teams multiple times. Including the Seahawks twice for players worse than Cody Ford. Just give it a rest.

I saw that but I’m 99.9% sure that is wrong because they’re misinterpreting the buckets. Edmunds didn’t make the 2019 Pro Bowl on the original ballot. He was a replacement for Dont’a Hightower. You have to be an initial selection for that to apply.

Oh I agree, I just don’t think people recognize the risk/reward of these prospects. They only want them when they pan out... and when they do they bash Beane for not taking a home run swing. It’s a lose/lose really... not that Brandon Beane cares about what folks on here think.

No... Pro Bowl is coaches, players and fans... Teams have contract incentives (which are monetary and cap related) for MVP and All-Pro and such... which is voted on by the press. Incentives for Pro-Bowl too... any better way to do it?

If I am reading this tweet from Albert Breer correctly, these are the values for the 5th year options on Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds for 2022. Both players will receive the value under “Transition Players” Meaning the 5th year option on Josh will be $23,016,000 and the 5th year option on Tremaine will be $12,716,000.

I think the most frustrating part about the gripes from folks on here about Tremaine Edmunds is that that those same people are often the same people who gripe that Brandon Beane hasn’t done a very good job drafting “difference makers” or he just targets “high floor” players. Out of one side of their mouth whine and complain we didn’t draft a guy like DK Metcalf because he has all of these elite physical traits but there were questions about his ability to translate it to the football field. The out of the other side of their mouth they whine and complain because Brandon Beane drafted Tremaine Edmunds and they’re upset because while he has all these physical traits and overall he’s been solid... he hasn’t developed into the elite player they want him to be. What’s the guy supposed to do? He takes a swing at a physical freak and gets flack for it... doesn’t take a swing at a physical freak and gets flack for it. It’s like he can never win and only certain TBD posters can ever be right!

Glad I’m not the only one... I don’t know how many times I’ve tried to get across the point that development is NOT LINEAR. Glad Cover1 said it here... same rule applies to Tremaine Edmunds. Yes, we need more consistency but development is not linear and does not happen the same for every player.

Am I the only one that thought during some games he seriously flashed? There were a few sequences late in the season where I felt like he was always around the ball or making a play... I know he caught a lot of flack for not being an impact guy early on from some of the resident posters who believe your 7th round pick need to be elite or the draft is a bust... I felt like he showed a lot of promise later in the season.

This is about where I’m at with things as well... so basically Buffalo has done things as well as, if not better than every team in the NFL... yet many are still griping that it’s not good enough... it doesn’t matter if it’s the eye test or numbers.. or a combo of both... Great write up! Thinking about it more... I do agree with your Sweat/Dawkins assessment. A poor example on my end then!

Well you were referring to a draft because this is a thread about drafting players... and you specifically said... And wouldn’t it be a good idea to have an understanding, context perhaps of how other teams draft and how many difference makers they’ve drafted over the same time period... before you make declarations about how many difference makers the Bills have drafted since 2017 and how that number of difference makers isn’t acceptable? You can only be good or bad at something by comparison. Ironically... I agree with your last point... they do need to find a way to get to the level of play makers the Chiefs and Bucs have... you know the best remedy for that? Time... Reid has been calling the shots in KC since 2013... Licht has been doing the same in TB since 2014. You can’t just snap your fingers and make difference makers appear everywhere. That’s the whole point of all of this... this regime is doing it as well as championship caliber organizations... they might even be outpacing them. Absolutely... he’s really freaking close in my opinion. That was also part of the reason I chose him... to illustrate the difference. You could probably make an argument he is, but also an argument he isn’t... that’s why I lean in the direction that he isn’t. IMO there are no questions asked about a true difference maker. You’re one of the best when it comes to the draft on TBD... where do the Bills stack up against other teams in drafting difference makers over the 4 year period this regime has been here?

Right, but you made the implication that the Chiefs have done an outstanding job the last 4 years getting difference makers through the draft... because this is a thread about the draft. They have more difference makers of course... they’ve been at this roster building thing a little bit longer... that matters... I know there are some... but objectively what teams have drafted more difference makers than Buffalo dating back to 2017? How many difference makers should a team be drafting per year? Indianapolis, Baltimore and New Orleans stand out... but who else? First we probably have to agree on the definition of what a difference maker is... in my mind it’s a player at a core position (QB, LT, WR, DE, CB) that excels in all situations... clearly can take over portions of the game on their own... or it’s a player at a position of less importance (TE, LB, G, DT, S) that is clearly elite and can change the outcome of a game. Let’s agree on a definition first.... I would consider Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen a difference maker... I would not consider Baker Mayfield a difference maker. I would consider Myles Garrett a difference maker... I would not consider Montez Sweat a difference maker. Travis Kelce is a difference maker... so is Kittle... Gesicki is not.

Okay.. so you’re upset with McDermott and Beane for not having more difference makers like KC? Thats your gripe... But you’re leaving out that Kelce and Hill were drafted 4 and 2 years before Beane even arrived in Buffalo. Then throw in Clark, Mathieu and Chris Jones who were drafted in 2015, 2013 and 2016... also before Beane arrived in Buffalo. I’m not even going to entertain CEH as a difference maker - queue you telling me about how he ran all over Buffalo. So your ultimate point is McBeane are bad at their jobs for not jumping in their time machine and getting hired in Buffalo sooner... that’s what you’re telling me? Also you were referring to the last four years because your post said this specifically .. I don’t need charts, and WAR, and heat maps to tell me that the Bills have drafted solid contributors that past few years, but have not been getting true difference makers outside of say Josh Allen, Tre White, and Dion Dawkins(the last two were McD picks, not Beane). I value the “eye test” a hell of a lot more than analytics, and the Bills got their asses handed to them against the Chiefs because they have too many ok contributors and not enough true difference makers like the AFC Champs. Maybe you should use a timeline or something to sort this all out... but that’s technically a chart and you don’t need those... As for heat maps... you know nothing about heat maps at all... other than one experience that I have no exposure to... which occurred 2 years before I even signed up on this forum... and use that as an insult against me?

You tell ‘em Hap!!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

Thanks for clarifying... there were some reports that Childress, Nagy and evening Greg Olson (yikes) were the lead candidate. I know Ken Dorsey interviewed too. I guess all I was getting at is it’s kind of bizarre to jump all over McDermott for upgrading his staff over time and different coaches become available. Everyone has different length contracts, teams value certain coaches differently, etc. You can’t just pluck everyone you want whenever you want. I do think he did a good job identifying some younger coaches that he eventually promoted into more prominent roles over time... that’s a good thing. He’s developed some of his own coaches in his time here and that’s encouraging. Chad Hall now the WR coach Bobby Babich now the S coach Jim Salgado now the Nickel DB coach Marc Lubick now assistant WR coach and game management... which just shows McDermott’s commitment to getting better because his game management left something to be desired so he appointed someone to help him with that in some capacity on game day.

Yes, I think that’s what he did best as well. But you’re 100% right... it’s a concept I’ve talked about before... a player may be a contributor on a non-playoff team... but what do they look like on a contender? Do they make the same impact... that’s how you have to measure players... I brought it up a few times in the never ending Logan Thomas debate haha

IIRC Whaley made a lot of moves that were popular with the fan base. Outside of EJ Manuel. I always thought his drafts and signings were an example of what would happen if the geniuses on BBMB ran the Bills for a few years.

What are you even talking about? First it was Whaley’s scouts whose information was used to make the draft picks... but now apparently it was only Whaley’s scouts who made the GOOD draft picks... and then McDermott and his coaches made the BAD draft picks? Rick Dennison... the guy who was like his 8th choice for OC? It’s documented that he was not the primary target. He wanted Nagy or Childress amongst others and Reid promoted them a year prior to co-coordinators to block a lateral move. Not every person you want to hire is immediately available nor are the just allowed to get up and come work with you when you request it. He hired Chad Hall on that initial staff too and I believe John Butler as well... and Bobby Babich... and Rob Boras... and Jim Salgado... and Marc Lubick EDIT: Butler came over after the 2017 season. Everyone else was hired in 2017.

This is true. I thought Whaley was fine for the most part on the personnel side of things... but he wasn’t fit to run an entire organization. With that being said, it seems like the rest of the NFL believes he isn’t even fit to run a scouting department seeing he’s been out of the league for ~5 years now.

Absolutely, I agree with this 100%. It needs to be a combination of both and there’s no debating that at all. Absolutely zero debate. We can agree on this, and likely agree on more than that. Probably just talking past each other before by accident.