JGMcD2

I am going to wrap this thread up at 10 pages with actual information from the 2020 season as it pertains to ST only players and the resources allocated to them. I'll define here what I considered a ST only player... A ST only player is a player that played over 40% of snaps on ST while simultaneously playing less than 10% of snaps on offense and/or defense. This does not include specialists (K, P or LS). I went on PFR and went through all 14 teams that qualified for the playoffs. I sorted by ST snaps and took every player that fit my criteria listed above (40% > ST snaps and <10% off/def snaps). From there I went to Spotrac and individually searched every player that fit my criteria to figure out each player's average salary from the 2020 season. To recap: Only playoff teams Must be a free agent signing Must play more than 40% of ST snaps Must play less than 10% of snaps on offense or defense Does not include K, P or LS Findings: 10/14 playoff teams employed players on their rosters in 2020 to play primarily special teams. The average playoff team allocated roster spots to 2 ST players signed to UFA deals. $5M - Bills, Steelers and Saints $4M - Buccaneers $3.5M - Bears $3M - Titans, Ravens $2M - Seahawks $1M - Chiefs and Football Team Conclusion: Yes, the Buffalo Bills were at the upper limit when it came to playoff teams spending money on ST but they did not significantly outspend the teams around them. New Orleans and Pittsburgh spent just as much with the Super Bowl champs right behind them. They also have not wasted roster spots on ST players any more than any other playoff team. Verdict: This thread is a bust.

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t think he made anything up... I would just like to know where the information came from.

Yeah... I had to go back and forth between Spotrac and PFR snap counts to break down those two Pats (2018 and 2016) and the Chiefs (2020). If there’s an easier way to see it... I would love it haha. But I think I’m going to have to go and do it manually because I can’t find the combination of the two... but if @BADOLBILZhas a link somewhere with that information combined it would be huge.

Absolutely... I just don’t know where he’s seeing how other teams treat ST and the money spend on ST only spots. He’s making a league wide comparison.

Is there somewhere that I can see the comparison between the Bills and other teams when it comes to spending on ST only players? Again, genuinely asking for a source so I can see how it all breaks down... you’re making a claim... I’m not disputing it... I’m just asking to see the information.

Chiefs too... I guess he didn’t like that example too much either...

I'm not actually sure... let me ask! I didn't know when I entered this thread I entered totalitarian regime... @FireChansis there any chance you could provide us with some clarity on what we can use here? Or are you just determined to make rules that make you right no matter what?

Please. You are insulting his intelligence. He disqualified the use of the Patriots in this argument. Even though it was after he was proven wrong... he still laid out clear rules! GunnerBill... you can't use the Patriots! He said so after the fact!

In all fairness to @FireChansand his ever changing rules... he did say what recent Super Bowl Champion, or hell, contender has dedicated this much money and effort to special teams. I wouldn't consider the current Patriots a contender after last year... he also disqualified the use of the Patriots in this argument at all because... rules? EDIT: He actually didn't say recent Super Bowl Champion... I don't want to misquote his geniusness

Alright... When the Chiefs won the Super Bowl in 2020 they had $4M dedicated to Anthony Sherman, Jordan Lucas and De'Anthony Thomas who were primarily ST and not on rookie contracts. It's ok man... you're equally as unproductive as @FireChanshe created this dog**** thread... got proven wrong and then changed the rules for him to be proven wrong. He's been proven wrong again... stay tuned to see what he does next to avoid being wrong!

Well then you should have phrased your question like this... Can someone point out what Super Bowl champion outside of the New England Patriots or hell, even recent contender, that dedicated this much money and effort to STers? You can't change the rules AFTER you ask the question...

Sweetheart... this is what you asked for in your initial post... Can someone point out what Super Bowl champion or hell, even recent contender, that dedicated this much money and effort to STers? That right there is a direct quote from you when you started this thread. I provided you two recent examples (2018 and 2016 Super Bowl Champions) that met your criteria of teams as much (or more) money and effort to STers than the Bills do. I never made a claim that ST had more of an impact than Belichick or Brady... I simply provided facts to answer your question. Don't get defensive and deflect now that you look clueless. If you didn't want answer... you shouldn't have asked the question.

I can follow up with the Patriots the year they beat ATL in the Super Bowl. Ebner, Mingo, King, Bolden, Slater were all primarily ST players. They spent around $6M again here.

The New England Patriots. When they won the Super Bowl against the Rams they had Matt Slater, Nate Ebner and Brandon King who played ST only (combined 20 snaps on offense and defense between the 3). They spent about $6M/year between the 3 of them... that was just the easiest one for me to find... you asked for Super Bowl winner or recent contender... I met the requirement. We’ve dedicated money towards two non-kicker players who only play ST... Matakevich and Taiwan Jones. Is there anyone I’m missing? For comparison there... Matakevich and Jones combined for 76 non-ST snaps this year. @FireChans

Taking a poll... Would you trade... John Brown for Mitch Trubisky Emmanuel Sanders ?

Yeah their corners did a fantastic job against Buffalo. They really showed up when they needed them. I’m over crowing people champions because they signed a few good players... or saying a team stinks because they didn’t sign “insert player here” It boils down to the fact the Dolphins were embarrassed in their most important game of the year last year... and half of that embarrassment came against backups... on a team that many on this board claims doesn’t even have good starters outside their QB. The trolls get old.

Everyone gushed about how great the Dolphins corners were last year too... that worked out well for them.

I wish we ran things more like the Dolphins and Jets...

I didn’t hear it... that’s why I am asking for where it came from. When I initially asked for you to cite it... I had no idea of it was your own individual research, if it came from an article, a TV broadcast, a podcast, a radio show or from a leaked source inside the NFL. Why was it so unreasonable for me to ask about where it came from... when you had provided zero indication as to where you got it from? I’m not looking to disagree... I’m sitting here listening to your points and trying to put everything together... without seeing the information how can I make any reasonable conclusions... right or wrong? It only helps you to provide me with the information if it’s reasonably available... all you had to say was that you heard it on the broadcast... not accuse me of being unreasonable and calling you a liar... neither of which I did. Again... where did I ever insist anything other than the fact that I wanted you to cite the source? So because I want to see information for myself to better understand what we’re discussing... I’m claiming that your statement is false? I better never ask a car salesman for information on a vehicle I’m purchasing... or a realtor for information on the home I’m purchasing... shoot me if I read a bill proposed by politicians from cover to cover as opposed to just believing them outright that it’s going to benefit me... God forbid I want to see information to form my own opinion.

I’m not disputing the stat... I’m asking to see the stat. I’ve never seen it... I never said it’s fake or wrong... I literally just want to see it. You’ve mentioned it various times and never actually produced the source... how am I supposed to know anything about that other than taking your word... you just say “network statisticians” is that ESPN, Fox, PFF, CBS? Where can I find it to examine it myself? You can’t even tell me the source? That’s what seems odd... not the actual information itself. If you can’t provide evidence then you’re just spouting off about something with no proof... how am I supposed to believe your claim or not without seeing it for myself directly from the source? How can I dispute their information if I don’t even know where to find it? And then you won’t even cite it... that’s just you being difficult and/or irresponsible... why would you hide the information from me if I want to see it?

Idk. I really really hoping for us to acquire 4 All-Pro lineman this off-season. 2 G, 1 C and 1 T. Dawkins is fine for now but we could start looking for an upgrade there after this year. Evidently Beane doesn’t care too much about protecting his franchise QB or running the ball. Could’ve easily acquired 4 All-Pro linemen.

No dude. Come on.. we haven’t done anything that I wanted us to do to get better!!! I have come on TBD and cry about it!

Can you cite the homegrown talent numbers for me please? I’ve seen you reference it numerous times but I’ve never actually seen the numbers. When McDermott and Beane came in a stripped down the few remaining draft picks from the previous regime... that obviously had an impact on those numbers. Same people have been running the show in Baltimore and KC for a decade now... Tennessee and Indy never made the decision got a full blown tear down. It’s not like they’re on the same footing as Baltimore and KC when it comes to how long they’ve been competing and they took a different approach from Tennessee and Indianapolis because they were also at a different point in time... both had their “franchise QB” when McDermott and Beane arrived 4 years ago... they weren’t rebuilding. There were decent draft picks from true predecessors... guys worth holding on to... you can’t say the same about Buffalo.

Come on man... you know why this is... This is just dumb to include. It has nothing to do with this regime’s drafting or organizational philosophy and everything to do the guys before them. It is unnecessarily misleading. Now they’re retaining their own with Dawkins, White, Milano and because of that don’t have money to spend so you’re complaining about that out of one side of your mouth and then out of the other side of your mouth you complaining that they don’t have enough of their own drafted players on the roster? What do you want? Over reliant on free agency for depth... but then when they end up with depth players or non-superstars you complain because they drafted depth players... and the Bills have drafted as many if not more difference makers than any other team in the league. I’m not disputing cap space is tight.. there have been missteps... you’re consistent with that... but stay consistent with everything.

I’ve read 3-4 of your posts today and have outright agreed with you... the world is probably about to end.