GerstAusGosheim

It wasn't pretty, that's for sure. O played worse than D.

It's been a discussed million times on this board that the special teams coordinator and LBs coach were quietly jettisoned after KC13. Yet, Leslie seems to continuously get all the blame. Additionally, it's Sean's defense and he was standing right there for 13 seconds and could have at any moment changed the D. So why didn't he? Bills were never going to beat Cinci with the O scoring 10 points. Easily justifiable? Meh. It should also be no surprise to anyone that Sean is loading up on D players because he will justifiably be on the hot seat if we don't win the Super Bowl this season.

Nah, the Bills just didn't want the backlash for firing a very successful black coach. They did him no favors.

You spelled Political wrong. Can't fire a black DC with a top 10 D in 2023. He was pushed out and it was spun as Leslie "taking a year off" to make it sound like his decision.

Bizarre for sure, that's why the Bills official story doesn't add up. The best explanation I've heard is that he got fired/pushed out when Sean told him he was taking over the play calling. "Taking a year off" was the legal compromise since the Bills couldn't exactly fire a Black DC with a consistent top 5 D. They'd get roasted. I don't make the rules, that's life in 2023. 13 seconds has also been discussed to death. The Special Teams coordinator was quietly let go and LBs coach quietly "retired." Sean clearly identified who was to blame with these moves. Anyone who wants to blame Leslie should blame Sean too because it's his scheme and he was standing right there. Could have changed anything he wanted.

Sean clearly felt 13 seconds was the final straw for the Special Teams Coordinator (who failed to squibb) and LBs Coach (out of position) because they secretly left/retired and we didn't know about it until 3 months later. But apparently, that's not enough evidence for most that Sean didn't think Leslie was at fault. Otherwise, if you still feel strongly that 13 seconds should have been the final straw for Leslie, you must include Sean. It's Sean's system, he heard the call, was standing right there, saw the scheme, and chose not to change it, which he had every right and chance to do. Same with the Bengals cover zero scheme everyone brings up when the biggest issue with the team that day was clearly the O. If you told Bills fans ahead of the game that the the Bills D kept the Bengals O to 27, we'd all assume we won that game. Instead, 10 points.

I respect this take a lot and agree with the personnel note. But also think it has more to do with the times and public perception. You simply can't fire a black DC with a perpetually top 10 defense in 2023. I don't make the rules. Like it or not. The Bills would have been crucified for it. So they took the strategic approach and forced him out with the "taking a year off" approach. I believe there were 5 open DC jobs this year. He would have easily landed one of them.

Yep, this is exactly what happened. It's 2023 and you cannot fire a black DC with a consistent top 10 defense. So the Bills forced him out with a stealth move instead. Whether Sean intentionally waited until there were no available DC jobs left or it just took the legal department and PR machine too long to get their ducks in a row is unclear. But it was horribly handled and Leslie deserved better.

The big story everyone is missing is that Sean waited until there were no DC jobs left to fire him. That's really messed up.

Eli Manning will be a first ballot HOFer but I'm not sure he deserves to be in at all... CAREER WINS 117-117 Career wins = .500 Jim Plunket, the only QB in NFL History with 2x Super Bowl wins whose not in the HOF, was also exactly a .500 QB. For comparison, Cam Newton was .528, Andy Dalton .519, Jake Plummer .507 COMPLETION % 60.3% completion percentage in the passing era 5% lower than his peers Tied for 59th all time PRO BOWLS ONLY 4 Pro Bowls in 16 years ALL PRO SEASONS ZERO NFC OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE WEEK - IN 16 YEARS ONLY 4x INTERCEPTIONS LEAD THE LEAGUE 3x - 2007, 2010, 2013 #9 most interceptions in League History PLAYOFFS ONLY made playoffs 6x in 16 years. WINNING SEASONS ONLY 7 winning seasons in 16 years. REASON HE’S GETTING IN DESPITE THE EVIDENCE AGAINST. 1: Longevity during the Passing era of football. #10 on Passing Yards All time - 57,023 #10 on Passing TDs all time - 366 #10 on Passing Completions all time - 4,895 (For reference, Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers are both higher on list) 2: Beating Tom Brady in SB 2x.

But... But... But if we trade our 2nd rounder, we won't be able to pick another average rotational DE.

I've seen far more pernickety posts.

Dan Marino got rid of the ball lighting fast and lasted 17 years. Brady's quick release would have helped him the same way as long as the offense was set up for that style of play.

If only Beane actually had the the final say on draft day. Sean will get his DL / LB / DE first.

Considering Frazier got fired, I'd say more like outgoing.

You left out the part that the LB coach quietly retired. Maybe that had something to do with the middle of the field being wide open? Just a guess. Given that Leslie is running Sean's D, and Sean is standing right there watching the whole thing and could have easily changed the call, my guess is that Leslie wasn't fired because Sean knew he wasn't as much to blame as the fans think. Hmmm...you'd think a defensive head coach wouldn't allow that to happen? Insist on a different approach? Or maybe that's just his scheme...

I still don't understand how someone thinks they should have fired Frazier after 13 seconds when the Special Teams coordinator failed to get the right call in to squibb kick the ball? He was quietly let go and the LB coach quietly retired. This isn't speculation, these are facts. Funny how people overlook the obvious when they have their minds made up. This place is going to go bonkers if Sean's D ranks below Leslie at the end of the season.

"13 seconds" and the Bengals "10 yards off the LOS on 3rd and 4" are probably the two biggest reasons why Bills fans were screaming for Leslie's head. Meanwhile, very quietly after "13 seconds," the Special Teams Coordinator took a lateral job and the LBs coach retired and Sean didn't say a word as everyone blamed Leslie. If you read between the lines, it's pretty clear to me who was to blame. Everyone knows you Squibb kick the damn ball and the game is essentially over. Also, McD hears the calls Frazier makes and could have changed it for 13 seconds (on either play). Same goes for the Bengals game. The footing in the snow was really bad. It's just as likely that Sean was screaming because the players weren't executing the right call Leslie made because they were worried about getting beat deep. If you told me before the game that the Bills D would hold the Bengals to 27, I would have expected a 31-27 victory. But our neglected O-line couldn't protect Josh and we only scored 10. Yet, again, Leslie gets the majority of the heat. I wouldn't say McD necessarily used Frazier, but his reluctance to speak about these matters allow a whirlwind of negativity toward Leslie by fans who need a villain.

I suspect the answers would shift greatly if you did the same poll but for the last 2 seasons instead of 4. Something like... 10% Exceeded 20% Met 70% Fell short

Well, officially, no, and for obvious reasons. You can't exactly fire a black DC running a top-5 defense after a 14-3 record while the O only put 10 points in the final playoff game. Especially when he's basically just running the HC's scheme. The Bills and NFL would get hammered.

Holcomb was hired a month before Leslie was fired. So the move was in the works for a while. Unclear why Sean waited until there were no other DC jobs left for Leslie to take. Whether you wanted Leslie gone or not, the man deserved more respect than that. He dedicated 6 years of his life for this team, consistently had a top 5 D, was highly respected and loved by every player on that team. Wonder how this board would feel about Leslie if the Special teams coordinator got the right call in on the :13 squibb kick and we won the game. Or if our O against the Bengals put up more than 10 points.

Of course it was forced by the Bills, which makes it an even bigger douche move by Bills because they waited until after all the other available DC jobs were taken. The guy had a top-5 D for 6 years. Have some respect and let him catch on somewhere else.

McDermott for sure will pick a Safety, LB or DL.

Unless he wins a SB, his legacy will be passing on Patrick Mahomes, thinking Nate Peterman was the answer, and 13 seconds.

Well, he's certainly not taking a year off voluntarily. Wonder why Sean waited so long. There's no DC jobs out there anymore.