YodaMan79

You get it. I've been banging this drum the whole thread. Like a d!ck, got so frustrated I lashed out in a couple of posts. I think we have a fan base like others have stated; buy all the hype and BS the NFL sells us on these potential busts, chumps and jackoffs. We just have to hit the lotto on a couple of these players, that's all the draft is. Every year we have to hear from the talking heads how some guy is the next big thing. How often do these predictions come to fruition?

You're a man obsessed. I give you credit for persistence. The production you're referencing isn't something that has just come along. TE isn't just becoming a premiere position! ANYONE WHO CATCHES THE BALL HAS SEEN AN INCREASE IN PRODUCTION IN THIS NFL!!! Any analyst willing to spend 5 minutes looking into things would see this has been ten years in the making, Look at the individual seasons going back 10 years to more recent that these players had. This isn't the second coming of Bill Walsh's philosophy and the WC offense. What you are saying is common knowledge amongst anyone who really watches the game. I though you'd find this interesting too: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/nfl-non-mock-draft-first-round-fmia-peter-king/ 2007: Rk Player Team Pos Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st% FUM 1 Tony Gonzalez KC TE 99 1,172 11.8 73.2 31 5 14 0 59 59.6 0 2 Jason Witten DAL TE 96 1,145 11.9 71.6 53 7 12 2 56 58.3 1 3 Kellen Winslow CLE TE 82 1,106 13.5 69.1 49 5 17 1 56 68.3 2 4 Antonio Gates SD TE 75 984 13.1 61.5 49T 9 15 1 54 72.0 0 2009: Rk Player Team Pos Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st% FUM 1 Dallas Clark IND TE 100 1,106 11.1 69.1 80T 10 11 3 59 59.0 1 2 Jason Witten DAL TE 94 1,030 11.0 64.4 69 2 11 2 48 51.1 0 3 Tony Gonzalez ATL TE 83 867 10.4 54.2 27 6 4 0 54 65.1 0 4 Antonio Gates SD TE 79 1,157 14.6 72.3 56 8 18 1 61 77.2 1 2011: Rk Player Team Pos Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st% FUM 1 Jimmy Graham NO TE 99 1,310 13.2 81.9 59 11 18 2 74 74.7 1 2 Rob Gronkowski NE TE 90 1,327 14.7 82.9 52T 17 22 3 69 76.7 0 3 Brandon Pettigrew DET TE 83 777 9.4 48.6 27 5 7 0 37 44.6 0 4 Tony Gonzalez ATL TE 80 875 10.9 54.7 30 7 8 0 53 66.3 0 5 Aaron Hernandez NE TE 79 910 11.5 65.0 46 7 12 2 46 58.2 1 Top 10 in 2015: Rk Player Team Pos Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st 1st% FUM 1 Delanie Walker TEN TE 94 1,088 11.6 72.5 61T 6 13 2 52 55.3 0 2 Jordan Reed WAS TE 87 952 10.9 68.0 32 11 14 0 54 62.1 3 3 Gary Barnidge CLE TE 79 1,043 13.2 65.2 40 9 16 1 52 65.8 0 4 Greg Olsen CAR TE 77 1,104 14.3 69.0 52 7 20 1 52 67.5 1 4 Jason Witten DAL TE 77 713 9.3 44.6 35 3 4 0 36 46.8 1 6 Zach Ertz PHI TE 75 853 11.4 56.9 60 2 11 2 39 52.0 1 7 Benjamin Watson NO TE 74 825 11.1 51.6 46 6 13 1 42 56.8 1 8 Rob Gronkowski NE TE 72 1,176 16.3 78.4 76T 11 22 5 52 72.2 0 8 Travis Kelce KC TE 72 875 12.2 54.7 42T 5 10 1 40 55.6 2 10 Heath Miller PIT TE 60 535 8.9 35.7 27 2 5 0 29 48.3 0

I like this post. Throw the chart out, extract what you can if others want your spot. The picks are worth what others are willing to part with, not what an antiquated spread sheet says. I'm also a proponent of drafting the BPA at 9. Who knows when they'll have a pick this high again? I hope they'er not drafting this high for a long time.

Yes, I was being an #######. Inigo Montoya --- The TE position has been evolving. But it isn't something that just started, go back and look from 2014 to present. 2011 was pretty good, also. Here's a little help: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=TIGHT_END&season=2013&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=1&qualified=false&Submit=Go The fact TEs haven't been drafted that high does mean something. You proved my point, too. Where were those highly productive TEs you mentioned drafted? It's similar to the evolution of RB value, position production & where they can be drafted/acquired. This kid could be the second coming of Gronk, if so that would be amazing. But Gronk's the best all-round TE ever. Those odds are slim. DL seems to be where elite teams can make their mark. Please give be F. Cox, Donald or a JJ. Watt type. We need to stop the ball from being thrown so easily. I think 5 years of control over an DL prospect or game changing WR does more for the team in the long run. This league is evolving, not just the TE position. Passing is now easier than ever. WR numbers are off the charts. The fact you mention 4 TEs having WR #1 numbers is a product of the league, as well, wouldn't you agree? It didn't just start this year either. Again, I could be wrong. But, Donte Whitner comes to mind. Not a bad player, but he had no business being drafted where he was. I guess the same could be said for a number recent Bills picks in Rd #1. We both want the same thing...a watchable product that can be sustained for years to come.

What rounds were those two drafted in? Hint....I've covered this in the thread already. That's fine and dandy...but in the past 18+ years only 3 TE's have been drafted in the top ten: Winslow, Davis & Ebron. In the past 10, only Ebron. So that doesn't mean sh!t to me, A majority of the rest were taken between picks 25-100. Quality TEs will be there later. Elite teams are built on the lines, go BPA in the foundational positions. The guys clambering for this kid are the same simpletons that are distracted by a shinny new coin and most likely entertained by ESPN and S.A. Smith. What rounds were these three stud TEs drafted? SECOND ROUND and Celek was the 5th. You use your draft capital to grab the highest valued assets. It's a lottery ticket for high value positions. If you're going to hit on one, make it a guy who you can get 10+ years of elite play out of.

So he's worth being picked as the highest TE over the past 12 + years?

A TE at pick #9 would be steep price to pay. I think you can find really good TEs after the 1st round, or earliest in the 20s. In the past 10 years only one TE has been picked lower than 19th (OJ Howard), Eric Ebron at 10 in 2014. The sweet spot to getting a really good TE is between picks 25-100. History would point to this being a really poor decision/value, and bring back memories of Donte Whitner. Hopefully this would be a former Bills FO type of move, and they don't prove to be this stupid. For those who want to think a little: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=TE&type=position

Conditional 4th with a floor of a 5th should get it done. Howard set the market. Get it done. I'd be thrilled if McCoy was set free.

I agree with both players. To think, Priest was being wasted in Baltimore. He was fun to watch. I think Ricky Watters is getting the baseball writers HOF treatment. I don't think he was a great guy to be around during his playing days, or that's the perception. Ricky does deserve it more than Bettis or Davis.

^^^^ I see a difference in having a great career and being great. I give Gore credit for squeezing every ounce of talent he's got and putting it on the field. He must have one heck of a drive and be very disciplined. His injury history in college would have lead many of his peers to give up. He's proven that durability/availability is just as important as raw talent. I don't know how he could be kept out of the HOF? I don't think he's an automatic first ballot guy, but he does deserve the honor. I too was shocked at his standings.

A lot of great names mentioned. Hard to pin down to just a few, but I've always been a big B. Westbrook fan. He could do it all, I thought he was just as good as Faulk when healthy. I dont think these guys have been mentioned: Thomas Jones Terry Allen Ernest Byner Clinton Portis

My vote is for Sanders. Imagine the records he would have broke if he was with Dallas or even a Bill.

If Allen has a second season even 3/4 close to what Wentz was able to accomplish year two everyone here should be ecstatic. Wentz is a much better passer, but Allen has a certain "it" factor. Truth is, they both had crap surrounding them in their first year, and for what they had talent wise, they came out of it better. Carson had to throw the ball 600+ times because the team was so bad. It's amazing they were able to come out the college in the division they were in and compete year one. To the dim bulbs that think Wentz isn't that good, you obviously don't watch anything much other than the Bills. Like I said...I'd be thrilled with 3/4 of this production. I guess Wentz is overrated ?

***He also had one of the most prolific playoff runs a WR ever had in the playoffs. In 2008 he put the Cardinals on his back. If not for a stupid play on the goal line before the half he could have helped bring a ring to what is considered a bottom feeder franchise. THE CARDINALS! It's the Hall of Fame...not the very good. Gore most likely will get in, doesn't mean he should. I'm of the opinion you should at least be considered the best amongst your peers during their time in the league. I can think of 5 RBs better than Gore in his prime, 30% of his peers. Times change and how the stats play out are different from era to era. Look at all the soft stats WRs have been putting up the past ten years for comparison. Guys with numbers should be and will be left out of the HOF. Some of the people on here...between McCoy rushing for 1,300 yards in 2019 and Fitzgerald not a HOF? Not the brightest or best representing the fan base. DELUSIONAL Playoffs Receiving & Rushing Games Receiving Rushing Total Yds Year Age Tm Pos G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb Career 9 9 85 57 942 16.5 10 75 6.3 104.7 57 16.5 942 10 1 2008*+ 25 ARI WR 4 4 42 30 546 18.2 7 64 7.5 136.5 30 18.2 546 7 0 2009* 26 ARI WR 2 2 16 12 159 13.3 2 33 6.0 79.5 12 13.3 159 2 1 2014 31 ARI WR 1 1 8 3 31 10.3 0 14 3.0 31.0 3 10.3 31 0 0 2015* 32 ARI WR 2 2 19 12 206 17.2 1 75 6.0 103.0 12 17.2 206 1 0

A lot of Shady love here. He'll be three years removed from the player a bunch of you remember him to be at the start of the season. His YPC in 17 wasn't anything great. Was his production last year on the O-Line? Yes, partly. But not all of the blame goes on them, he's lost a step, too. I'm more confident in what Gore can bring vs McCoy at this stage. Last year he was better than McCoy has been the past two years. I see a younger 2nd-3rd round option taking McCoy's place and the Bills pushing his cap savings to next year. Gore will mentor him.

I like his running style. He punishes the defenders that try and bring him down. Also, very tough, he continued to play on that torn ACL. It wasn't until Monday or Tuesday he was diagnosed. I think his talent is worth a flyer at the low cost he's going to come in at.

Must be the dead of winter, also. Too bad this comment is lost on most of the posters here. He's most likely done and I'd like to see him gone from the team. Time for new blood. As another astute poster pointed out, how many other team captains have been benched or disciplined from the head coach for being an immature idiot during the season?

YPC has declined 2 straight years. Not sure it can get worse than 3.2? I wouldn't expect too much. He's not a 31 year old Frank Gore.

Too much. I think they have visions of the K. Mack deal in their mind. I see a couple of of possibly very good and possibly elite production years (2), but what happens when he falls off and we're stuck? I think it's downhill from here. The Bills don't have a JJ Watt type of player opposite of him. I know everyone is super excited about FA and trades, but has any team been the FA champions and won anything? Look at all the cuts that have been made, just a short time ago a number of team and fans were excited to have them, now they can't get rid of them soon enough.

Parker does have the talent, but durability is a concern with him. Not sure what the asking price would be? With how many games he's missed a mid to low 3rd or 4th is highest I think Miami could fetch

This would have been a decent depth move 4 years ago. Is Frank Gore really a first day of FA signing?

Do you think the switch to Baker and his elevated play had anything to do with Chubb getting an honest look from opposing Ds? We all know how well the Tyrod experiment went. For the record, I'm looking at a guy like Hyde to get no more then 100-125 carries. Draft a Rb you think can be a feature back, follow what Cleveland did with Chubb. I don't want McCoy here.

Yep, and the board geniuses know more than one of the more successful franchises over the past five years. Let alone a head coach that can get the most out RBs.

He can be had for the next two years at approximately $7.8 million total. In 2022 you can keep him for 5.9 million if the team chooses. His total contract is $15.6. In a small snapshot yes, he's currently in the top 15 category. He won't be there for long, at the end of FA and extensions he'll be in the 30's. Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus Per Game Roster Bonus Workout Bonus Guaranteed Salary Cap Number Cap % Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension Total $11,007,000 $3,177,523 $2,000,000 $1,200,000 $310,000 $2,957,000 $17,694,523 2018 25 $957,000 $927,523 $2,000,000 $0 $10,000 $2,957,000 $3,894,523 2.2% 2019 ? 26 $1,800,000 $750,000 $0 $400,000 $100,000 $0 $3,050,000 1.6% $2,250,000 $800,000 2020 27 $3,600,000 $750,000 $0 $400,000 $100,000 $0 $4,850,000 2.4% $1,500,000 $3,350,000 2021 28 $4,650,000 $750,000 $0 $400,000 $100,000 $0 $5,900,000 -- $750,000 $5,150,000 How much have the Bills put out in RB money the past three years? ---- over $34 million They're both better than anything we've seen on the field in a number of years in a complimentary RB role. They'd go great with a rookie RB. Spending wisely here will allow the team to put more money on the important positions on the OL and DL.

I think KC and Andy Reid know a little something about the RB position. Where do you think Hyde's first visit is?