Tyrod's friend

Some people like to have something to complain about. I don't get the negativity either. Likely to be the same people that will complain bitterly when the front office doesn't do exactly what they think should happen, or quibble over every single draft pick, or tell us they can do this whole thing better. What ev.

"Lose their job". Brees was replaced by Flutie, but ultimately did not lose his job. Bortles? Wake the F up. He's started 13, then 16, 16, 16 games. When did he "lose" his job? Flynn never was the starting QB; he was given that kind of contract but never took it. Gabbert was injured and never regained his position. So yeah, keep going because you're doing a GREAT job so far making my point for me.

So RG3 wasn't injured? Did Johnny ever HAVE the job to lose it? I don't think he did. It's a pretty rare event.

Sure. Just make sure they've won 2 NCs. won 90% of their games in the SEC, showed that they can protect the ball, completed 66% of their passes at every level, helped make sure their team made the playoffs when thrust into the role in the last three games of the year, then led that team to 16 4th QTR points against Pittsburgh. I'll bet you'll find a bunch!

Go ahead and tell me how many starting QBs lose their job if they aren't injured. Especially if that QB was drafted in the first round. I'll wait.

As I say elsewhere ... A backup won the Super Bowl. A backup led Minnesota to the NFC Championship game and was a Pro Bowler. A backup won 7 straight games. A backup became the greatest QB of all time. A guy that wasn't even good enough to be a backup led the greatest show on turf. College doesn't mean everything. It also doesn't mean NOTHING. It shows character, and that has value. It shows that you can be accurate with the ball. It shows you can lead. And regarding what other teams do? Tell me all the teams lining up to get Kurt Warner on their team. I never go by what the rest of the NFL does. We'll see what McCarron delivers.

Last year a backup QB led Minnesota to the playoffs and made the Pro Bowl. Last year a backup QB won 7 straight games. Last year a backup QB won the Super Bowl. The greatest QB in the history of football was a backup that got a chance when the starter met Mo Lewis. The third greatest QB in the history of football wasn't drafted as a starter; he was a backup. The leader of the Greatest Show on Turf wasn't EVEN a backup. Yeah ... so there's that.

Really? I wasn't aware that Tyrod had won any college championships, or beat regularly the best college competition like t&itches, or that he had ever completed 65% of his passes at any level, or won 90% of his college games. What I saw was a player that was given a full playbook and only ever wanted to use a little bit of it and used less of it as the years past, and never took any mentoring or advice. He couldn't find the middle of the field if he was given a flashlight, a map and 40 days. Look, I don't want to be snarky here. On some level, the maturity that Tyrod showed here was phenomenal and mirrored McCarron's. Tyrod led the team by leaving the pocket and we'll find here that McCarron will lead it from the pocket. This offseason, we got the closest thing to Joe Montana that we'd get. We'll see what he produces. I think right now, he's better than almost all the prospects coming out of college as a total package and I think he wins the starting role at SJF and possibly, never gives it up.

There's this thing called context. His offensive coordinator was given basically a rookie, in the middle of a playoff push. On top of this, that very QB was going to be pushed into a series of games where he was going to play the Steelers twice and the Denver Broncos. So looking at his numbers that year, you might want to consider them within that context. That he did that well is amazing, given that he had no experience to that point. And overall any comparison to TT is really just being stupid. Look at his numbers against the starting QB. A fall-off? Yes. But then again, that year Andy Dalton was performing at a level where he was arguably the 5th best QB. What college means is that he was able to face a difficult situation and continue to lead his team. When the chips were down in the 4th QTR in a playoff game against a very good defense, he got it together and put 16 points on the board. *** I think fans in WNY are going to be pleased with what they get in McCarron. He isn't going to panic, he's going to lead, and most especially he's cut from the same DNA that you'll find at every position in McDermott's locker room. He's going to fit in perfectly. Of all the free agent options - unless we were going to somehow pry Foles away - he was the perfect choice.

and system fit Which, in the case of Buffalo, should not be a question. As much as someone might love another quarter back - and I get the Rosen love - Lamar Jackson is the singularly most well fit QB to come to Buffalo as any in the last 15 years. A mobile QB, used to the same offensive system as our OC, playing for a HC and GM that was integral in bringing Cam Newton to the big stage. Not to mention, Lamar's a senior. I'm sure I don't have to remind fans of this HC's commitment to seniors and those players that put team in front of self. I'm willing to bet that McBeane never drafts any player that missed their bowl game to prepare for the combine and the draft. Don't know what made me think of that just now, but it seems right, doesn't it? Way, way, way too much smoke and I tell you what, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they moved up to make sure nobody swooped in and took him out from under their eye.

sho nuff

I just think there's so much value in this draft, especially between picks 12 and 60. I'd strongly consider moving down from 12, accumulating a higher second round pick (and even, use 2019 draft capital to do so). If we could increase our draft picks in the first and second round by one or two picks, we'd be able to totally restock this team. It is entirely possible that you could be looking at almost an entire starting lineup under the age of 25 in 2018 - several of them, budding stars. You would have considerable flexibility to offer Matt Ryan a fully guaranteed, three year contract valued at $115MM. I'm pretty sure he'll be at least as good as Sam Darnold over the next few years. I'm not saying don't move to 2; but if the Browns are in love with the same QB you want or the Giants want to rape you, take a flyer on the likes of a QB no sooner than the 4th round (White) and stock the pond. Just take Falk or similar in the 4th or later.

If it's not about anecdotes, then why bring up EJM? Actually I think it is about anecdotes. It's about HoF QBs needing to get a break, while Vinny Testaverde and Sam Bradford play forever because they were drafted #1 overall. I can't think of a single late round QB that had a bad, initial year that has ever played again in the NFL. Can you? Hell I have a hard time thinking of a late round pick that was allowed the space to have a bad 6 game stretch. At the end of the day, our two points hinge on whether or not 4th and 5th round picks have equal access to the position. I think your position is, well, frankly seems ludicrous to me. You seem to think that the merit system prevails in football, all evidence and common sense to the contrary. The NFL isn't structured that way, from the top down. It might be changing, but certainly that is not the history of this league to be thinking outside the box. Groupthink is what the NFL is about. And someone with a 3 year shelf life isn't about to challenge the status quo in this league. If you like numbers, here are some. Between 2016 and 2017, if you look at the won-loss record of all the QBs that started more than 7 games or more you have a total base of 910 games. QBs that were drafted either in the 1st or 2nd round played in almost 71% of those games according to what I found. But they had a worse winning percentage (52% versus the 55% of the later draftees). Over the time period, they played roughly the same number of playoff games and their record was roughly even. It strikes me that there is some issue here. If ability can be defined by winning, and the late round QBs are winning more than the 1sts and 2nds, then why aren't they having better access to the games to play? Why is it a guy like Nick Foles can't have a starting job in the NFL - a guy that put up the best season in recent history outside of Rodgers? Why is it that Sam Bradford got a $20MM contract from sitting on the Minnesota bench, but Case Keenum led them to the NFC Championship game and got an AAS of $18MM? (Below, 1 was used to designate all QBs at 1 or 2, 6 for all other). BTW: Pleasure chatting with you. Row Labels Sum of W Sum of L 1 339 306 0.525581 0.708791 6 146 119 0.550943 (blank) Grand Total 485 425 910

I appreciate your opinion. I believe the facts show that you are wrong; most of the greatest NFL QBs only got there chance because of injury to starters and using EJ Manuel - a failed starter and clearly no longer having anyone's faith - really only solidifies my feelings. The list of QBs that didn't get a shot until someone was injured is pretty impressive - off the top of my head, 3 HOF QBs. Resources invested are sunk costs.

Yeah ... well, Peterman is one of the examples I used to make my point. 5th round QBs simply don't get much of a chance to start in the NFL. If they blow up, even a little bit, the pressure throughout the league to drop them is immense. It's world of incredible groupthink, where the obvious but contrarian thoughts are tossed aside. It's clear you should almost always go for 2. It's clear that you should almost never, ever punt if the yardage is less than five yards. Statistics bear this out, but nobody is willing to do it. You just don't start a 5th round QB. If your organization has invested a high round pick, they go. If that guy doesn't make it, you look for a guy some other team drafted in round 1. Never, ever give the shot to the guy drafted later. The original poster made some sort of myth about QBs never progress, they just age. You can't grow on the bench year after year; it's like a sort of circular logic that seems to prove itself.

If you ignore that coaches never give anyone that isn't a 1st or 2nd round draft choice an opportunity to start, you can come up with a whole world of poor conclusions. Including using things like dividing the number of starts by the total number of picks. You might be asking yourself of those players not drafted 1st or 2nd - and starting in the NFL - what is the likelihood of those players getting into the playoffs? Why is it that there are so many 1st or 2nd round QBs in the NFL ... but so few playing in the playoffs?? It's actually hidden right in the middle of your "facts". The average lifetime of a HC is three years. That should tell you all you need to know about someone that is willing to take a chance on anyone the GM didn't draft a QB highly.

This is clearly survivor-ship bias. I mean, I get the numbers and I understand where it comes from, but it's survivorship. Let's consider this: how many QBs are given a chance to start, unless one of these two things happen: * the starter gets injured or * he's drafted at the least in the 2nd round. Those are the ONLY avenues to starting in the NFL. If you have no opportunity, you won't start PARTICULARLY at QB. In fact, it is a miracle - a miracle indeed - that Wilson and Prescott got starting gigs in their rookie years. I mean, just think this through. Kurt Warner and Tom Brady in our past; current examples, include a guy with one of the five best seasons in the HISTORY of football, and he got that chance only because Bradford got injured. Then he went on to win the Super Bowl only because another starter got injured, and he STILL doesn't have the pedigree apparently to start. How about Colin Kaepernick? There's more but why bother. Meanwhile, absolutely miserable starting QBs that were drafted in the first round get chance after chance. Think of the money Sam Bradford has made as the #1 pick in the draft; exactly how long of a leash does Zak Prescott get if he had his track record? Let's use us as an example - if Nate Peterman was drafted in the first round and had a game like he did last year, do you suppose he'd have been benched, never to be seen from again? Here's my last example. The Cowboys went through Henson, through Chad Hutchinson, they brought in Vinny, they brought in Drew Bledsoe. All the while they had this undrafted guy on the roster. After Tony Romo had a horrible first game ... and I remember this clearly ... everyone was shocked, SHOCKED that Parcells would continue to give a shot to the unknown guy. That's why Parcells is a Hall of Famer. We'll find out this year, right here in Buffalo. If McCarron is successful at all, look at the guy he apparently couldn't unseat. Dalton simply wouldn't get injured for a long enough time to give him a shot.

ummm ... no. 26 of the starting 38 Super Bowl QBs since in this millennia were drafted after #10. Take out Tom's six, you've still got 20 out of 32. Go further and talk about simple playoff appearances and it would be predominantly players NOT drafted in the top 10 - by far.

I'm not sure how to respond. Goodwin clearly had a break out season. I think Watkins and Wood were stellar for the Rams. Conversely without good WR play, you can clearly make the argument that 2017 was clearly a step down for Tyrod. Am I missing something here Hebert? It seems as if you are making my argument for me.

Actually, in bringing that up you are making the point for the poster. Because you have to consider who was picked second that same year. The Chargers traded up to get Ryan Leaf. just stop. Please.

It absolutely blows my mind that people like you blather on and on, when there is nothing approaching proof that you need to "move up" to get anything. Just keep stomping your hands and crying - its a very effective tool for making a point. I mean, instead of actually saying something. Ben wasn't the first QB off the board; neither was Brees, neither was Brady, neither was Cousins and on and on and on. It's worthwhile that my response was to some idiot (was that you? Sorry if it was) saying both that you had to move up to get a QB and that you cannot wait for someone to fall to you. When in fact, moving up ended very badly for the Skins and it was in the same year that their ultimate savior literally fell to them. Anyways ... What you need to do is evaluate talent appropriately, put a proper price tag on it, and don't let emotion get in the way of making trades. To this point, the management has shown us a level head.

So we are going to have this discussion and leave a terrible WR group out of the conversation? Leaving aside Kelvin Benjamin, you had some pretty terrible ball catchers last year. Logan Thomas is bloody QB acting like he can play TE out there. Look ... it's like my baseball team. There's no problem having a Gold Glove CFer that can't hit the ball out there ... providing you have 7 other positional players that can actually hit the ball. You can't give extensive time to the likes of Logan Thomas and Zay Jones and for most of the year have KJ not even playing and the rest of the WR being basically cast offs. Eventually, you need talent at WR. In the words of a beautiful wife ... he can't throw the ball and catch it.

Follow up point: One year after the draft, Goff might have been considered a mistake. But he was fortunate and his team surrounded him with great talent at LT, 2 WR and one of the best offensive minds around right now. Are you thinking our team is going to follow that path after we move up to #1 or #2 to get Rosen/Darnold? Hmmm. I wonder how. Two years after the draft, Carson Wentz injured his leg. He is recuperating, but a good part of his value lies in his ability to run/be mobile and attack the defense in multiple ways. He's aggressive and I think he's going to have a lengthy injury record. You might not want to take any victory lap on him either.

Maybe we want to give it a year or two to figure out? Robert Griffin Passing Statistics for Career Games 2014 to 2016 Games Passing Passing Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD Average 14 14 266 424 3202 18 8 34 246 Per 16 Games 16 16 304 485 3659 21 10 39 281 2012-2013 WAS 28 28 12-16-0 532 849 62.7 6403 36 4.2 17 2 88 7.5 7.5 12.0 228.7 91.5 68 491 6.45 6.40 7.4 Robert Griffin Passing Statistics for Career Games 2014 to 2016 Games Passing Passing Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD Average 7 6 117 180 1290 3 4 28 182 Per 16 Games 16 14 267 413 2949 7 10 63 417 2014-2016 WAS,CLE 14 12 3-9-0 234 361 64.8 2580 6 1.7 9 2.5 69 7.1 6.4 11.0 184.3 81.0 55 365 5.32 4.64 13.2

? The Redskins traded that year's 1st round that year's 2nd Round Plus #1 in the NEXT TWO YEARS They were barren. It's actually quite an Apple to Apple comparison. You are saying a team won't get hurt by trading up. The Skins were totally fckd ... And on top of that you made some kind of comment that you can't just wait for a QB to fall into your laps. LMAO. GTFO here.