RocCityRoller

thanks, I'll check it out. The Fanspeak version I linked is free too.

Yeah I noticed that on the nfl.com draft profile. Also a 'minor' shoulder surgery. Not a great arm. I think Rudolph is the dark horse here. My guess is the board looks like: 1) Darnold 2) Rudolph 3) Allen 4) Rosen 5) Mayfield

One of the draft simulators is up and running, and is always fun. In basic mode there are no trades, which limits it some. (Sorry no Andrew Luck trades LOL, I had to troll this board some ) Even without trades it is still fun to see what QBs could fall to 12 or 22 and how much Buffalo can bolster the team with the picks it has From what I can tell it is updated weekly https://fanspeak.com/ontheclock/

makes sense since the Bills are reported to have a lot of cap space next year to work with

I tip my hat to you, sincerely. I called you out personally before because of the original response to my thread. It came across as snarky, belligerent, and without thought. I am new here, making friends quickly. <ok not really> I saw a lot of Cousins/ Keenum/ xyz threads but nothing on Luck. I didn't go back into the archives. I lost years on Tyrod Taylor posts alone. You did post a well argued and reasoned post as to why you do not like the thought of trading for Luck above. I even repped you for it. I may disagree with you, but if you take some time to hold a dialectic I will respect it and think it over. Why didn't you just do that the first time? The crux of your argument was medical. Anyway, it's funny because some people seem to think I am a complete idiot for even thinking a trade for Luck is possible. Luck is the Indianapolis franchise and such a thought is dumb, I like to call these 'my first 20 responses on TBD'. Some even guessed I must be a crack head to suggest such a thing. (No, I am a drunk thank you very much, see above) Some have said anything is possible, but not likely, referring to the Herschel Walker trade, and noting other moves for franchises to get 'damaged' QBs. I may point to Buffalo drafting Willis McGahee and sitting him for a full year, knowing he wouldn't be ready for a year, when they needed a QB. He sucked as a QB by the way. Heck I remember Oakland QB Jim Plunkett and his injury meaning he was washed up in the 70's, but what do I know? I think he won a Super Bowl, but sucked at RB. I'd like to bring up the Ricky Williams draft too, everyone knew he was a pot head, and that was a decision made by 'a respected member of the NFL brain trust.' Lastly, we have the reports of major medical damage. I don't have a medical degree like a lot of people here do. I had no idea so many doctors were on this message board before, but I do know that if I were Indy, sitting at #3 in the deepest QB draft since 1983, with an inside connection to Philly and the Super Bowl MVP, and knowing Luck was done, I'd try to dump Luck ASAP, and get the most out of him I could and stop paying him. Even a fellow drunk like Jim Irsay could figure that out. I'd pull in Foles since Philly is in cap trouble, draft a QB at 3, and take the idiotically proposed Buffalo first round pics to do the trifecta with a "Herschel Walker' style trade. If correct, Jim Irsay could get drunk and snort coke off of Bolivian hookers @sses for years. Call me kookie, though it cancels out the first two thirds of this thread. Two 1st round pics for this heap?!?! YEAH!!! Let's do it!! So with your medical diagnosis I spoke the truth from an Indy perspective, or is it simply a crap shoot? I relied on the horrible media like below, I apologize: https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/16/indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-recovery-exceptionally-well/ http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000912153/article/colts-andrew-luck-regaining-strength-close-to-throwing One of those reports noted Luck's 'treatments' in the Netherlands, a bunch of sex crazed pot heads. I guess he should be Denver's QB. Then again only for 8 games unless they have away games in California and maybe Massachusetts. Imagine a millionaire going to overseas for medical treatments? What a loser. https://www.omicsonline.org/conferences-list/medical-tourism-and-public-health Luck is as much a risk now as any rookie QB, because of the medical issue with his shoulder, but he has delivered 4700 yds and 40+ TDs in a season in the NFL. Meanwhile, the cost for Buffalo to move into the 6 or 7 spot is their 21 and 22. That assumes Buffalo likes a QB available at 6 or 7, and they can find a partner to trade with. Going 1-5 will be 3-4 picks. I'd rather roll with a guy who has proved it, than one that hasn't. Call me a riverboat gambler.

Cleveland will draft S Barkley #1 now. With Taylor, Duke Johnson and Barkley the Browns will be #1 in rushing offense. They will draft a QB at #4 or trade back to a QB thirsty team like Buffalo. The 'D' in Cleveland is young and stacked. Cleveland will be 7-9 to 9-7 because turnovers are reduced. In typical Bills fashion, they may loose a wild card spot to Cleveland, unless they play their cards right.

I can see you are an open minded lad with a lot to offer with deep analysis and counter points. Just shut up anyone who doesn't agree with you or think differently. I bet you have an awesome beard.

Exactly That is the risk, and very reason it could be possible. Why would Frank Reich want to go into his first year as a HC with a banged up Luck when he could have Foles and a QB selected at #3? On top of that Indy could dump 75 million in cap, and get #21 an #22 from Buffalo to rebuild. if I'm in Indy this is a no brainer. Use the Philly and Bills connections to build now. Indy could get Foles, a QB at #3, and #21 and #22 Phily gets out of 7 million in cap trouble and gets Indy second rounder and maybe third Bills could get a potential franchise QB if they are patient, and willing to struggle a year. therefore strike a deal and buy while the value is low while using the Philly, Indy Bills connection It's not rocket science

Let me simplify it for you then: Eagles in cap prison Reich was OC of SB winning Eagles - Foles won SB as MVP QB of Eagles Reich named HC to Indy, Indy is a mess and in total rebuild mode, but has #3 pick in draft in a QB heavy draft. If only Frank Reich understood QBs. Philly to Reich - "want a QB?, we spent too much, we were drunk signing Bennett, the QB is super cheap, only 7 mil a year", they said like a crack head selling stolen bottles of liquor for $10 outside your local 7-11" Reich to Philly - "but I have Luck and #3, I'm fine, I told ESPN and Twitter" Philly to Reich - "The QB is SB MVP, why not have a #3 and the SB MVP? Are you sure your other QB is 100% for your first year as a HC?" "Would you rather have SB MVP and draft a QB at #3 to bring in fans, or test your Luck?" Reich to Philly - "send me Foles, what do I owe you?" Philly to Reich - "a second and 3rd, friendly discount and out of conference" Reich to Philly - "That is a bit pricey, it's only Foles" Philly to Reich - "That stupid McBean only offered me a 2nd, do a little better for me Frank, I can't give it away" Reich to himself - "if only I knew of a team I like that needs a QB, especially one with a lot of draft picks in the first round to help me rebuild this team and free up cap space" Reich to Buffalo - "I see you need a QB, we have Foles, the SB MVP, and a future #3 pick QB now. Any interest in our decent but slightly banged up QB since we need to rebuild? He declined a bit previously, but is pretty good." McBeane to Reich - "I suppose we could use a QB, though we are good with Peterman, and spending 4 picks to move up for a totally unknown quantity, or spend 100 million on an a slightly above avg QB. This is the genius of TBD. We do have some draft wiggle though." Reich to McBeane - "I'll tell you what, #21 and #22, maybe a third too?" McBeane to Reich - "21 & 22 or it's a no deal" Reich to McBeane - "well it's a hard bargain, but ok. I'll roll with SB MVP, #3 pick QB, #21 and #22, dump 75 Million in salary and be called stupid on "Two Bills Drive" for it. McBeane to Reich - "Thank goodness, we didn't really want to roll with Peterman, or those other options, and everyone knows TBD is a bunch of wankers anyway." "Trust the Process, Frank"

With the cap as it is, trades are becoming more acceptable now. Why not make the offer? Foles-Reich connection, Philly in cap prison, Foles to indy, Reich-Buffalo connection, make an offer.

Exactly Look at the Colts position. It is a total rebuild. They have the #3 pick in a deep QB class. Dumping 75 Million in cap and grabbing two more first rounders is a smart move when dealing low. For the Bills it's a better gamble than Cousins, Foles or a rookie. and there is a connection, not to mention Foles could go to Indy with Reich there and Philly being in cap Hell. but hey what do I know?

Look at the Colts position. It is a total rebuild. They have the #3 pick in a deep QB class. Dumping 75 Million, and grabbing two more first rounders is a smart move when dealing low. For the Bills it's a better gamble than Cousins, Foles or a rookie. and there is a connection

thank you for a reasoned response. Do you think #21 and #22 will get to the pick needed for Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold? I think it will take 3-4 picks due to draft pick value and the teams looking for QB. I think Indy is full scrap down, rebuild mode. Get rid of salary, have #3, #21, #22 to rebuild with a new coach and sell off assets.

Among all the QB topics here and around the NFL boards I have not seen much conversation about Andrew Luck. Most of the buzz centers around free agent Kirk Cousins at 25-30 million a year. By trading Taylor the Bills gained 10 million this year on the cap, and will be 80-90 million under the cap next year when dead cap space is freed up. Financially the Bills are technically back in the running for Kirk Cousins, but questions remain about Cousins being an average or slightly above average QB able to win games. There are also suitors willing to throw ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money at him (Vikings, Jets). The next QB tier is the Nick Foles/ Case Keenum level. Nick Foles is apparently commanding a 1st and 4th from Philadelphia coming off his big playoff run and Super Bowl MVP, a classic buy high scenario. Case Keenum also had a terrific run last year but has had an up and down career. Both proved to be clutch performers when called upon and could be reaching a 4-5 year 'Rich Gannon' halo level. Both also have been career backups and journeymen and seem to be mid-tier, system dependent starters. If in the right situation and surrounded by strong teams, they can be successful. Does Buffalo meet those requirements? After that level we have AJ McCarron who will require draft picks too, and has a very small sample size (a la Rob Johnson), Mike Glennon who has never wowed anyone, underwhelming Matt Moore, always injured Sam Bradford, Josh McCown who is almost as old as me, and Teddy Bridgewater who is a poor man’s Tyrod Taylor coming off a major injury. None of these are a real day one starting QB you trade Tyrod away for. Fine backups for certain, but not starters for a team coming off of a playoff appearance and looking to win now with a veteran roster, or build with for the future. McBeane has stated they would not move on from Tyrod unless they had a plan in place. None of the above meet that requirement and will demand a significant investment in cap space or picks. At 21 and 22, the Bills could let the draft fall to them and hope for an Aaron Rogers or Russel Wilson situation. They could try to package picks for a QB and move up, but who is the target? All of the top 6 QB prospects have question marks. Whether it is completion %, arm strength, maturity, size, clutch performances or competition level, none is the ideal guy you gamble the house on, but many are intriguing for a relatively new HC/GM combo without a QB in place. Buffalo will have to give up three picks minimum, likely four to move to the 3-6 pick range, if they can find a partner to snag who they want, and a lot of teams in that range also could use a QB. There are more teams with draft capital that could move up and leave Buffalo in another Big Ben draft situation leaving our Bills with another Losman. Can a team with so many holes afford to mortgage their future for an unproven commodity with a lot of question marks? Buffalo actually has enough cash and enough draft picks to make any scenario above possible. Look around the NFL. Who has a proven starter at QB, at a buy low point, on a contract that looks like a bargain for the next few years when compared to Cousins, is in line with Foles for draft capital, and is a McBeane type character experiencing a regime change? Andrew Luck in Indianapolis does. Indianapolis has about 5 QBs under contract, the #3 pick in the draft, and a former QB in place as a new HC in Frank Reich. Wouldn't Frank Reich like to have a say in his future QB? Most new HC/GM want 'their guy' to lead the team and succeed or fail with that guy. He did help develop Carson Wentz, who fell into a dream scenario with a strong team, a HC that was a career backup QB in Doug Petersen, and Frank Reich as OC. Frank Reich has strong ties to Buffalo. Would Reich do Buffalo a solid by trading Luck to them? What if Buffalo could get Luck with the two first round picks this year (#21 and #22)? Why would Indy do it? If Indy traded Luck to Buffalo they would free up significant cap space to build around, and have three total picks in the top 22 this year to rebuild with. Indy already has the #3 pick in this year's draft and would free up about $75 million more in cap space over the next three years. Look at the draft. With the Tyrod trade, Cleveland can take S. Barkley at #1 safely and have a solid run game and game manager that limits turnovers and show a marked improvement in wins now. At #2, do the Giants aim for the fences at a QB to replace Eli or do they build up the team for one last run? I'm guessing they go defense like LB Chubb and pair him with newly acquired LB Ogletree to build up the defense, and make a run with a healthy Beckham back. That leaves Indy at the #3 pick, able to pick any QB to rebuild with. At #4 Cleveland still could go QB for the future too. What would Buffalo get? With the Tyrod trade Buffalo could absorb Luck's contract which is about $25 million this year. Would you rather pay Luck or Cousins 25-30 million a year? Buffalo would still have room to sign an impact player (DE Adrian Clayborn), or sign/resign a few Poyer/Hyde style mid level players. DT Beau Allen, WR Donte Montcreif, and LBs Preston Brown, Zach Brown, and Nigel Bradham range come to mind. Even trading away the two firsts, the Bills would still have their 2 second round picks, and 2 third round picks to build around Luck, and be able to address the defensive front seven, OL and WR positions as needed based on free agency. In Bufffalo Luck would have a solid OL, especially if Glenn is healthy. In that case, Dawkins should kick out to RT as he was originally drafted for, and give Luck the best pair of tackles he has had. Incognito is still solid at LG for a year or two. The Bills also have Groy at C who started many games that Wood missed a year ago without missing a beat. Let Ducasse and Miller fight it out at RG under the new scheme. PFF rated Ducasse as an avg RG last year, and Miller was the most improved RG the year before the zone blocking scheme was implemented. The Bills could use a pick to beef up the interior OL too, to protect Luck. At RB, Luck would have a veteran thunder and lightning RB combo in McCoy and Ivory. Between the two of them, there should be plenty of gas left in the tank, and a good understanding of pass blocking. Better than the Richardson and Brown combo he had in Indy for many seasons. WR/TE it is underwhelming at first, but Benjamin is the huge target Luck never had in Indy. TY has been fantastic, but is small. Indy hasn't had a big receiver like Benjamin. Clay is a solid TE that can block and catch. Jones is in his second year, surgically repaired, and should be moved to the slot. The signing of a mid level WR like Montcreif would add familiarity, Hurns would add another boundary WR so Jones could move inside, or Richardson who would add speed to beef this area up. A draft pick could also be made here. Buffalo is not the worst proposition that could be made to Luck. Both teams have work to do to compete for a championship, but both teams would benefit. Both are in the midst of regime changes, but I feel Buffalo is more ready to win now with a few savvy moves. Is Andrew Luck in the prototype buy low scenario? Is Andrew Luck still considered a franchise QB? Would you pick up his contract for this year’s 2 first round picks? If not who would you prefer? Why? Would Indy even consider 2 first round picks for him to do a true rebuild under a new HC? What is the most you would trade to Indy for him since Buffalo has 6 picks in the first three rounds? Is he healthy enough for the risk? What do you think?