ngbills

I agree. There is a temporary elite - like a Mahomes that has looked like the best at his position but only in a short time period or even the current obsession with L Jackson. Then there is the proven, been there, done that with numbers and victories to support - Brady, Brees, Rodgers type guys. So much is relative. If say Stafford was on the Bills with this defense what does that do for this team? Or you give Prescott the Bills WR what do his numbers look like? There is team success and individual player success. The Saints kept winning with Teddy B...does that mean he is a good QB or they have a good team and supporting players?

You must be confusing me. I do not have a crusade. I am simply stating what I think is the obvious. Allen has a ton of room for improvement. If this team had a average or bad defense the entire discussion would be different because the Bills are likely not 9-3. Allen has yet to join the elite passers. He may never join them. If the Bills can maintain a great defense and good running game they can still win for years to come. If the defense starts to decline they will need a better passing attack and hopefully Allen is up for the challenge at that point. He has all the potential in the world to do that.

Brady has thrown for 300 yds 5 times this year. Did it 5x last year and 6 the year before. Rodgers 3x this year and 4x last year Brees 3x this year (out half year), 6x last year Mahomes 6x this year, 10x last year Wilson 3x this year, 1x last year I could keep listing QB's. Point is not the number of times or using this as the measure of greatness. But the fact that Allen is at 0 is meaningful. He plays more consistent in a number of games this year and he easily passes 300 yds. It is not by design he did not hit 300, rather his inconsistent play in those games. That is who he is at this point. The Bills have adjusted and are back to using his strengths.

Why argue this? Everyone has eyes and has seen Allen struggle. Admit that and move on. He has improve and is still improving, but lets not pretend he has chosen not to throw for 300 yards or done enough etc. If he played better in games there would be no need for any late game drives, etc. And my 40-50 was an exaggeration. But he has thrown the ball 30+ times in 7 games.

Most if not all are not saying you you need 300 yards at all cost. If your offense is playing well and dominating the game then great whether you throw for 100 or 400 yards. The point was discussed more in that the Bills offense has struggled at times AND Allen was not putting up the yards. That is not the be all end all but is a concern. Especially in some games when he is throwing 40-50 times. Luckily Daboll has seen the light as of late and realized Allen is not ready to be the 40-50 attempts for 300 yd QB and needs a more balanced approach to be successful. That is what many were clamoring for all along. Play to Allen strengths at this point in his career, which is best suited for a balanced attack resulting in him throwing for closer to 200 than 300 and ideally running for another 50 from Allen and 100 from our RB's. So both sides are right. No Allen does not need to throw for 300 yds to win. Yes Allen did fail to throw for 300 yds when he was being asked to do so. This offense is built around the run and a balanced attack, not 100% by design but also due to Allen's early career limitations.

I guess my mindset is not on us being at 10-6. That would be a huge letdown given it means losses to BAL, PIT and NE. Higher expectations...must win 1 if not 2 of those games.

Bills likely playing KC or Houston; Also chance TEN if they can beat HOU twice. TEN would be best case, but dont see it. Who do we want to play HOU or KC? I have to go HOU because you have to think KC turns it on in the playoffs.

Come on now. Your trying way too hard to twist by statement into an attack on Allen. I did not say he isnt a very good QB in my statements. Again, I just said the stats do not paint the entire picture. No different than those who say him throwing for 300 yards does not matter. It is all relative.

I am not talking at all about his recent play or overall play. My only point was that the game winning drive and comeback win stats get used very liberally and if you actually look at those games they do not meet the argument of what people are generally saying.

I will play.... 3 of the 4 this year were vs CIN, NYJ and MIA. Those were games we had no business needing the late game heroics. JA had played poorly in these games requiring some bad teams to give away games. MIA counts as a comeback but reality is we scored to start the 4th quarter, so technically yes, but not really what I call a comeback win. Last year he gets credit for: TEN - We ran the ball basically the entire drive with McCoy and Ivory and kicked a FG to win. JAC - Tie game and we scored to start the 4th qtr and we scored on 1st play of the 4th qtr from JAC 14. So technically yes, but not really what is a GWD. DET - Scored with about 10 min left in 4th. Yes gets credit for comeback and GWD but... I only debate this because I think people use these 7 GWD stats too loosely. Like it shows how he can play when he needs to so nothing else matters. Just not true. I want him to play well and not need to fight for easy wins - win like we did vs DAL and DEN. Lets see the heroics vs NE or BAL this week.

Why is it bitching? It is undeniable Allen had some games in which he played poorly. The offense was struggling. Hence it is ok to discuss. As I said, some prefer to look at that and say what do you expect, he has no WR or whatever to dismiss the poor play. Obviously McD/Daboll or whoever realized it as well because there have been big changes in playcalling, game management, player useage, etc. So in reality those with concerns were legit or else there would have been no changes needed.

This is a good point. I do still think there is something to passing ability vs. scheme. Both Allen and Jackson at this point are more scheme attacks as you say with both the passing and running abilities. Neither in my mind is that pure passer - Brees, Rodgers, etc. Until you are outschemed I think you can win the Jackson/Allen way. Concern is will the league catch up to you? Both these guys do have arms and can improve their passing abilities and negate that concern over time.

Haha at all those people that once thought the world was flat. What idiots. Cant believe that. Where are they all hiding now. Wish they would come post on here trying talk that nonsense again.

The point is you have to be able to pass when you need to. If you a have a good defense then you can control the game and not worry about passing yards, etc. But if you fall behind then you better be able to throw the ball. If Allen had even 1-2 300yd passing games this would be less of a discussion point. He and the Bills of recent years have not shown they can go out there and throw the ball around the field if needed. Doesnt mean you suck. Just that you need to win by controlling the game not in a shootout.

I look at as discussion. If someone is not playing well why not have a conversation about it? Some dont want to hear anything negative. Reality is Oliver was not playing great and was losing snaps. Maybe that was the wake up call he needed to motivate himself. I would say the Allen debates are slightly different, but still why are other QB's doing xyz and Allen is not. Worth a discussion though some will again say your a hater etc. My point of view is always if you dont like what your reading and dont want to actually discuss it then go to another thread. There are plenty out there. If I come across a discussion about baking cookies I am going to move on to the next one, not get all fired up and attack people for talking about cookies.

No. Giving up only 3 is dominating. Scoring 20 is not. Especially with the play of the defense. The Bills had plenty of opportunity to put up 40+ when your D plays like that.

Disagree. Our Defense is dependable and can keep us in any game. The O is still leaving us vulnerable. Look at the Bronco game. The O did look good yet was only up 6-0. It took a huge interception by the D or this game could have went differently. The Broncos take a 7-6 lead there and who knows how the momentum goes.

Maybe Allen needs win against him

Very fearful today

Why would anyone want the Pats to win?

For Bills own self interest would be good if true. NFL suspend him for a few games as well. Steelers losses to CIN, CLE or AZ would be huge.

Haha. That is what I was going to say. The legend of Da'Rick Rogers lives.

We win these 3 and we are 10-6. Still can miss out if Ind beats HOU and all else falls according to current win %. Per ESPN OAK in at 11-5 IND in at 11-5 HOU in at 10-6

Agreed. Hopefully Bills are not part of the shocking outcomes. Losing a week 17 game to a 3-12 Jets team to miss the playoffs. Very likely scenario they are in a win and your in game to close the season.

Well the title does include the word "now". That would make most people think after this game. Just saying... So much of this improve talk is subjective. He has a bad game and its but he looked better in pocket. He has a good game and its but he missed this pass. I will keep saying this. He is still having a ton of ups and towns. Some weeks the trend line looks up. Some weeks it looks down. The good news in my mind is he has not proven himself to be awful. The bad news is he has not proven himself to be destined to greatness. He could be a middle of the road guy. We are going to wait and see. The disappointment for many is that he was a top 10 pick and we are seeing a lot of other guys play great. Just got to wait this one out a bit.