MrEpsYtown

I think Sills and Easley make the final roster. They are refined receivers who are very good at their craft and they catch the ball. They also have talent. I think Easley would be a backup slot and Sills is a guy who can play the slot or the outside. Easley has some elite quickness number and produced in a pro style offense. He's potentially a bigger Beasley. Easley just needs to beat out McKenzie and Ray Ray, and I think he has a great chance to do so. Sills is in for a fight but he's a guy who finds the endzone and makes contested catches. He and Duke Williams bring that element to the roster, an element that was missing last year. I don't think Ike Boettger or Wyatt Teller would make it through to the practice squad. Ike was claimed last year, and now he has a year under his belt and some game experience. I don't think Boettger makes teh roster, but he will be claimed. I also think Sweeney makes the roster over guys like Croom and Fisher because he projects to be a complete tight end. Though I am intrigued with the Fisher conversion. Jaquan Johnson will make the roster as well imo. So right now I'd say Daryll Johnson and Tyree Jackson are the most likely PS guys. yrel Dodson is pretty interesting as well.

Shane Ray is the most obvious move. Still young, still a lot of upside. He has a ton of speed, a super quick first step and plays with a motor. The dude can play. If his wrist is okay, I could envision him actually replacing Jerry down the line. I think Ray would be a great fit in our scheme, and all the places he's visited, Ravens, Seattle, Raiders, all either signed or drafted edge players, so his market may be a bit dry. I'm not sure if he got in Vance Joseph's doghouse or what, but he really didn't get the same opportunities he got a few years atom when he had a bunch of sacks. Ray can get to the quarterback and adds a good amount of speed and athleticism to the defensive line room.

God that guy sucked. Terrible freaking Rex guy.

Here you go @Rc2catch ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️

Thank you. I think the dissappearing act is the issue. You can't be a number 2-3 receiver in the NFL and have zero catch games, or 3 catches for twenty yards.

It took a while to put all of this together, so I do hope people read through it and don’t just cherry pick or point out my typos. The following is a game by game analysis of Zay’s performance for 2018.I tried to keep bias out and simply present the information, and the timing of Zay’s performances… at what points in games is he producing etc. All in all he had three good games, the Barkley Jets game and the Miami games. I’m not sure if the info here answers the garbage time question, but I did the best I could. Game 1 vs Ravens (Ravens win 47-3) - Zay played 60/64 offensive snaps and had 3 catches for 26 yards on six targets. His first catch came with 13 minutes left in the 4th quarter. The score at that point was 40-6 Ravens. Game 2 vs Chargers (Chargers win 31-20) - Zay played 51/62 snaps and had 2 catches for 63 yards on three targets. One of them was a 57 yard Josh Allen bomb that he juggled and double caught. His first catch came with 10 minutes left in the second quarter. The score at that point was 21-3. The 57 yard catch came with about a minute left in the half. He made a nice a adjustment on that deep ball, but if he catches it clean, he should score (this is where RAC comes in). Anyway it led to a field goal. Zay did nothing else the rest of the game to aid the valiant comeback attempt. Game 3 vs Vikings (Bills win! 27-6) Zay played 42/67 snaps and had 1 catch for 17 yards on 1 target. This came with 3:53 left in the third quarter on a 3rd and 25 with the Bills already up 27-0. Xavier Rhodes was covering KB. Game 4 vs Packers (Pack wins 22-0) Zay played 53/58 snaps and had 4 catches for 38 yards on 7 targets. His first catch came with 6:02 left in the fourth quarter with Green Bay already leading 19-0. He had three more catches. Game 5 vs Tennessee (Bills win 13-12) Zay played 50/65 offensive snaps and had 3 catches for 20 yards on 4 targets. His first catch came in the first quarter on the first drive. On that same drive he had a three yard catch converting a critical 3rd and 2. His next and last reception of the game came in the 4th quarter with 9 minutes left in the game with the Bills leading 10-9. Game 6 vs Houston (Texans win 20-13) Zay played in 58/62 offensive snaps and had 3 catches for 38 yards on 8 targets. And his first TD of the year. His first catch came with 2:53 seconds left in the third quarter with the score 10-3 Texans. He scored his first TD of the year with Peterman in and made a really good catch, making the score 13-10 Buffalo. Game 7 vs Indy (Colts killed us 37-5) Zay played in 51/56 snaps and had 3 catches for 27 yards on 5 targets. His first catch came early in the first with no score. Derek Anderson started this game. Game 8 vs NE (Cheats won 25-6) Zay played in 60/64 snaps and had 6 catches for 55 yards on 8 targets. His first catch was made early in the first quarter. And made 5 more catches dispersed through the game. Game 9 vs Chicago (Bears killed us 41-9 in a game Peterman started) Zay played in 79/91 snaps. He had 4 catches for 18 yards on 6 targets. Zay made his first catch early in the game. He did not make another catch until the third period at which point the score was 28-0 Bears. Game 10 vs Jets (Bills kill them 41-10 with Matt Barkley starting) Zay played in 62/73 snaps. Zay had 8 catches for 93 yards on 11 targets. He also scored his 2nd touchdown of the year. His first catch came late in the first quarter on a critical red zone third down. He got the first down and fumbled the ball trying to score. Jason Croom recovered for the touchdown. That score made it 14-0 Bills. Zay’s touchdown came at the end of the third quarter, putting the Bills up 38-10. Game 11 vs Jacksonville (Bills win a huge game 24-21 after the bye and the return of Josh Allen) Zay played in 55/58 snaps. Zay had 0 catches for 0 yards on 1 target. Just to be fair, Josh Allen only completed 8 of 19 passes. He ran all over the Jags. Game 12 vs Miami (Dolphins win 21-17 in the Charles Clay drop game) Zay played in 66/72 snaps. Zay had 4 catches for 67 yards on 9 targets. He also scored 2 touchdowns. Zay’s first catch came in the second quarter and was a touchdown, tying the game at 7. Zay also scored the touchdown and 2 point conversion that put the Bills up 17-14 in the fourth quarter. He also dropped a critical pass (ruled a catch and overturned) which would have given the Bills a first down inside the 10 with a chance to win with 54 seconds left a few plays before the Clay Hail Mary. Game 13 vs Jets (Jets win 27-23) Zay played in 69/76 plays. He had 3 catches for 22 yards on 9 targets. That’s a pretty crazy stat line. This was the first non Kelvin Benjamin game, but I’m not sure that Zay’s role changed very much as Robert Foster had more snap counts. Zay had two early catches and then did not have another one until the 4th quarter. Game 14 vs Detroit (Bills win 14-13) Zay played in 66/68 snaps. He had 1 catch for 11 yards on 6 targets. His first and only catch of the game came at the end of the first quarter and there was no score. He did get a pass interference call in the 4th that led to the winning touchdown. Game 15 vs NE (Cheats win 24-12) Zay played in 61/61 snaps (100%). He had 5 catches for 67 yards on 9 targets and had 1 touchdown. All of his catches came in the fourth quarter with the score 24-6. His first catch came with 4:37 left in the 4th quarter and the Patriots up 24-6. On the next offensive possession with the Pats up 24-6 and 3 minutes left, Zay had 5 more catches and his touchdown with 1:17 left in the game, making it 24-12. Game 16 vs Miami (Bills kill them 42-17) Zay played in 58/62 snaps. He had 6 catches for 93 yards on 9 targets. He also scored 2 touchdowns. His first touchdown came in the first quarter and put the Bills up 14-0. His second touchdown came mid 4th quarter when the Bills were leading 35-17. Thoughts?

This is where I am at too. At the very least he gives you some serious speed off the edge in wide nine and nickel situations. .

I think it's interesting that he talks about how having a chip on his shoulder helped motivate him. I also think it's interesting that some people on here claim that this is not a real thing and just a sports cliche. So I guess Sweeney is full of it.

I hear you 100%. I agree with your points. I don't think he has made any great plays, but a handful of pretty good plays. In the opportunities he has had to make great plays, he has failed miserably. I am simply saying, and I think Alpha is saying, that there is a chance that one of these guys like Duke or Sills could push Zay off the roster because they have the potential to do everything that he can do, and more. That is kind of where I am at. If Zay shows up as the guy he was at ECU, those other guys have no shot, because the potential is there. But if he is what he is, I could very easily see Sills or Williams giving us 2-3 production, with the ability to make contested catches and red zone size as well. .

But how can you argue against what the dude has actually shown on film? I don't think what he has shown on film is about bias at all. I think he showed that he was a great playmaker in college and has shown none of that ability in the NFL. How can you argue against what is on video? I agree Shaw, I was just trying to explain why the thread is 38 pages. It is all very repetitive.

Somebody answered all of this in this thread somewhere and it was compelling information about how Zay's touchdowns and productions were coming in blowout losses or victories in which games were out of hand. They did a much better job of explaining it than I could ever do.

But just to add, I don't really understand the positive arguments for Zay. Most people are saying Eric Moulds took a while to develop so we need to give Zay time. This is a meaningless comparison. Other are saying he showed great improvement statistically. This is also meaningless. Stats came in garbage time and stats are just stats. Turds like Charles Johnson and Ashley Lelie had 1000 yard seasons. The numbers didn't tell you they sucked. (see I can cherry pick too) I don't think either if those arguments are really valid. Both are reaching. The only positive, and I have argued this in the thread on Zay's behalf, is that he showed tremendous potential in college and he hasn't shown any of that in the NFL. So I believe there may be some untapped talent there. His highlight film in college he looks like a completely different guy. Arguments against is that so far in his career: he has trouble catching the ball (which is the main part of his job), he gets no separation, has no RAC ability, has no ability to make contested catches, and cannot be counted on when the games count. To me that is the eye test, it is what he has actually shown the the field. And that is the big fat turd burger. Nobody can argue against these points. They are facts.

Definitely! this is true on both sides imo. I was trying to be clever.

In the pictures of the guys at the children's hospital on the Bills website, John Brown is wearing 2, and Andre Roberts is wearing 8. Obviously those will change. Morse again was wearing 60, Fisher 84 looking very big, Spain 67 also looking massive, and Waddle 74, and Feliciano 76 with a man bun.

I do not think he has. There is no valid argument against his point. Just cherry picking stats and saying Moulds had a bad first two years, which has nothing to do with Zay. People talk about his statistcal improvement, the majority of which came when games didn't matter. The best argument is that he was a second round pick and will have a longer lease. But anybody looking at it without bias can see that he is not good.

For the most part the same three or four arguments get regurgitated a number of times becuase people jump into the thread and share their opinion without reading what's already been written. Cliffs notes: Zay may not make the roster He is a jag with no special skills He cant catch but he only had three drops he has nice abs eric Moulds though zay stats improved but they were in garbage time zay sucks but Stevie Johnson though

Knox tested much faster than Croom, and he somes some upside as a blocker. Croom ran a 4.69, but Knox is significantly faster and he can actually block. I see no way for Croom to make the roster. I do think Fisher is a long shot as well, but it is an interesting experiment. Knox should push Croom off the roster.

Thanks for posting. I was a young teen during those years. I knew I wanted to see more of Moulds, and I was excited when he got drafted, but as a kid I really did not know what was really going on. Your statement here should end all Zay comparisons to Moulds.

Amazingly, a good chunk of the plays he made his senior year at ECU were in blowout games either way. Most of the close games he disappeared, (an outlier is his 22 catch game in a 20-15 loss to South Carolina). But it appears his entire career was made on padding stats in a gimmicky offense at meaningless times. It is apparent when you watch his highlight films and take a peek at the score. Not saying he is done, but his production is a bit of a mirage.

This is a great point. Zay looks nothing like his college self. That version of the dude was making acrobatic, one handed, contested catching and making people look silly. He had a swagger about his game. You could tell he wanted the ball. This version just seems like a shell of that guy. I hope he gets it back becuase it is in there somewhere.

Andy chance Gary Barnidge was there? Any chance Baker can get him to sign? ?

I think it depends on how you view Foster. Many see Zay and Brown as the starters outside with Beasley in the slot and Foster as a situational player. I see Foster as a starter with Zay's role up in the air. As the year progressed we saw Foster running the full route tree and making plays other than deep flys. He's a potential game breaker and that cannot be ignored. I also feel feel like this team truly believes in roles. Beasley is the slot and they will need a backup there. Now is that Zay? Or McKenzie, or perhaps Easley? Zay gives you some flexibility being able to play inside and outside, but Easley is the closest thing to Beasley. We saw a little bit of this with Kerley and Ray Ray last season. And it is why Ray Ray made the team over Brandon Reilly, becuase he's a slot and Brandon was not. They each will have defined roles. Both Duke and Sills played a lot on the outside, but also played a good bit of big slot in college. My point is that there will be a backup slot player in the roster. Maybe that's Roberts? On another note, I see this team running a lot of two tight end sets with Kroft and Knox. If that is the case, the number of receivers you keep may be affected. Knox is a guy who can move all over the place and gives you a ton of flexibility in terms of what you can do with offensive formations.

Yep this is probably true as well.

He certainly gets himself a bit open, which is an abilty no one really questioned too much. You know what else I see here? A few double clutches, catching the ball with his body, zero contested catches, and absolutely zero RAC ability. And all of his highlights came in like three games. To me this highlight really confirms what a lot of people think about Zay, that he is very ordinary. Now watch David Sills do everything Zay does, and more. Granted its college versus pros which is the biggest difference and obviously a huge factor. But Sills gets open, intermediate and deep, wins jump balls, makes contested catches and shows off RAC ability. Now watch Duke Williams do a whole bunch of stuff that Zay doesn't do. Again this is the CFL, not the NFL. And I get that, but he offers abilities that Zay has not shown. Just to be fair, I'm not a Zay hater. But I want to know, where the hell did this guy go: I get that it's the NFL now, but Zay looks nothing like the guy we thought we were getting. That ability is in there somewhere. He's done it. I want to see him let it out a little bit and be confident catching the ball and prove me wrong. (BTW, ironically, a lot of his college highlights are in garbage time of games too. Go figure. I still think there is some immense talent he showed in college that he hasn't shown at all in the pros)

Is that you Tuhrod?