MrEpsYtown

I think it depends on how you view Foster. Many see Zay and Brown as the starters outside with Beasley in the slot and Foster as a situational player. I see Foster as a starter with Zay's role up in the air. As the year progressed we saw Foster running the full route tree and making plays other than deep flys. He's a potential game breaker and that cannot be ignored. I also feel feel like this team truly believes in roles. Beasley is the slot and they will need a backup there. Now is that Zay? Or McKenzie, or perhaps Easley? Zay gives you some flexibility being able to play inside and outside, but Easley is the closest thing to Beasley. We saw a little bit of this with Kerley and Ray Ray last season. And it is why Ray Ray made the team over Brandon Reilly, becuase he's a slot and Brandon was not. They each will have defined roles. Both Duke and Sills played a lot on the outside, but also played a good bit of big slot in college. My point is that there will be a backup slot player in the roster. Maybe that's Roberts? On another note, I see this team running a lot of two tight end sets with Kroft and Knox. If that is the case, the number of receivers you keep may be affected. Knox is a guy who can move all over the place and gives you a ton of flexibility in terms of what you can do with offensive formations.

Yep this is probably true as well.

He certainly gets himself a bit open, which is an abilty no one really questioned too much. You know what else I see here? A few double clutches, catching the ball with his body, zero contested catches, and absolutely zero RAC ability. And all of his highlights came in like three games. To me this highlight really confirms what a lot of people think about Zay, that he is very ordinary. Now watch David Sills do everything Zay does, and more. Granted its college versus pros which is the biggest difference and obviously a huge factor. But Sills gets open, intermediate and deep, wins jump balls, makes contested catches and shows off RAC ability. Now watch Duke Williams do a whole bunch of stuff that Zay doesn't do. Again this is the CFL, not the NFL. And I get that, but he offers abilities that Zay has not shown. Just to be fair, I'm not a Zay hater. But I want to know, where the hell did this guy go: I get that it's the NFL now, but Zay looks nothing like the guy we thought we were getting. That ability is in there somewhere. He's done it. I want to see him let it out a little bit and be confident catching the ball and prove me wrong. (BTW, ironically, a lot of his college highlights are in garbage time of games too. Go figure. I still think there is some immense talent he showed in college that he hasn't shown at all in the pros)

Is that you Tuhrod?

It was just right there in the open. I had to do it

So thank you Andy Dalton?

According to many on here, apparently having a chip on your shoulder is not a real thing. But it I agree with you. Duke brings a little something different to that receiver room that needs an edge and some swagger, ala Robert Woods. Both Duke and Sills bring that energy.

I still think Shane Ray should be the guy. He was SEC defensive player of the year. He's been effective for the Broncos as an OLB in limited playing time. He's only 25. I know he might has off field things and some injury issues, but he plays like his hair is on fire. To me he's a younger Jerry Hughes, who was miscast in a 3-4 and found his home as a 4-3 end here after some lackluster time in Indy. Mitch Morse, EJ Gaines, and Marcus Murphy are all former teammates at Missouri, and could in theory vouch for him. I think there is tremendous upside here.

if you watch the video you see Kevin Johnson in 36

Sills and Duke also give you that go up and get the ball element that you don't get from anyone else on the roster.m

Winovich is a nice player, but he just does not fit the mold of what they look for as an end. He has very little length. I think he will be good for the Pats because they will move him around and have him do different things. That isn't McDermott's style. I feel like he is the type of player that would be quite low on their draft board, if he is even on it at all.

Just to add, because I don't think the situation for Moulds and Jones are the same. While Moulds is a guy who made it, I feel like there are way more guys who struggled like Zay and washed out. The Troy Williamsons, Charles Rogers, Laquon Treadwells of the world. That is how I view Zay. In the case of a guy like Treadwell, he's only been targeted 91 times in his career. He is going to wash out without ever really getting an opportunity and playing behind better players. The caveat is that we don't know how these guys are performing on the practice field. Zay is playing by default and being targeted by default. I don't feel as if Zay has earned the reps, but that is just my own assumption and bias. I don't remember a lot of the details of why Moulds was bad the first couple of years, I was a 14 year old kid running around, but I don't think Zay is struggling to pick up the NFL game. But I also think, that if the Bills had better players the Zay's first two years, he would not have seen the field. He was given a ton of opportunities and he blew most of them. Maybe he was not ready to be on the field. I actually think he is a smart player, who understands zones and things of that nature. I don't think he is struggling to pick up the game or the offense. He is struggling to make plays, and that is why I question his talent. He is struggling with things like catching the ball, running fast, blocking, making plays on contested catches. He showed some skill in that regard in college, so I have a tiny glimmer of hope that he finds his game. I don't think Jones has been inconsistent his first two years, I think he has been downright awful. I don't know if it's an effort thing, a focus thing, a talent thing, or a little bit of all of that. And if it weren't for what he showed in college, I would have already cut him. My whole thing is , that there are now people on the roster who are hungry and can do things that he can't do. So I very much think that he is on notice. I think there is a pretty much zero percent chance we see a Moulds like break out because I just don't think Zay Jones is talented enough. He's had the opportunity to show his talent and he has shown very little. I thinks he's a basically David Nelson without the size and with a better prospect pedigree. I am not waiting to see Zay's game click, I am waiting to see his talent, and to me it appears that there isn't much there. There is a place on a roster for a guy like that, but the minute you get some better players, he is out. That's where I am at.

Good stuff.

Awesome video. And If you are Oliver or Ford it must be pretty cool to see how excited they were to get you. They tell you they were excited and obviously they take you, but seeing it must be special on another level. Even for Knox he sees how they specifically targeted him to get their guy.

Yep agreed. I don't know how they missed the most likely combination imo.

Id have to go back and watch the games to really know, but I remember Moulds flashing big play abilty and I do remember people being dissapointed that he was not consistent. You make a lot good points, and I understand the idea that people can develop. But Zay has shown no signs that he might be more than he is, which is a mediocre receiver. Is he an NFL receiver? Yes he deserves to be in the league. But he is just meh and will probably not make it to a significant second contract. He's like Jordan Mathews without the size or good hands.

Zero is one word. Did you read the rest? Look at targets? Consider that Early and Reed were very old when Moulds broke out? Moulds did not have enough targets his first two years to make a significant impact. Zay was targeted 176 times in two years and has less than a thousand yards receiving. It isn't about just playing time. It's about targets, That's what I mean when I talk about opportunity. Zay will never be able to come close to Eric Moulds. He doesn't have it.

I think that is kind of where I am. To me Duke and Sills project to be able to do everything Zay does, plus high point the ball, be red zone threats and make plays on contested catches. Now obviously they have yet to prove anything. Even Nick Easley could give you elite quickness from the slot position. They all bring something different from the table. You could call Zay an all around guy, but everything about him is mediocre. Brown and Foster give you elite speed, and Beasley is a really good slot guy.

Jones and Moulds are nothing alike. I mean Moulds' first year he was playing with prime Andre Reed and behind Quinn Early and did not get a ton of opportunities. His second year he played with Todd Collins. And I do remember people feeling like he was a bust. Year three was his breakout with Doug Flutie and Andre Reed clearly on the downside at 34. IIt was also the first time he really got a legit opportunity to play. Look at the numbers: 1996 Moulds started 5 games. He was targeted 37 times and had 20 receptions. 1997 Moulds started 8 games. He was targeted 52 times and had 29 receptions. Not sure if Todd Collins sucked more than Tyrod. It's debatable. 1998 Moulds started 15 games. He was targeted 116 times and had 67 receptions for 1,368 yards and 20.4 yards per reception and 9 touchdowns. (Aside from a December game against the Raiders, none of these games were blowouts with garbage time.) This was also during a time where the league was not as pass happy as it is now. Even in his early years, there was some evidence of game breaking ability. But people did question him, despite the lack of targets and opportunities. 2017 Jones started 10 games. He was targeted 74 times and had 27 receptions. (Plus a sweet playoff game with 2 catches on 4 targets for 20 yards.) 2018 Jones started 15 games. He was targeted 102 times and had 56 receptions for 652 yards and 11.6 yards per receptions and 7 TDs. (remember that these stats were padded in garbage time play) I think this is not an apt comparison. One guy had zero opportunity to play and when he finally got the chance he broke out in a huge way. the other has had a million opportunities and has been super mediocre. Jones was targeted 102 times and hd just 652 yards. To me that is a staggering number. One of these guys was a game breaking player who sat behind a legend and HOF player his first two years and when he had his chance to shine, broke out. In two years Zay Jones has been targeted 176 times and has 83 career catches and less than 1000 yards. 176 targets and less than 100 yards!!! That's crazy. He has been a focal point of the offense and has put up very mediocre and pedestrian numbers. He has had these opportunities because of his draft status. Anybody else would have been cut. He's lucky we've been in a rebuild. That, and his draft status are the only reasons he is still around.

It's probably just a Daboll special. He will get some swag, shirts and shorts, and we will never hear from him again. Good for him. He will go the way of Kenny Guiton, message board hero.

I get you.I just don't buy his statistics as being anything all that real. I just don't see it with Zay. I don't see game breaking ability. He doesn't make plays. I want to give him a break for his terrible play his rookie year with Tyrod, and I get that he was injured, but boy as bad as Tyrod was, some of Zay's drops were right on the money. I think you have to attribute his increase in statistics as having played so many snaps with better quarterback play. I think it's impossible for a guy to play as much as he did, be targeted as much as he was, and not put up these numbers. Any receiver in the NFL could do what he did imo.

Great points. I do wonder which of these guys can be special teams guys. Outside of Foster I'm not sure. And if Foster is a starter here, maybe he doesn't play teams. I know it's not the biggest deal, but whoever makes the team needs to have some flexibility and versatility imo. I actually like the Iowa Easley kid a lot and I think he makes a great amount of sense as a slot guy, but he perhaps does make it to the practice. I agree that I don't think Sills does and Sills and Duke both offer size, which I think is something that is desperately needed here.

I don't want to get into some internet argument, but I'm not sure what you are implying. Are you saying the quarterback play was terrible last year? With Josh you can see the obvious upside, despite his inconsistencies. I don't see the upside with Zay.

I think all of the backup linebackers are on notice. If Mo Alexander is a linebacker, and Joseph is, then there is maybe 1 space up for grabs.

Remember who the quarterback was those two years. Are you basically saying our receivers were so terrible for two years that this terrible receiver had better stats than them? Is that what makes him special? I'm sorry but that is a totally meaningless point. This is crap, but that was more crappy, so this is better crap. It is still crap. Zay is nothing special. You could put almost anyone in there and get the same production imo. You can tell me whatever you think about what I know. He sucks. His rookie year sucked, his sophomore year was full of stats in garbage time. He's just not a big deal. He doesn't make plays. I liked the pick at that time, but he has proven to be a waste. I hope he surprises me, and iIhope he is good, and I'd be happy to come back to this thread and admit that I was wrong. I'm not holding my breath for that.