MrEpsYtown

And just to add, teams get stuck with bad kickers when they draft them or pay them. Because they invested a pick or money in them, they feel the need to stick with them, sometimes way too long. Kickers are so volatile, like bullpen arms in baseball, so it just doesn’t make sense to invest too much in one.

For sure. I think the majority of the quarterbacks who are good, special etc. (aside from 199 and a few outliers) are quarterbacks drafted in the first round. That’s the biggest thing, you want to get a quarterback? Odds are you need to find him in the first round. That is not the case with kickers, you can find them anywhere and the majority are UDFAs. You just have to find the right one. So I guess my point is that if you look at the draft as a science, history says draft a quarterback early, do not draft a kicker anywhere.

There is actually a lot of debate out there questioning whether he was worth a first round pick. People for him point out how good he was from long range, and as you said a true weapon. Other people feel that even though he made big kicks and was a weapon, he wasn’t really the best kicker in the league at any point and won’t be in the Hall of Fame. In all honesty he doesn’t even crack the top 10 list of kickers the last 20 years. So was he good? Yes. His leg was a missle and he could do some things nobody else could. But was he really worth a first round pick? I don’t think so. (Especially when you consider who was picked 199 in that particular draft.) But yeah I thinks it’s up for debate. He was good, but wasn’t as good as his peers who are mostly UDFAs and late rounders, so the value just isn’t there.

I really think Tua is going to go to the Chargers for a variety of reasons. Tua is a good fit for Chan Gailey’s offense, but I agree that I’m not sure Miami loves him. Good work @GunnerBill. Have you worked through a second round? And if so what is available when the Bills pick comes up?

It’s just that they are such specialized skills that if you have one guy doing both jobs, he probably won’t be able to truly do a great job at both. There is also increased chance of injury and dead leg. The limited time in practice also hurts. Having an effective punter and kicker is way more important than having and extra 4th string linebacker.

I recall them putting in a claim for their own UDFA Chase McClaughlin when he was waived by the 49ers and awarded to the Colts. Looks like he is the Colts’ guy going forward. This could definitely be a place they could look for an upgrade and I would not be totally against using a pick, just not before the 5th round. I do hope they draft Mann or Turk as a new punter.

Davis-Gaither, Hall, and Orr are all potential Milano replacements if he doesn’t re-sign. All undersized guys with speed and coverage skills to play WILL. And as others have said, corner and safety look to be a focus.

100%. I totally agree. And I think that is why you can’t draft one high. Kickers are a strange science and way too risky. Just sign an UDFA every year, and one will stick.

I agreed with the goalie idea. But I don’t think Tampa had the right idea. I think they made him a head case by drafting him so early while you can typically get one as an UDFA. Here’s my thing, I know the draft is a crapshoot, but look at the names drafted immediately after Agyuao....James Bradberry, Vonn Bell, Yannick Ngakoue, Austin Hooper, and later in that draft Matt Judon and Tyreek Hill (in fact when Tamp traded up, they gave extra picks to Kansas City, which likely gave them the confidence to take a shot on a controversial Hill later that draft.) Anyway, it’s revisionist history, but in this very draft Ka’imi Fairbarn and Wil Lutz were UDFA. The value just isn’t there when drafting a kicker, especially when you consider what you might be passing on.

Kaare Vedvik. I believe he is focusing on punting as he has been awful as a place kicker. The Ravens had him and he was an interesting prospect who kicked really well in preseason. The Ravens traded him to the Vikings for a 5th round pick, and he was so bad they cut him a couple of weeks later. The Jets signed him and he pretty much singlehandedly lost the Bills-Jets game week 1. And they cut him. He’s a guy who seems like he can’t handle the pressure in games. This is interesying when talking about the value of kickers:

Good thing this isn’t Buddy Nix anymore. You know some team with an antiquated front office will be inundated with penises during their zoom draft.

What I would do to get in on our Bills zoom meeting???

This was awesome @Virgil. Thanks for running things

The draft value just isn’t there early becuase that is how the entire league views it. I think Tampa’s trading up and drafting Roberto Aguayo will forever ruin the chance at highly picked kickers. They drafted him 59 and gave up 74 and 106 to get to him. And some people are upset about we gave up for Diggs. https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/244486/why-the-roberto-aguayo-episode-was-entirely-unnecessary Pretty good article that dives into the idea that there is an extreme randomness to the kickers that make it, even more of a crapshoot than other positions, so basically don’t draft one. I think they are undervalued, but I’d have to disagree on the second most important position. Its QB, protect the Qb, get to the QB. So QB, LT, edge. Kickers score a ton of points and fantasy etc, but I’m not sure how much they actually contribute to winning a football game. Meaning if you look at AV, which is like baseball’s war stat, it shows that kickers are not that valuable, and that the difference between a hall of fame kicker and an ok one is not much. I’m not married to AV and pff and stuff, actually I don’t really like pff. I just wanted to point out what a lot of the research out there is saying on the topic. The biggest thing is that you have to find the right one, and that isn’t typically through the draft.

I suppose you always worry about what you pass on when you take a kicker. Hindsight 2020, but when we took Dustin Hopkins we passed on guys like Adam Thielen, Jack Doyle, Jordan Poyer etc. Also Jason Myers and Brandon McManus were UDFA that year, so there is some risk in using a draft pick to take a kicker.

Kickers are a weird science. Most of the best ones aren’t even drafted. I don’t know if it puts undue pressure on a guy, but it’s a strange science. Now punters on the other hand are a bit different. Teams who have drafted punters the last few years have gotten their money’s worth...I’d be down with the Mann idea. Obviously you can find punters as UDFA as well. I’m guessing Mann goes in the 5th? I’d be good with Michael Turk as well. He’s only a redshirt sophomore so I think there is a lot of improvement to be had and I think bloodlines are important in situations like this. Turk’s bigger, stronger body is probably ideal for kicking outdoors in Buffalo. Just to add, Braden Mann and Michael Turk both ran a faster 40 than Preston Brown.

How the hell is Cooks only 26 years old? That blows my mind. I feel like he’s an 8 year vet.

Maybe its just my homerism, but to me the surprise there is Kyler Murray. Allen should be up there. He is a couple of deep balls away from putting up some ridiculous numbers.

Oliver sack fumble against the cowgirls for sure. Allens throw to Beasley between three guys vs cowgirls...pretty much the whole Thanksgiving game. I loved the Duke touchdown vs the Titans. And there was a play where a back out of the backfield needed like 5 yards and only got 4 because Tremaine ranged over and made a great tackle. I can’t remember what game that was.

Honestly, there is nothing left out there that is better than our starters. Some good depth like Cam Erving or James Hurst, but no true upgrades out there. Daryl Williams was probably the best we could do and we got him. I feel like we are in a good place there.

Randall Cobb and Cooks on the same teams seems a but redundant, but I think it will help Watson. But losing Hopkins is just inexcusable.

Anybody wanna get a gofundme together and send one of these to Ramsey, maybe one to Gilmore too?

My wife thinks I’m an overgrown child, but that’s one of the funniest shows of my lifetime in my opinion.

Now he has a chance to win, and he's making huge money on his new five-year contract, but beyond that, now he knows people will see him on TV. No matter what he does, good or bad, it will matter in the grand scheme of the NFL. That matters to players a lot more than we think. I mean could he not afford to buy his family NFL Sunday ticket? That’s how I watched his games. He can’t say he is worried about exposure and winning at the same time. Those things don’t always go together: Let’s see how much exposure Mr. Eyebrows is getting when the Pats start to blow without Mrs. Brady.

This is true. But I also think there is a chance he wouldn’t be as good becuase he’d be getting burnt in that system. Tre is awesome, but he is in a place and system with one of the best DB guys around in McDermott. It’s more of a two way street imo. Even during draft time Tre was a little under the radar. Imo, if Tre goes its going to be Josh Norman 2.0.