Kelly the Dog

My argument includes starters and backups. If you don’t have the minimum requirement for even a 3-4 game stretch you shouldn’t be considered for either. There have been guys in the league with rag arms but no one with any even backup success as far as I’m concerned. And I don’t want them on my team.

My understanding was that he was fine a few weeks into the season and was just sitting on his couch waiting for a call from anyone (working out hard, of course). The Barkley (and guys like him) sucks hill is something that I have been harping on for 30 years and it's never been proven false, unless you want to count Chad Pennington, who is the only QB in those years that has been successful with a rag arm. I understand that you don't think Barkley has a rag arm and you're entitled to that opinion. I would love to see the deep out he has gunned at any time in his career. If he had Josh McCown's arm, whom you referenced earlier, I would be all over this signing.

No, I have already explained that he's capable of having a game like that, and that I loved it, and he's capable of having others. He never had before, however, he's been released by five other teams a total of seven times, was a fourth round pick because of the same reasons I am giving, and he's likely never to again because of stuff I have explained already, too, with specific reasons. All you have offered is he's great, look at his one game.

He wasn't hurt when they signed Anderson, which was two weeks before.

I wasn't either. But what I meant was, guys like Barkley and Peterman can look great in preseason with physical limitations because the game is played at 3/4 speed. If Barkley had a slightly better arm I would be all for this. But he doesn't. And people will say I would much better have accuracy than a strong arm and they will be both right and wrong and completely missing the point.

The general consensus around the league the last 50 years is that your back-up QB should be able to hold the fort if your starter goes down. Not win games for you but not lose them either. And if you can break even, say, go 2-2 if your starter misses four games versus 0-4 or 1-3, you have a good back-up. Barkley is not that guy and five teams have already decided that. This isn't a question of experience or a guy finally getting it. Barkley "got it" a long time ago. His physical limitations are what always did and always will hold him back. He's also capable of having games like he did against the Jets. He never had one like that in his whole career but he is capable of it if his weak-ass throws are not intercepted when they could or should be, like happened in that game. He's always been a smart guy with pretty good accuracy. But he's Peterman Plus and that ain't good enough, which is why the Bills are his sixth team. Not sure who is going to be available. The Bills thought DA was a much better choice before they signed Barkley.

Playing great in preseason should be renamed "The Nathan Peterman Syndrome."

Joe Dufek in his prime or Joe Dufek now?

"You guys" are everyone who thinks this is a good move because of what he showed in his one game, and not in his entire career of crappiness and getting cut seven times. He's just like Peterman, only slightly smarter. We're all in this together wanting the Bills to win. I don't think this helps them in the long run to win, he's not good enough to win half his games if you need him for a long stretch if your starter goes down. He had the best game of his career, and I was absolutely thrilled with it, but he has been on six teams for a reason; he's not good enough. And he didn't show in that one game that his death knell doesn't exist.

It's a compliment. Look who Gruden gave away and look at who he signed.

You guys are going to regret this the next time he is asked to play close to a full game that counts.

The Lions decided not to rush hard, that is why Josh had time and had a pocket most of the afternoon, and we saw what he could do from it. But he is not going to have that pocket and time in the last couple games. The line didn't really get that much better the defense was just stupid. This is not Josh's fault. In fact, it shows more about how good he is already if anything. He never got time the whole season on a regular basis. And he picked them apart. Plus, it is a testament to his skills that this happened. Patricia decided that he wasn't going to let Allen beat him with his running so he allowed him to pass. And Josh beat him with his arm.

Yup. How many here can say that they have never been pissed off at something about work and then gone off and partied for 48 hours straight with Swedes. I bet they were out looking to curbstomp a couple Fins.

I saw the same rumor, probably from a different source, on twitter the day he got suspended. It's one of the few possibilities that make sense. I believe this one, in combination with he's pissed about playing time and role.

Understood. I don't know either way like I said. The Peterman Experiment scares me. The not having a veteran with Josh until Anderson is scary. Castillo is a huge mistake. Dennison was a huge mistake. Daboll looks pretty good but jury is still out. Not surrounding Josh with any speed until halfway through the season is scary. Not having a real QB coach is scary.

If Josh looks pretty good but they keep signing guys like Peterman and Zay and Benjamin and Marshall Newhouse and Russell Bodine, they will be here for a decade?

I agree with you. I'm not convinced that Beane and McD know anything at all about offense. Originally it was thought by many, including me, that their choice of QBs in this year's draft was going to all but make or break their Bills careers. But now I'm thinking their overall ability to fill holes in the offense, from OL to WR to TE to RB to coaching, with all this money and draft picks, is what is ultimately going to make or break them. I wouldn't bet either way on them. Let's see what happens. I think they need 4 OL, 2-3 WR, 2 TE, a new OL coach and a new QB coach, and likely a new backup QB.

Not really. Even if you say it wasn't Whaley, the guy who actually drafts, Beane was not there yet when Zay was drafted, nor the guys there in scouting and personnel now he hired after he took the job. Plus the only thing we know for sure about Beane and McD's list of QBs is that they preferred Allen to Rosen. They traded up to seven knowing they were going to draft one of four or five guys, not that they were doing it for one, Allen. If he was taken at three, they would have taken Darnold or Rosen and said he was their guy all along and how lucky they were. But Beane did not draft Zay in any way.

Zay would have been replaced by James Washington long ago. Probably by opening day.

You said they didn't have a number one on their roster so I responded to that. And a #2 pick in the supplemental is the same as a regular draft because you lose your #2 in the next draft. Dorsett has 27 catches and a couple TDs as a last resort, so he does play. Now you're saying Zay freakin' Jones is as good as Michael Thomas?! Thomas just gets elevated by his QB? Zay Jones is AWFUL. Thomas makes spectacular catches all the time.

The Pats and Saints have excellent WR, especially compared to the Bills. Draft position has nothing to do with it. Not to mention that Josh is playing with a #2 who was the worst WR in the entire league last year, plus a #5 who was cut twice this year, a #6 and two UDFA, both of whom were cut twice this year. And the Pats have two first rounders (Dorsett and Patterson, and a two in Gordon, who is one of the best WR in the league. And Edelman. And Hogan.

So you didn't watch the game? I know you know this, but Josh threw numerous passes with touch, including his very best ones (the TD, the game-clinching Croom throw, etc), and didn't throw fastballs the whole game.

As soon as we get six new OL, three new WR and couple TEs, watch out!! Yes, he has been playing with crap this season, it's the biggest factor.

There was a stat I saw yesterday that seemed to say in passes over ten yards in the air this season, Allen has the second highest completion percentage in the league. That is a good indication of accuracy, too.

Below average can still play. I didn't say he had a strong arm. But he can make all the throws. A lot of pretty successful quarterbacks have "below average" arms. IMO there is an enormous difference between "below average" which is a minimum requirement but passing nonetheless, and "rag" which is below the minimum requirement and failing.