The Now Moment

Haha wow. My brain somehow forgot Benjamin but I actually like the kid when healthy. I understand the beef with that move though since he has been hurt. I just think an OC move is the right move. He wasn't his first choice and he basically has a chance to hit the reset button as it seems like we will be getting our new QB this offseason. Why not pair the young QB with a young innovative OC who isn't set in his ways? It certainly will be an interesting offseason

Not trying to bash you or anything I'm just wondering if I missed something. Sure we grabbed Tolbert, Webb and Leonard Johnson but really that's been it from what I can remember. Oh and the wide out that was here for a few weeks. I don't see that as being a lot for a new coach though and some of those guys will likely be replaced this offseason

Who from Carolina has McDermott grabbed as a coach? Frazier, Dennison, Castillo, both Babichs, Boras, Byrd, Waufle, Teerlinck...none of those guys are from Carolina. I guess I am just missing the guys that you say McDermott brought from Carolina.

Jared Goff was hot garbage year one...

I understand your points but I also compare them to to other good head coaches, especially your arrogance comment. What good head coaches aren't arrogant? Belicheck, Tomlin, Carroll, Coughlin...you could go back as far as the beginning and most of those guys are arrogant. Why would a coach come in and continue to say he made poor decisions for every move that was slightly questionable? Wouldn't that just open the door to make everyone poke holes in his coaching abilities? I get what you're saying but I think a coach has to have a certain level of arrogance and confidence in his abilities. If a guy keeps saying he f'd up, I don't think he'd have the respect of his locker room. I want a guy who believes in what he is doing and coaching with confidence, not a guy who apologies every press conference to keep the fans happy about his character traits. That's not a winning attitude.

The guy is a rookie HC that is bound to make mistakes. If he repeats some mistakes in the future...then we can talk.

Can I ask why you don't have respect for Carolina? I mean, they had the number 1 overall pick when we grabbed Dareus and they've seen a Super Bowl and a few other playoff games already since then. To me, that deserves respect

This is a sad world we live in. If this is true, I hope it doesn't hurt the kid's future.

Always looking for guys that can help for the future too. If he plays well, they could sign him to a small deal going into next season. If he plays well, then you got another corner which is a need. If not, you cut him and no harm done. Keep bringing in competition to get better

I think that's the whole point of getting a guy like that, they aren't set in their ways like most veteran coaches. They can build an offense around a young QB.

I think there will be a a new set of young OCs getting their opportunity and I'd like to get on that train.

Unfortunately, the problem with these guys is they are under contract with their teams and the teams don't have to let them talk to us if they aren't a candidate for a head coaching job. This makes it difficult but I still like these guys.

We've all discussed how we aren't in love with Dennison to no end but who would you replace him with? I like two names in particular. I don't know how I feel about getting an older retread guy. Instead, I'd like to grab the next young buck that has experience handling young QBs. My first option would be: John DeFilippo, QB Coach Philadelphia He was around to help develop a younger Derek Carr and now Carson Wentz. He spent one year in Cleveland as OC with Pettine before that entire staff got wiped out. He has a solid resume at QB Coach and is 39 years old. I think pairing him with a rookie QB could be our best option. My second option would be: Ken Dorsey, QB Coach Carolina He got started as a QB developer for the draft and has spent the last few seasons with Cam Newton and Cam's play immediately jumped after he arrived. He's 36 years old. Ultimately, I'm looking to change course from the older coaches who seem to be more set in their ways. These two young guys don't have the experience calling plays and that will likely be an adjustment for them. However, their experience with young QBs is undeniable and may be the best option for us to pair with a rookie QB. I think a young OC with some spunk should be the way to go...who do you guys have on your radar if Dennison is shown the door after the season?

I don't see him loving the rotation system that McD runs. Could be wrong but I just don't see him as that type of player.

Huge difference between the two. The simple aggression that Wilson plays with in the passing game puts him in a completely different category than Tyrod. Tyrod is conservative and doesn't take chances while Wilson consistently takes chances and has a high success rate when doing so. His willingness to let his wide receivers make a play and trust in his teammates is on a different level than Tyrod's.

The worst and I mean the worst thing you can do is look at stats when it comes to college QBs. Many college systems inflate the statistics of a QB and some teams can either inflate or deflate a QBs statistics based on the personnel around them. To evaluate a college QB, you have to watch them play. Numbers simply do not say enough. Even the play on the field sometimes isn't enough. You have to look at if the player is a leader and how he controls/runs the offense or if he is just a product of a system. Not trying to bash you or anything of the sort but the eye test is much better to go off of than any numbers and even the eye test isn't enough. That's why drafting QBs is such a crap shoot and an undefined science.

I wonder if there will be another pre-draft trade in this draft as there have been in the past. I expect both the Giants and Cleveland to draft a QB in those spots but who knows. We shall see. I'm sure the FO will look under every rock to find our next QB. Hopefully, it works out. Indy will certainly get a few phone calls from us this year even if it isn't about Luck. That situation is certainly one to keep an eye on and we would have the ammo if they decided to take their next QB at 3 and fill out the rest of the roster by what they get in a deal for Luck...that's a dream scenario though. It'll be a wild offseason though. This board is going to go nuts no matter what we do haha

The second part is right on, however, we currently have two first round picks in the twenties which makes it difficult to move up into the top 5 which is where they'd need to get to grab their guy. It'll be challenging to make that far of a jump up into the draft. I don't know of a time where a team has traded up from the twenties to the top five for a QB. With all of the QB needy teams already in the top ten, it will be difficult. The point I was trying to make, is that the opportunity to do that may not be there and that we shouldn't just take the leftovers of the top 6 that you mentioned just because we have a need. With all the QB needy teams already in the top 10 that can trade up themselves, it'll be difficult for us. Also, you honestly don't believe a former 1st overall pick who has been in the NFL for many years and had 3,800 yards passing with 20 TDs and 5 INTs with a 71.6 completion percentage in 15 games last year with Minnesota could help out a rookie transition into the NFL? If you don't, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that front. I'd rather not rush the QB into the first and let them develop the off the field habits that are needed to succeed in this league. KC has sat Mahomes underneath Alex Smith this year to learn, Derek Carr wasn't supposed to start at all his first year but injuries thrust him into the lineup, Jimmy G sat behind Brady and has turned out to look pretty good. I think a year to learn behind a veteran QB would be smart. Like I said, unless it is Rosen or Darnold, I think that should be the way to go.

Even the top QBs drafted in the last several years haven't even sniffed Brady or Rodgers. Jared Goff was garbage without any weapons and still has some trouble with things like holding onto the ball...look at the Philly game. Wentz is surrounded by great talent. Winston has been up and down with some top receiving talent and Mariota isn't that great of a passer. Keep going back and that will continue. You can say all you want about the elite QBs blah blah blah...they have to be there though. These guys were taken number 1 and 2 and aren't even in the same breath as the QBs in which you describe. The opportunity to draft the player and the player himself has to be there. In the last several years, they haven't been. Who knows how any of these guys will do in the NFL. We will see.

Like I said, if there is one there that is the right fit and we actually think he will succeed here, then take him. However, just because there are 6 there, doesn't mean they will be the right guy for this team. Again, I am not for just blindly taking one that may not be that great a fit. Not all of these guys are great, don't just listen to what other people say. Some experts don't think Rudolph should be taken in the top 2 rounds. Some don't have Mayfield in the first round. Some don't have Jackson in the first round. Some don't have Allen being taken in the first round. If you actually watch these guys play, there are holes in their games. I have my own opinions on the class. Like I said, I'm not blindly taking one just to take one. That's just poor drafting. If they actually love the guy and think he's the next franchise QB, then let's do it. Impatience can hurt us if we don't take a guy we love. Honestly, I don't care how long we've waited previously. Bottom line, you don't take a QB in the 1st round unless you love him and think you can coach him up. There's a reason a guy like Watson was so successful coming out. He went to the perfect team. Former college coach Bill O'brien ran a college system similar to the one that Watson ran at Clemson and that familiarity clearly helped him. The fit was right. Does he have the same type of success with a different team that may not know how to use him like O'brien does? That's why I don't see us taking a guy like Lamar Jackson. I don't think we want to deal with anymore QBs who run and potentially put themselves in danger. Watson, although a great talent is already injured in his first year. RG3 was constantly hurt. EJ got hurt on a running play. Tyrod is and has been hurt. I think they want to move away from that. Personally, I don't think Rudolph has the type of mobility that they are looking for. Not that they want a running QB but a guy who can roll out of the pocket and make passes outside the pocket on the run will certainly be something we look for as that will take some pressure off of the offensive line. He also seems to have the worst arm strength in terms of zip amongst the top QBs in this class. For those reasons, I don't want him and don't think he'll be that successful here. So that brings me down to 4 QBs that I'd be willing to take in the 1st round. I agree, I believe we will end up taking a QB but our draft picks are both in the 20s right now. Depending on how the draft goes, it'll be difficult to get one of the top guys even if we trade up. Who knows who falls or if 4 go in the top 10. We may end up having to trade the house for a guy like Allen or Mayfield who aren't the first tier guys in this class. Also, the trade partner may not be there. Who knows if a team would be willing to trade back all the way to the twenties from the top ten if those 4 guys are sure to be taken in the top 10. We will see. All I'm saying is don't draft a guy unless you absolutely love him. Just because we have a need doesn't mean we need to force the issue in the first round and grab just anybody. Look at the 1983 draft class. Obviously that's a few years ago haha but 6 QBs went in that class which has been deemed one of the best ever. 6 QBs in the first round and 3 ended up being hall of famers, 1 ended up being good and 2 ended up being busts and that is considered one of the best QB classes of all time. Don't just blindly take one or we may end up with the Tony Eason/Todd Blackledge of the class. I will say that I think that if we don't get Rosen or Darnold, we should try to bring in a veteran QB like Bradford for a year to help the rookie learn a little. If Bradford gets hurt, you can throw in the rookie with Bradford to stay in the rookie's ear and help him out. We shall see. Obviously, I hope we find our guy this year no matter where we end up drafting him. We will be able to better gage how high these QBs will go once the senior bowl, combine and interviews are over.

While he looked good as a pass rusher, he looked like a liability against the run game at times. He only played at a high level one year in college and really didn't dominate. He was really good but he wasn't on the same level as some of the other DTs. Right now, we need a guy like Vea who can take multiple blockers and still pose a threat as a pass rusher. I think Payne and Wilkins would be the first two DTs off the board followed by Vea. This guy looks like a nice guy to pair with a guy like Vea, Bryan wouldn't be relied on to stop the run. In a lot of his plays he's showing poor gap discipline. He has nice quickness but there is a lot to be desired in his play. I think he'd be very good next to a huge run stopper like Vea who would stop the run and take on multiple blockers freeing him up. I think he's a bottom of the first round talent right now. I don't mind him as a late first round pick or 2nd round pick but he will certainly need to get more strength and improve on his gap discipline.

Exactly. I'd rather not just blindly take a QB because "this is the year" to take one. People need to think for themselves and stop being sheep. If we have the opportunity to take a QB that fits and we actually think he will be great, then let's take him. But don't just take one just to take one. That's how we end up with a guy like EJ Manuel.

If he continues to improve and, he could be a cornerstone of our offensive line moving forward. On the game-winning run by Shady last week, Incognito got all the shine as he made an outstanding block but nobody said anything about what Dawkins did. He sealed the outside defender and pushed him right to the ground helping create that car-sized hole. He's quickly becoming one of my favorite players.

I made a thread about that possibility and got absolutely roasted haha. They could stay in college and we could miss out on a chance to grab one of the top QBs, who knows. If they do, I like the trade down idea.

I'd love it if we only had to give up that much but I honestly believe we will have to give up more to get to 3. Who knows at this point though. Looking at the picks, I like who you've selected but there is no way Harrison Phillips falls that far or Lazard. I like all of those players except I think we need a speed receiver.