OrtonHearsaWho
-
Posts
447 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Gallery
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by OrtonHearsaWho
-
-
7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:
That is just the thing - I would rather see it 100% publicly financed than a significantly even split - just for my game day experience.
Yes - you are financially supporting a billionaire, but if you want to see what a private financed stadium deal looks like - look at the Pats.
He privately financed the stadium and then moved ticket prices up and up as they won - until an average price is over $255 a ticket. He then went about renovating end zones and other areas - cutting away more cheap seats and turning it into a corporate game - it is no longer alive.
The higher the private financing done by the Pegula’s- the more they need to charge in either PSLs and seat costs. People are complaining about moving downtown and losing tailgating, but if your seats cost 3 times what you pay now and you have a PSL on top - that will kill tailgating far faster - as a whole different crowd will start attending games.
On the other hand - if based upon the surveys - people want to keep the tailgating and the feel - then they need to keep the cost of tickets down - maybe a 1.5 times increase instead - to do that - you need to spread that cost over a bigger percentage of people and have much more public financing.
The stadium will not pay for itself and keeping it in OP means that even more so it will not pay for itself. The question becomes where is the 1.4 billion coming from - is it coming from the public via taxes and other funding or is it coming from the public via higher seat prices, PSLs, and other fees?
You are paying either way - just different if it is spread out across the state and the area or more impactful on the users.
if public financing is tied to some guarantee about ticket pricing then I’m much, much more okay with it but not sure that would happen. -
Here is a really great resource for anything Bills stadium related and also anything stadium related -
https://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/nfl/buffalo-bills/
I was furious when the initial reports of the Pegulas wanting the stadium 100% funded by the public & would be furious if it ends up being anything worse than a 50/50 split. The community benefit (as described in tremendous detail throughout the above link) is always vastly overstated and the Pegulas would clearly benefit the most. They own the team so that's not unreasonable but to take advantage of the team's success to bend over the WNY taxpayers is obscene particularly if the price tag is the insanely outrageous $1.5 billion and very particularly if it is an open air stadium, and yes even MORE particularly if it has to include upgrades for anything related to the dumpster fire Sabres.
To the point of open air vs. dome and the whole idea of home field weather advantage...what on earth are you all talking about? We're good now but where was that advantage for almost 20 years? Also, do you really even want the chance of weather causing havoc or maybe even being a deciding factor in a home playoff game? I've seen the Colts game cited as an example but just look at the Ravens game last year. No blizzard but the wind definitely hamstrung the offense. I'd rather eliminate that altogether. Also discounting the Colts game as an aberration is a bit weird because I'm not sure if you've noticed but Buffalo can get some pretty spectacular winter weather. It could easily happen again.
I don't see the team moving but I also think that its naive to think it is 100% out of the realm of possibilities. Yeah the Pegulas kept the team in Buffalo but if you think they care or that the NFL cares about anything other than $$$, you're delusional - both have demonstrated that. Some have said that Austin wouldn't make sense...why not? It's a much bigger city that's growing exponentially and could easily support an NFL team.
-
1
-
-
6 minutes ago, section122 said:
I know it is all negotiation but it is irritating none the less. I know they aren't moving and I do understand the business side of this. Pegula's have put a lot of money into the complex so I do feel very confident that they will remain in OP/Buffalo.
I guess I'm just worn out. Toronto was held over our head for a long time. We had to hear how lucky we were to have a team, one that was poorly run and "cash to cap." We supported a less than good product for many years.
Like I said in my last post, I don't know why this bothers me so much. It may be timing with Covid, or maybe just irritation of footing the bill for a billionaire, or disappointment that Pegs is using the relocation threat, or it's Monday and I'm ornery lol.
I initially read ornery as...um...a different word and was about to say TMI
-
1
-
-
Just now, PromoTheRobot said:
Frankly I'm a bit shocked they are quoting $1.1B for a clone of what we have now. They built! Jerry-World for the same price in 2009! They built US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis in 2016 for the same price!! Is our quote based on today's post-pandemic, material-shortage prices? Kickbacks and payoffs?
Right. If that's the price tag, then it had better look like the Vikings pad...that thing is amazing (sorry birds).
-
2
-
-
1 minute ago, SCBills said:
I'm very glad you're not in charge of anything relating to this because every stadium typically receives 40-70% public financing.
@blitzboy54 specifically said sales tax. Sales taxes are pretty much always regressive taxes.
-
6 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:
I don't think anyone here has the answers, do they?
at this point it is "all" speculation.
We're definitely doing a lot of speculating but I really don't think an outdoor WNY super bowl is a great idea.
-
1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:
no doubt it would be used for events and even host a superbowl or two?
Only if they build a dome & even then that's not terribly likely.
-
2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
It would help if it were a dome.
Honestly even without the possibility of concerts or other events it should be a dome. The whole cold weather advantage thing is a total canard.
-
1
-
-
6 minutes ago, SCBills said:
I get that, but the Buffalo Bills are also WNY's identity. The hope, happiness, sense of community that they provide isn't something you can quantifiably measure, but you'll sure notice it if you ever lose it.
Regarding the economic status of the community, a state/local subsidy of a stadium is not going to change anything one way or the other.
People have every right to be frustrated by how the extremely wealthy in this country are able to operate, but to have this as a hill to die on is simply cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Fundamentally I think you & I probably agree on quite a bit and I do agree that a lot of the WNY identity is the Bills. I only hope that the Pegulas do not exploit that for their benefit. If they do ultimately come out & ask for a 100% funded stadium then go ahead and move the team...we can find a new identity without them.
-
1
-
-
2 minutes ago, SCBills said:
I don't care if their motives were 100% sinister. Fact remains, we have our team in WNY because of them.
Y'all pay taxes everyday that help line the pockets of all sorts of wealthy politicians and corporate execs. The only difference with the Pegula's is that this isn't "out of sight, out of mind".
The only naivety I see here is people think it makes a bit of difference to you if the Pegula's get a large handout to build a stadium. It just comes off as resentment of the rich.
Their ask for 100% financing is ridiculous, but it's a negotiation. The only issue I have is with them taking a veiled shot across the bow that other cities (Austin) would pay... dirty, but expected.
I hate that our taxes subsidize socialism for the wealthy and that's pretty much exactly my point. Buffalo is one of the poorest communities in the country so a freaking stadium is pretty low on my list of priorities for the area.
-
2
-
-
5 minutes ago, SCBills said:
I'm annoyed about any veiled threat to move the team, even though it seems clear as day that it is simply a leverage play, but for the life of me I do not understand why so many of you are upset about them asking for public financing.
We get it... he's rich... We wouldn't have a team in Buffalo if Terry & Kim weren't loaded.
It's a negotiation, but y'all are going to have to fund, at least, some of the stadium... I mean, you do know that, correct?
I don't live in Buffalo but I would gladly have some of my taxes go to a stadium, even if our owner was Scrooge McDuck. Like it or not, y'all pay taxes that enrich a lot of wealthy people that don't provide a football team to WNY. Who cares if you help line the pockets of someone who does.
This anti-rich sentiment is tiring.
If it was more profitable - or is more profitable sometime in the future - for the Pegulas to move the team out of Buffalo, they would have done it. To view their purchase of the team as altruistic is horribly naive. Buying an NFL franchise is q very sound investment and once the new TV deal is made, the owners will be printing money.
-
1
-
-
I'm going to wait a while to see how this develops before I potentially go absolutely nuclear on the Pegulas. However to all of those vilifying Jerry Jones (and don't get me wrong, he sucks a LOT), I will remind you how much of his own money he paid for his new stadium.
-
2
-
-
I think a new stadium is due. I'm fine with it being in OP and I generally would prefer a dome over an open air stadium, especially one with those stupid canopies. I get the appeal of the elements but if there's even a chance that the sometimes VERY bad WNY weather could have a serious impact on the game then I say go with a dome. Imagine if a playoff game ends up having weather like the Colts blizzard game...that would suck (in my opinion). A retractable roof would be cool but also a waste of money considering how many times the roof would actually be open.
One thing that I want to address is the cost of the stadium and how it would be paid for. It's unlikely but I really hope that Erie county and NYS don't don't write blank checks for the stadium regardless of the cost.
The new TV deal works out to 300+ million per team per year and the Pegulas can pretty much count on fans filling the stadium because that's what Bills fans do so they won't exactly be strapped for cash. Additionally, NYS is going to be strapped for cash post-COVID, so even without the cost of a new stadium, there would likely be cuts, increased taxes or more likely a combination of the two. A new stadium would definitely get public funding and tax subsidies but if this will end up substantially costing the community in other areas then I'm honestly against it and I'm sure I'm in the minority there. WNY always gets the short end of the stick so I'm afraid that any budget cuts will disproportionally affect the area.
TLDR: If Terry and Kim want a shiny new stadium then that's fine but they need to pay a big chuck of the $$$.
-
1
-
-
5 hours ago, Little Dog said:
The only hammer and sickle is take the the shot or lose your job
That's pretty much the exact opposite of communism, but okay.
15 minutes ago, ChasBB said:Yeah, he's just a selfish punk - playing on a broken leg down the final stretch of the season and laying it all out for his teammates - how incredibly selfish of him.
There's this thing called The Bill of Rights - maybe some of you need to re-read it.
Can you clarify which part of the Bill of Rights applies here?
-
2
-
2
-
-
I might get roasted for this, but I hope the Bills trade this moron tonight.
-
1
-
-
12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:
If anyone is looking for some laughs, Beasley getting absolutely roasted in the thread on /r/NFL
We brought in Sanders. Just swap him in.
Speaking of which...
Does anyone believe he did that totally naturally? Or did he, like every other NFL player, have the team Dr shoot some chemical into his body which he has no clue what it contains, in order to numb the pain?
Little punk hypocrite.
I think they shot it into his head.
3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:How have McD and/or Beane not told him to shut the heck up yet?
-
His flu related tweet is really the icing on the cake & shows what a moron he is. He's embarrassing himself & the organization. Good lord do I hope that Josh doesn't take any advice from him.
-
4
-
-
8 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:
This guy let his team and his career down by not playing because his mother is a nurse? That makes no sense. Rousseau opted out for the same reason Star did...
Star has a family and might have a heart condition so it seems like he kept his health and his family's health in mind when making the decision. Rousseau decided to step away to help out his family, particularly his mother who was really struggling during the pandemic. If that doesn't make sense to you then feel free to read any of the numerous articles that go into detail about his decision. If you did read about Gregory's decision then I'm not really sure what else to tell you.
The only similarity that I see between those two scenarios is that they put concerns of health and family above football and I don't really see why that would be something to be critical about in the least.
-
1
-
-
11 hours ago, SCBills said:
I think it’s clearly the job of Zack Moss to lose.
-He’s an ELITE pass pro back.
-Catches the ball well out of the backfield.
-Strong runner, decisive and fits our scheme.
That being said, I think Singletary vs Breida could be a fantastic fight for the #2 spot. From all accounts Singletary is working out like crazy and focusing on speed/burst. I’m not sure how much of that can be generated beyond genetics, but if he can just get a little more speed/burst, it could make all the difference for him.
For as much as I've supported Motor in a bunch of threads, I think you're 100% correct. We didn't see a ton of him but he seems to do a bunch of things very well. Not going to get 200 yards in a game but we don't need that. Call me overly optimistic but I see a lot of Fred Jackson qualities in Moss...just need to get him a signature end zone celebration 😎
-
11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:
I came of age watching both Kelly and Marino sling it around season after season, and while I certainly don’t begrudge you your opinion of wanting Marino in a “do-over”, I do think it’s fair game to point out that Marino was not exactly playing on the 2020 Jets—his Dolphins teams were primarily coached by one of the best ever in Shula (in fact the best by win total, who also coached the only undefeated SB winner). My point is, if the winningest coach ever could not even with the “best pure passer” ever as many like to call Marino, ever get by Kelly in the playoffs or even boast a better head to head record, what exactly would he bring to Buffalo so they win a SB with QB’s reversed?
That's a fair point but those Bills teams that Marino lost to were also hardly the 2020 Jets...they were awfully stacked on both sides of the ball.
For me the pretty easy answer is Marino and that is absolutely no knock on Kelly because he was obviously an all time great player. There are almost too many factors to consider to really make an accurate ranking of Marino, Kelly and others but just from a arm talent standpoint Marino has few if any peers over the history of the league.
-
1
-
-
8 hours ago, Nelius said:
God I love the offseason. One random photo and he's either overweight and/or on roids. It will be hilarious if the photo is just perspective and it turns out he actually lost weight.
I also love the armchair fitness gurus that just think more muscle has to equal slower. I tend to trust the training methods of a freaking professional athlete.
-
1
-
1
-
-
52 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
Is Sherlock your burner account?
That's typical. The General Managers on TBD typically think that various players suck and can be traded for 2nd round picks.
At the same time, we believe we can acquire talented players off other rosters for a 5th or 6th rounder.
Exactly. Regardless of what we all think about him I think that the takeaway from what we've heard about his offseason is that he's working his tail off and trying to get better. Whether it translates on the field is yet to be seen but I would hope that we can all appreciate his commitment!
-
2
-
2
-
-
8 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:
Yeah. Singletary did pretty well in what limited opportunity he had. Was the best RB on the roster all year but people always find something to complain about. Just look at this thread.
He also looked quite good in 2019 when most here thought he was underutilized. Now he simultaneously sucks but yet is also valuable enough to trade for draft capital. Weird!
-
1
-
-
52 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:
True. And that one time he dropped the pass. I mean..
I'm stunned that so many think that was a game changing play. Did it suck? Sure. Would that have changed the end result? Hell no.
Actually scrap that, I'm not stunned because its just what we do here but thank god the organization isn't the same way anymore. How many years did we suffer through front office morons thinking that investing draft capital in the RB position was a good way to go?
-
1
-
EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Not arguing here just curious because I'm from Rochester so don't see stuff like that...what have they put money into that failed?