UConn James

Franklin actually was instrumental in the physical building of many of those frontier forts out of logged timber, and went on scouting missions (one where he describes how the Native Americans had constructed a smokeless campfire from charcoal off burned logs to keep themselves warm at night... and that the natives decided not to attack vs. so many men at the fort). Let me remind you that the colonists did not show attacking natives (or non-attacking natives for that matter...) much mercy. Nor pirates, who were pretty much hanged on the spot.

I highly doubt Claire is dead... yet. Just b/c she's in the cabin and was brought there by a ghost(?) of her/Jack's father doesn't mean anything in itself. Jack following his father led him to the caves and fresh water. Young Ben following his mother led him to Richard. We also have Hurley following Dave (was this a ghost or mental projection?), Eko following Yemi (was the smoke monster --- was this brought upon by Ben?), among other instances of apparitions of people who shouldn't have been where they were (Walt twice, notably). We have yet to learn the circumstance of why Kate has Aaron, but even that is not necessarily reason to believe that Claire has died.

BURN HIM!!!!

Point the First... Franklin was considered a traitor/rebel by the British, and very well that he would have been hanged if caught during the Revolution, or at minimum that he would've been kept in jail at least until the end of the conflict. He accepted this b/c he was a practical man, if you've ever read his autobiography. But he also didn't have to fear being hanged by the British after the war when he was a diplomat b/c that was rationally accepted --- the war was over. The GWOT won't be over until all who want to attack the US are dead or in jail for life, b/c as has been made abundantly clear, they will fight 'til the death. It just does not follow that he'd support giving foreign terrorists the rights of citizens when they and their ilk blew up sh-- in the country he helped found. Liberty and freedom go only so far when bombs are going off and your people's heads are being cut off. In fact, he'd probably want the Gitmo inmates executed after a summary of the facts, just as the colonial govt hanged John Andre in the Benedict Arnold matter, even tho the colonists liked Andre and would rather have exchanged him for Arnold. They didn't give Andre the opportunity to say that his 5-year-old daughter had drawn up the maps that were found in his boots --- they said, 'You were found at such-and-such a place with such-and-such in your possession. You're hereby sentenced to the gallows as a spy. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.' Yet, this admin can't do things as simply as that b/c it's not 'germane' in the world's view in this age of rehabilitation and wrist-slap motherment. Point the Second... Where did I state that the US beams with pride over Japanese-American internment? FDR et al knew it was morally wrong, yet they ordered it done b/c they could not take the risk. IIRC, one terrorist tribunal was started last fall. Perhaps the govt wants to test the legitimacy/conduct of them before they go balls to the wall on 300+ cases. Phil Specter was arrested in early 2003; he had a mistrial last Sept. Four years. For a citizen of this country. Not in a war zone (then again, it's LA... ) or multinational conflicts, treaties or laws to sort through to see what applies and coming upon an absence of laws, wtf could be done to chart some territory. And then there's the gem that's the last quoted paragraph, which I think you had help on from molson. How the does having police officers in this country relate in any shape or form to transnational terrorists captured in conflicts in other nations? And furthermore, who the put it in your brain that said terrorists have, or should have, the same rights as a US citizen in regard to "innocent until proven guilty"? They don't!!!! That's a main reason of the holdup. B/c as Tom writes above, there isn't a solid legal definition for what they are. They're essentially in limbo until things are figured out.

In terms of their survival vis-a-vis their goals, yes. In terms of their tactics, no. It's a smart, committed* enemy that uses our systems and ideological dissension present in the machinations of our society against itself. We're busy discussing what color jumpsuits Gitmo inmates should wear. We're so concerned with propriety and treating our enemies to a U.S. citizen's rights of 'Better to let a guilty man free'. We're so pent up in this question of America's standing in the world and what everyone thinks of us.... while they conduct suicide bombings and beheadings. If we let Gitmo prisoners go free to conduct spectacular attacks in Iraq/Afghanistan that make the pillow-biters in this country want to grasp retreat from the jaws of victory, I'll tell you what America's standing in the world will be.

Yeah. So far, Jack and that contingent of the Lostaways do not know about Widmore's army. The phones to this point have showed/encouraged them how to meet up with the freighter people, not as a means to avoid them. This may change when Daniel or the other girl fills in, b/c I doubt they want to be on the island when the poop hits the air conditioning of what they know or suspect is coming.

Precisely my point. People (nay, citizens, many) who had done nothing wrong besides being born to the wrong nationality parents were put into camps w/o due process for several years b/c the govt at the time could not afford to risk that they wouldn't. By all accounts, they didn't like that they had to take this action, but it was something they had to do. By contrast, our govt today has captured people (non-citizens, most) who have done something wrong --- to wit, actively engaging our forces in combat or providing substantial material aid --- and decided that they couldn't risk these people getting out and rejoining their cause, to which they have dedicated suicidal-attack intentions. I'm not trying to say they're the same thing. I'm saying if FDR found it necessary to detain innocents w/o due process (even tho he morally thought that it shouldn't be done but practically it had to be done), why do the majority of pillow-biters in this country not understand a necessity to detain combatants w/o due process? Hammer --> Head of the nail.

To me, that doesn't satisfy the mindset that led to them willingly kamakazi'ing themselves among other notorious stories. A country doesn't just draft someone and immediately have a zombie drone. It was ingrained into every part of the culture similar to the religious texts/teachings of segments of the Islamic world to a fervent or tacit degree.

On the subject of the thread, tho, they've also rendered to countries where the accused is exonerated of terrorism and then in short order, conducts a terrorist suicide bombing. Probably not what they wanted, but you can't control what other countries do.

Prol'ly the reason for the much-used sarcastic "Oh... wait" right after.

Why not? Because you say it isn't? Not perfectly comparable, but then again, what situation is when we're going slightly off the map of charted territory? Both involve the detention of people our govt perceived to be an enemy. In WW2, that tho nothing had been done, the possibility existed; now, that most of the Gitmo detainees were captured actively fighting our forces. As I've said before, I would support charges in a military court. I believe the administration does as well, but they've been been slow to act (govt? slow to act? No!) precisely b/c they're charting new ground. So far they have been able to skirt this by capturing and holding them off the mainland. But with the trial from last fall, seems like charges will trickle in. Not exactly how one'd want it done, but then again, you and I aren't party to the nitty-gritty. Frig... Phil Spector was held for like 4 years before he went to trial, no? But suppose they are all tried and justice is meted. Where do you put them when you advocate shutting down Gitmo?

Which was uberweird, given that Faraday's experiment suggested that time moved slower on the island. So, you'd think that the doctor's body wouldn't arrive until quite awhile after he was killed in off-island time. Instead, it showed up before it happened. This is now suggestive that the island's time is not merely lagging as we first thought --- it's wildly differential from off-island time. Could be a day ahead at one moment and 30 minutes behind at another. ... And then, what's to stop it from being 30 years differential that would allow Richard et al to travel into the flashbacks or the flashforwards?

What of the Japanese-American internment camps during WW2? Anyone going to try to argue that they were a major reason for Pearl Harbor? Oh... wait. Or that the Japanese attacked us any more viciously than they would have otherwise? The potential of having 'sleeper cells' free on US soil was a risk that FDR just couldn't take. Not to make a direct comparison: the J-A hadn't been captured in an act of combating U.S. forces. There is a sizable contingent in Islam that annually beat themselves bloody for not being there in 700 A.D. when one or other of their leaders were killed. Whatever perception was formed by U.S. actions promoting terrorist recruitment... well, I'd say the damage is done. This stuff of bending over backwards for POWs with the goal of eventually releasing them was intended for rational people --- that they would see the cause of their nation's military is over and stop fighting (I'd say this is still applicable in conventional state-state conflict). Victory in the GWOT will be defined by the absence of people willing to do anything and everything and fight to the last suicidal twitch in their fervency. You ever let the inmates in Gitmo out of our custody, you have GWOT+1. (edited)

First, I'll just point out the intended similarities b/w Locke's story and Ben's S2 flashback. Both mothers encountered a car when they went into very early pregnancy and the baby 'miraculously' survived (with some help from either DI or the Others)... Ben's mother's name was Emily... Perhaps the island just got the wrong man in a case of mistaken identity? When Richard showed up at the orphanage and asked young John to pick his belongings, I sensed an homage to the movie about the Dhali Lama (forget... was it "Seven Years in Tibet"?) and how he is identified by selecting physical objects that belonged to the previous incarnation of the DL. Also interesting that teen John was gifted in science and recruited by Mittelos but disavowed it b/c it made him unpopular... and became the so-called man of faith after the black dude suggested he do the walkabout for spiritual guidance. Just a way of hedging bets. But wait. These people are representing different sides of DI/Others. One is advocating science, the other faith, and it's not the way you might've guessed. DI pushing faith; Others pushing science. What's going on here? Speaking of Richard, it seems like his appearance to young Ben may not have been an indication that he doesn't age, just that he was time-traveling at that first contact, too. Recruiting does seem to be Richard's main job. What's the mechanical device under the military guy's arm? Yes, is Christian alive or dead is a question that's now on the table. We've seen him, had references to him in Jack's flashforwards.... Moving the island isn't a phenomenon that's new to discussion --- and this is going back to the snow globe from the comic book. Many people have argued that the island has been in various places before and moved around. Some really funny moments from Ben tonight. "Destiny is a fickle... B word!" and him staring at Hurley's candy bar for like 10 seconds of silence and guilting him into splitting it both had me . Something that's been lacking since Charlie's death.

My brother escorted a goodly number to Gitmo in the year after 9/11 with his Raven team. Remember those pictures of the detainees gagged and bound? That wasn't done for sh--s and giggles. It's like that kid in Rhode Island a few years back who shot the detective in the interrogation room. Then they took him to court and he beat some guards. Then they took him to court in heavy chains and he spit on everything. Then they took him to court in a Hannibal Lecter mask. Now, after his initial arrest, people made a big to-do about his black eye that the usual suspects shouted was police brutality. Then the POS started all the other stuff and they shut up quickly. Guy didn't care what happened to him and that's one of the most dangerous people to be around.

You know, Walt Whitman wrote some great lines of free verse about the nature of America. Among them, in "Song of Myself": "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes." I think he's qualified to speak, having been a nurse for the Union and supporting the war b/w the states even tho he detested war. He went along with Sherman's 'March to the Sea' and its brutality b/c it broke the will of the South. And don't suppose that his words were simplistic and contemporary --- if you can say nothing else about him, Whitman was deep and precise, able to take a step back and see the larger scope and the absurdities, the everyday hypocrisies in himself and his country that just were and, same today, just are. It's nice for the textbooks to say that you have a set standard, a universal code of conduct, whatever, that you always follow to the T, but back in the real world, that isn't always possible nor is it always preferable in order to achieve what needs to be achieved to secure safety. Please always respect a president's job of daily having to decide courses of action among utter confusion and in direct conflict with your principles. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown." Sometimes things that don't seem right either given the rules or in gut feeling have to be done b/c they have to be done. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand much.

If feasible and conducted before a military court as enemy combatants, I would support due process and proper ajudication. If they're there wrongly, it should be rectified. Problem is that there are plenty of vocal people who want them charged in civilian courts with virtually the same rights as citizens. The Moussaoui trial is not something we need to be replicating. The question becomes, if not at Gitmo, where does all this happen? Where will the trials be held? Where will convicted terrorists be held (I patently refuse to support anything with them setting foot in mainland US)? For how long? Will the names of those places not also become terrorist recruiting tools? I question that it's necessarily such a big 'recruiting tool.' People who become terrorists will find some excuse or other to validate their jihad, and what of it that this is one? Are we to blow up the Statue of Liberty b/c the concept of liberty and religious/political freedom is the No. 1 recruiting tool? 'Good' and 'Bad' are words. At what point do we need to stop apologizing for taking necessary steps to protect ourselves?

And by "purse," you mean one of these things. I've heard she's got enough room left in there for a bottle of Purell, a pack of chewing gum and a cigarette lighter. HFB, Rutgers-boy.

Is that in the compressed state? As for Stern, he pissed off my uncle (a 100% mental disability Vietnam vet) at a station party back when HS was at WCCC in Hartford. Held him out of a ~10-story window, and to this day, he laments that he didn't let go.

Link. Beautiful. I don't think this is the first time, either. People shout to "Close Gitmo!!" and indeed this is something all of the candidates have pledged to do. But meanwhile, back in reality, this is what happens when these people get out or are handed off to other countries' jurisdiction. Those people are there for a reason, and I sleep a little better knowing they're surrounded by chain-link, military guards and 90 miles of shark-infested waters. I can only imagine that somewhere, almost two years gone, BiB is doing this . (Then again, this isn't such a surprise for a country that can't seem to learn to keep Level-3 diddlers off the streets. The judges and lawyers like the repeat business; it makes them seem important and keeps them in a $200K job.)

How does everyone think this might compare in terms of damage to the league vs. the NBA ref who was found betting on games (don't remember if they were games that he had officiated)? That seemed to be big league-busting news at the break, but it died down in fairly short order. I, too, don't expect that anything of substance/consequence will be revealed b/c TPTB won't allow it. Same reason Goodell destroyed all of the Spygate materials. Walsh doesn't have much to gain (maybe a book deal?) and a lot to lose.

At least you're in such a market so it shouldn't be that rocky of a time getting something else, and probably in an upwards direction from an outfit like that.

I bet you excitedly chose the matches, and were really let down that they didn't provide you a stone wheel.

Injection-molded plastic from recycled soda/pop bottles. These are one of the few things where recycling is pretty efficient and cost-effective. I wear them a lot, for sheer comfort. When my feet hurt from wearing boots or sneakers, I put a pair of knockoff Crocs (~$4) on and the pain is gone. They're great around the house instead of conventional slippers that get dirty fast. I'm just happy that they've branched out to non-fruity colors. Otherwise, I dress very normally. Some people hate on my choice of footwear --- if so, screw you b/c I don't really give a rat's ass what you think. Should I rag on your $120 sweatshop Nikes? Your XXXXL Fubu sweatshirt that looks like you're wearing a tent? I'm not going to change to please somebody else.

[PastaJoe stops eating his ham sammich. PastaJoe's face turns to a ".... Yes.... ?" says PastaJoe. PastaJoe grins and returns to eating his ham sammich. PastaJoe rocks out to "Don't Stop Thinkin' 'Bout Tomorrow]