UConn James

Maybe he assumed that since Indy got "eternal life" in the last movie....

I don't think this unseats Fowler, but one can only hope this and the other UDFA from Arkansas leads to the welcome departure of Duke Preston as a backup anything.

Or that the Paytoilets* use multiple frequencies --- I think it's usually 4 or more --- when other teams use 2.

From all I've read, she has no recollection of her capture or what transpired. She had multiple broken bones and bruising. She was taken to the hospital by Iraqi army along with the bodies of the rest of her unit, and the Iraqis and more govt agents were waiting around, probably not w/o a purpose. What they planned on doing with her before they likely got wind the Americans would be coming is anybody's guess. From her Wikipedia entry (I know, I know....): She may have been hesitant to include it, as many victims of sexual assault understandably don't want all and sundry to know such details or be known solely as such, but the evidence of it was certainly there.

I actually wouldn't be surprised by that. Either directly, or more likely, indirectly thru the threat that whatever the admin does, will be reversed by said bleeding hearts who don't think anyone should ever be in jail for very long no matter what they've done. Bush, and I'd wager most Americans, believes that the detainees should never breathe free air again, for what those who have the information on details of capture know they did... information which is still militarily/national security sensitive so it's reasonable to me that they do not want to disseminate it. So, the admin is forced to make everything doing with adjudicating absolutely watertight and vetted to be so, and to try one at the beginning as they started last fall. I guess this needs to be explained to you for the 34th time in this thread (who knows... maybe it might sink in if enough people say it) that this takes a crapload of time, to make sure that whatever convictions they get will stick and not be thrown out on stupid technicalities, or they just don't do anything at all and hold the detainees in stasis... which isn't the worst thing in the world, when you see what's happened to captives thru the ages of man the fact that the detainees weren't summarily executed and quietly buried in the sand shows pretty high restraint and a nod to the GC, in place of its application due to legal/definitive qualifiers. Your reasoning for all of this is so American soldiers aren't treated the same way.... As Wacka wrote (and I don't agree with him often, nor on this point to the extent he takes it that it entitles us to do anything we want) the enemy that we are discussing has killed every American soldier they have managed to capture. Hell, they have killed every American, soldier or civilian, that they've captured (On edit: we rescued Jessica Lynch after she was beaten and raped; who knows what special plans they had for her). And these have not even been quick, painless deaths --- they involve grotesque torture, disembowelment and dismemberment. I honestly don't get why you'd want to raise this point. It's really not good for your case. I'm not sure whether the detainees have been allowed to contact their families in letters. Nonetheless, the GC's wording is such that it allows one letter to inform they've been captured and whatever else they want to write to their family. If the argument is that they can't write back and forth, that is not what the GC stipulates. The Red Cross's 'level of contact' access to some detainees. Why the admin would want to do that isn't hard to understand, even for mouth-breathers. IIRC, people working/posing as humanitarian workers and lawyers have been caught trying to pass information and deliver coded messages from the detainees. There's a reason why Gitmo is a special degree even among maximum-security facilities. It's also for the safety of those individuals. I'll make this a little easier for your level... remember that scene in "Silence of the Lambs"? Finally, you'd have to wonder at the conduct of such hearings and trials. I'm not arguing their eventual necessity once the details of how exactly to proceed are established, the point that we can say we did the best as humanly possible in the delivering of justice, or that what I'm thinking will happen will indeed happen. But if this is anything like the Moussaoui trial circus, it will involve 700 cases where the detainee/defendant incessantly shouts that he does not recognize the authority of the court/tribunal/what-have-you, that he wasn't where the military captured him, calls upon Allah to help him dismember all involved in said proceeding, that his name isn't Mustafah Al-Sayid el Basheer and that despite all physical evidence, witness testimony, detainee's own statements, they've got the wrong man, sitting and loudly chant verses from the Koran, et cetera, et cetera. Again, I'm not going to dispute the necessity, but will such a circus make us feel any better or make any other country predisposed to disliking the US think that we gave someone a fair trial rather than a farce (tho it's of the defendant's own making)? And where? A statement you've made several times in this thread... "in a neutral country." I call bullsh--. What country is neutral? What country where all of the citizens can truly say "I have no opinion on either the US or AQ/affiliated groups." What country where the process could be absolutely secure from its high-value target?

A) I never said word one about torture/waterboarding. That was not the point of discussion in this thread as it has been covered in many others. The discussion has been about detention. Admittedly, the depth of my knowledge on this part is what I hear in the background on the TeeVee or radio as I'm doing the dishes. I don't know if it's been confirmed that they used it at Gitmo; I've only definitively heard Afghanistan with KSM and Iraq. I am pretty certain that by congressional law, the practice has been stopped for a while now. Journos are let in sporadically, but then again, I wouldn't blame the admin from blocking access to an uber-maximum-security prison on the grounds of the nature of the people incarcerated there and what such a disturbance causes. Also, letting in people (yes, journos are regular people, no special qualification) to poke and prod the detainees like they're zoo animals would be against the GC's humiliation standard, as you so want the admin to follow. Per Tom's thread above, you have have a real misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Geneva Convention actually entails beyond the surface level that's discussed on the news by talking heads as if it's the breadth and depth of the terms of the agreement. And the fact that you persist in saying 'They could get it all done, but don't want to' despite people in the know having to explain to you over and over that it just isn't so... it begs the question if you come here for educational discussion or your and molson's cacophony of BushBad. "Prove they aren't being mistreated" is like proving that California won't de-continentilize and drift into the ocean after a massive earthquake. It's pretty hard to prove a negative assertion. If the admin does show what proof they can, people like yourself will no doubt say it's not enough, or 'They probably beat him right after they took that photo' or upwards of thousand other theories. B) It wasn't my intent to say Spector's treatment = Gitmo. Of course it wasn't; it was baby steps thru the process; however, his world was in limbo during those 4 years from soup to nuts, and that was in the best of circumstances, not where fundamental definitions are still being worked out b/c trans-national, non-state-supported terrorism is relatively uncharted legal territory. Probably shouldn't have used the comparison to make the very broad point that justice takes time... people here have a tough time with anything other than apples-to-apples (and even then, they'll pinprick it to McIntosh, Cortland or Washington Red! ).

B/c the Geneva Convention does not apply to non-state-sanctioned insurgents. Also, if they are to be treated as POWs under the GC, then there's no need for trials. They'd be held until someone signs a treaty and the end of fighting.... Only, that doesn't seem bloody likely to happen, now does it? This is a wholly different kind of war against a different kind of enemy. How many times has that been explained by Tom, BiB, et al in the last 7 years? You just don't get it, do you? In WWII, you may not have realized it, but tens of thousands of German POWs were held in-country and kept in camps for the duration of the war --- no trials, no habeus corpus, just, as the GC required, meals, housing, etc. in a climate similar to where they were captured (that's right, if a POW was captured in Siberia, the GC says you must hold him in approximately such conditions). There was a camp in central CT, actually. And after the war, many of them stayed or immigrated back to the US b/c, they said, 'We were treated better as prisoners over here than our own people treated us as soldiers.' But those were different times and a different enemy. Why not treat them as American citizens? Gee... maybe b/c they are not American citizens. Seriously, WTF?!! Doubt they would want to be treated like a citizen of the Great Satan. So, a scared kitty to you is defined as we who want to protect ourselves from people who've taken vows to inflict jihad by suicide if necessary, on America? I especially love the 'You want to suspend everyone's civil liberties' charge. Great, that. No leap over a wide chasm there.... . I don't mind suspending the liberty of people who've taken up arms against our military in the course of battle, same as I don't mind restricting gun rights to those convicted of felonies, or to ban child rapists from living within x-distance from schools. I don't think the slope is nearly as slippery as you love to suggest. There are many salient reasons why holding them here poses a threat. It could encourage attacks on the homeland, possibility of prison break, which would put them right where they want to be w/o even needing a passport. It's a much smaller world even than it was in WW2. You're entitled to your 'everyone failed' theory; I'd say it's right... and I'd also say why are you so sure things like it won't happen again? My point about Specter was that the administration of justice can sometimes take quite a while, even under the best of circumstances. Your righteous indignation that 'nothing's happened yet! Why is it taking so long! Are we there yet?!' is classic Americanism. It's pretty easy to be a critic about something you understand very little of the minutia of and shoot spitballs from the lib apologist peanut gallery.

Did you read the first part of my post #204 in this thread? Been waiting for someone to comment. I think the recruitment side of things might have gotten messed up b/w the two. Plenty of similarities in their birth stories that Ben might have been the classic 'wrong man.' I don't know if Ben is depressed, as such. After having unsuccessfully tried to kill off his competition for leadership (which he said he should have known would happen b/c the island wouldn't let Locke die --- that is to say, in Desmond-flashback-ese "the universe was course correcting"/preventing --- b/c his role isn't done) we saw the transition of power this week. I don't know. Ben, despite his selfishness and desire to save his own ass and get done what he wants done thru whatever means necessary (usually by getting other people to do your dirty work and killing for you)... wants what's best for the island.

I could see something like that for Widmore given what we've seen of him and a connection to the Black Rock and his conversation with Ben. He may be in the same boat as Michael --- he left the island somehow, and now he can't die and is trying to find it again. Whether it's to try to take advantage of it commercially ('Eternal Life! Yours for $50M!!') or if it's a solo thing like Michael that he's tired of life and wants to die (in his chat with Desmond, you just get the sense that he's been to the top, made a fortune that hasn't made him happy, knows so much, but it's all old hat to him now and he just wants it over... who knows. Like I wrote the other week, the game b/w he and Ben is kind of a Reverse Highlander? There's no reason to make such a connection for Richard; we know of no tie b/w him and the Black Rock, which is a little late in the game for his character, but that may be purposeful. Last week Kate simply said the phone conversation was something that Sawyer wouldn't want her to share. I got the read that she is doing something for Sawyer's daughter (I forget her name but it was in the ep where he's in prison and puts all the reward money in her name) with the woman he conned. Remember that Kate also met her before 815. Vouchsafe that Sawyer is still on the island. Jack got jealous b/c... well... he's Jack, and he doesn't have a big project to fix. If he doesn't have a problem, he makes one for himself.

Well, she did leave Aaron with Charlie for stretches --- either willingly or the times Charlie had those dreams. And there was the time Rousseau took him. That's just off the top of my head, but I think that's it. And still... she was set to give Aaron up for adoption to "a couple in Los Angeles" about 4 months ago in island-time, then was ready to give him to the Others (admittedly, she was in a hazy state) when Ethan took her. I don't think they'll leave the Christian explanation dangling over to next season. But it could just be something they don't have to explain --- CS was on the plane in a coffin, it crashed on the island and was empty when Jack opened it (did the island's curative powers bring him back?), he's been seen walking around before --- and now it just is.

Recycling... Is Garbage. Bit of a long read, but this article makes a good case that there are plenty of people more interested in a boondoggle with land deals or 'action groups' that take donations and moneylaunder it around or those who get off on making people apologize for living and feel bad about themselves than doing things that are good for the environment. Recycling some items is a net-loss enterprise at this point, such as for gloss paper, plastics, etc. But for other items, it's pretty easy and worthwhile, such as plain newsprint; metals that can be melted and reformed (scrap metal is bigtime right now eg brass, copper, aluminum); wood that can be chopped up for OSB, etc.

HFB!

He said 57. Puerto Rico and Guam (they actually have party delegates), American Samoa, Wake Island, US Virgin Islands are territories or possessions of the United States.... and then there's Afghanistan, and Iraq, whose lands we could have bought 4 times over with all the $ we've pumped in there. Tell Betsy Ross to get busy! I do concede in judgment tho, that with the candidates' schedules, the sleep deprivation has got to be mind-numbing if not carefully monitored. I've been on 2-3 hours of sleep per night for ~ 2 weeks before due to really loud tinnitus from an ear infection and by the end, my mind was ing frazzled.

I doubt they could seat a jury in NYC that would convict unanimously. And then, I wouldn't be surprised if he leaked this story to the papers so he can inspire his poverty-strapped minion lemmings to each send in their $5 contributions along with any corporate lucre he can gorge. The !@#$ greed of these bottom-feeders is disgusting. At least I now know to boycott Pepsi-Co and Anheuser-Busch. Then again, I don't drink either of their swill anyway.

Link. They mention the case, but failed to mention that Rev. Al also still owes a police officer $150K for libel in his Brawley hoax.

Franklin actually was instrumental in the physical building of many of those frontier forts out of logged timber, and went on scouting missions (one where he describes how the Native Americans had constructed a smokeless campfire from charcoal off burned logs to keep themselves warm at night... and that the natives decided not to attack vs. so many men at the fort). Let me remind you that the colonists did not show attacking natives (or non-attacking natives for that matter...) much mercy. Nor pirates, who were pretty much hanged on the spot.

I highly doubt Claire is dead... yet. Just b/c she's in the cabin and was brought there by a ghost(?) of her/Jack's father doesn't mean anything in itself. Jack following his father led him to the caves and fresh water. Young Ben following his mother led him to Richard. We also have Hurley following Dave (was this a ghost or mental projection?), Eko following Yemi (was the smoke monster --- was this brought upon by Ben?), among other instances of apparitions of people who shouldn't have been where they were (Walt twice, notably). We have yet to learn the circumstance of why Kate has Aaron, but even that is not necessarily reason to believe that Claire has died.

BURN HIM!!!!

Point the First... Franklin was considered a traitor/rebel by the British, and very well that he would have been hanged if caught during the Revolution, or at minimum that he would've been kept in jail at least until the end of the conflict. He accepted this b/c he was a practical man, if you've ever read his autobiography. But he also didn't have to fear being hanged by the British after the war when he was a diplomat b/c that was rationally accepted --- the war was over. The GWOT won't be over until all who want to attack the US are dead or in jail for life, b/c as has been made abundantly clear, they will fight 'til the death. It just does not follow that he'd support giving foreign terrorists the rights of citizens when they and their ilk blew up sh-- in the country he helped found. Liberty and freedom go only so far when bombs are going off and your people's heads are being cut off. In fact, he'd probably want the Gitmo inmates executed after a summary of the facts, just as the colonial govt hanged John Andre in the Benedict Arnold matter, even tho the colonists liked Andre and would rather have exchanged him for Arnold. They didn't give Andre the opportunity to say that his 5-year-old daughter had drawn up the maps that were found in his boots --- they said, 'You were found at such-and-such a place with such-and-such in your possession. You're hereby sentenced to the gallows as a spy. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.' Yet, this admin can't do things as simply as that b/c it's not 'germane' in the world's view in this age of rehabilitation and wrist-slap motherment. Point the Second... Where did I state that the US beams with pride over Japanese-American internment? FDR et al knew it was morally wrong, yet they ordered it done b/c they could not take the risk. IIRC, one terrorist tribunal was started last fall. Perhaps the govt wants to test the legitimacy/conduct of them before they go balls to the wall on 300+ cases. Phil Specter was arrested in early 2003; he had a mistrial last Sept. Four years. For a citizen of this country. Not in a war zone (then again, it's LA... ) or multinational conflicts, treaties or laws to sort through to see what applies and coming upon an absence of laws, wtf could be done to chart some territory. And then there's the gem that's the last quoted paragraph, which I think you had help on from molson. How the does having police officers in this country relate in any shape or form to transnational terrorists captured in conflicts in other nations? And furthermore, who the put it in your brain that said terrorists have, or should have, the same rights as a US citizen in regard to "innocent until proven guilty"? They don't!!!! That's a main reason of the holdup. B/c as Tom writes above, there isn't a solid legal definition for what they are. They're essentially in limbo until things are figured out.

In terms of their survival vis-a-vis their goals, yes. In terms of their tactics, no. It's a smart, committed* enemy that uses our systems and ideological dissension present in the machinations of our society against itself. We're busy discussing what color jumpsuits Gitmo inmates should wear. We're so concerned with propriety and treating our enemies to a U.S. citizen's rights of 'Better to let a guilty man free'. We're so pent up in this question of America's standing in the world and what everyone thinks of us.... while they conduct suicide bombings and beheadings. If we let Gitmo prisoners go free to conduct spectacular attacks in Iraq/Afghanistan that make the pillow-biters in this country want to grasp retreat from the jaws of victory, I'll tell you what America's standing in the world will be.

Yeah. So far, Jack and that contingent of the Lostaways do not know about Widmore's army. The phones to this point have showed/encouraged them how to meet up with the freighter people, not as a means to avoid them. This may change when Daniel or the other girl fills in, b/c I doubt they want to be on the island when the poop hits the air conditioning of what they know or suspect is coming.

Precisely my point. People (nay, citizens, many) who had done nothing wrong besides being born to the wrong nationality parents were put into camps w/o due process for several years b/c the govt at the time could not afford to risk that they wouldn't. By all accounts, they didn't like that they had to take this action, but it was something they had to do. By contrast, our govt today has captured people (non-citizens, most) who have done something wrong --- to wit, actively engaging our forces in combat or providing substantial material aid --- and decided that they couldn't risk these people getting out and rejoining their cause, to which they have dedicated suicidal-attack intentions. I'm not trying to say they're the same thing. I'm saying if FDR found it necessary to detain innocents w/o due process (even tho he morally thought that it shouldn't be done but practically it had to be done), why do the majority of pillow-biters in this country not understand a necessity to detain combatants w/o due process? Hammer --> Head of the nail.

To me, that doesn't satisfy the mindset that led to them willingly kamakazi'ing themselves among other notorious stories. A country doesn't just draft someone and immediately have a zombie drone. It was ingrained into every part of the culture similar to the religious texts/teachings of segments of the Islamic world to a fervent or tacit degree.

On the subject of the thread, tho, they've also rendered to countries where the accused is exonerated of terrorism and then in short order, conducts a terrorist suicide bombing. Probably not what they wanted, but you can't control what other countries do.

Prol'ly the reason for the much-used sarcastic "Oh... wait" right after.