grb

Three points : Some of what you say is true. For instance, it's not directly comparable how I use the 2017 season numbers because all quarterbacks deal with some degree of injury But, the numbers w/ Watkins and Woods weren't "relatively decent" - they were damn good. One of the statistics - yards per attempt - was extremely exceptional. How are those numbers even possible per your TT-hating theology? "Close to optimal" ??? Who are you trying to kid? Watkins and Woods are a good pair of receivers, but there is nothing "optimal" about them per NFL standards. I have no idea where they'd rank league-wide as a pair, but I'm guessing nowhere near the top duos. Remember : We launched into this particular argument because you claimed Taylor was sooooooo very bad it didn't matter how awful his targets were. Wrong & Wrong. Maybe your theology is a little simplistic? Yep : Posted right after the 1000th time someone made the lack-brain claim Taylor can't throw to good receivers. Pretty relevant to that bit of nonsense, huh? Come up with less stupid talking points and you'll bump me off my routine. (I promise)

Hilarious : Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field together just 15 games over two seasons. Those games he did this : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 Ints Fifteen games is, of course, nearly the length of an entire season, so it's a pretty good gauge of how Taylor would perform if receivers do in fact matter. Using this season's final QB stats as a benchmark, some points : 63.6% would only rank 13th 8.25 yards per attempt would be 1st in the NFL by 2017 numbers 27 touchdown passes would have tied for 8th, with Cousins Please remember, this data is spread out over the entirety of two years, particularly given Watkins missed most of the beginning / all of the middle of last year. You know, people who like to talk about Taylor's "regression" just never seem to notice how closely that "regression" tracks the continual draining of offensive talent over his Bills' career - sometimes by injury, but often by letting players walk or trading them away. By passing rating, Taylor finished the year just below Matt Ryan, and just above Dak Prescott and Derek Carr. I wonder how much we'd see "receivers matter" if Ryan or Carr was throwing to the Bills' targets while Taylor inherited the situation in Atlanta or Oakland. I think you'd find a whole lot of things "matter" if Dak suddenly played behind the Bill's o-line, while Taylor was throwing from Dallas' pocket. Also : Bring in Keenum and we'll see whether it "matters" that his situation is so cushy in Minnesota. I suspect you'll find out it does.....

No; he has worst numbers. So when Taylor starts next year, etc........

Jacoby freaking Brissett !!!! Are you trying to look like a fool?

So when Taylor starts next year, it will be because at least three to six NFL general managers (with their coaches) lack your intellectual acumen?

No, it's not an "honest question". It's either blind hate or pure trolling. Here's an honest question : If you can't find any exceptional plays from Taylor over the last three seasons, what would you do when asked about exceptional plays by other quarterbacks? I'll supply the answer : You'd either find none - which would be stupid - or you'd suddenly start seeing "exception" in others which you refused to see in Taylor - which would be hypocrisy. So : Stupidity or hypocrisy? (Another question, but at least it's multiple choice)

OK : I'll bite : Exactly how many of the best 32 quarterbacks playing football somehow don't qualify to be called "starters" ? Is it Taylor alone, or are there five more, ten more, a score more?

Three points : "Worst ever in history" isn't hyperbole or nonsense; it's brain-dead imbecilic feces-for-brains idiocy (which is a bit worst). "Taylor is only a back-up" is hyperbole or nonsense (which is still bad) Saying starters aren't starters because they're not all Aaron Rodgers (merely one of the top 33 players on the planet) just ain't good logic IMO.

Two Points : You want absurd? The obsession of some people insisting Taylor is nothing more than a "back-up". You see this over and over, and it's never anything more than stupid. Newsflash : Taylor's floor is still high up into the bottom third of quarterbacks. That's the worst case. If he has any choice in the matter, he'll go where he can start. Also : No one will trade for him to be a back-up. Ergo : Taylor will start, because he'll be a starting option for multiple teams. The "logic" for this "back-up" meme seems to be : "I don't like Taylor therefore he must be the 33rd worst quarterback in the league". That ain't very convincing logic. This one never gets old : The "worst passer" Kornheiser has ever seen did this the 15 games (over two seasons) he had Woods and Watkins on the field : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 Ints Gosh : Think what Taylor would have accomplished if he wasn't the worst ever in all of history....... Kinda boggles the mind, doesn't it?

You know, in another thread someone actually dug out a "throwing into tight windows" stat chart, from NextGenStats. It was funny to see another one of these hysterical message-board-cliches actually quantified. You can check out the entire chart by the link below, but two quick points : There is no correlation between good quarterbacking and frequency throwing into "tight windows". As an example, one Mr. Aaron Rodgers occupies the slot immediately below Taylor. And although Carson Wentz is pretty good and occupies the highest rating, there are some pretty shabby players in the group immediately below him. Even more amusing? Let's take Drew Brees as an example : His percent of attempts "throwing into tight windows" is 1.4% higher than Taylor. That translates into about six attempts over the course of Taylor's season and plus-minus 3.68 completions - round-up and say one every four games. Now, that's playing it super safe, right? https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/200274-tyrod-taylor-playoff-qb/?page=16&tab=comments#comment-4800854

Yep. A couple of times is pretty much what I remember too. Strange how "open receiver after open receiver" morphs into a couple of times. Here's something else I remember : Replay after replay after replay showing the Bills' receivers completely blanketed. I know Romo mentioned that a few times, thought I won't hazard a guess how many.

In the 15 games Woods and Watkins actually played together in 2015-16, Taylor's numbers were 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs When Watkins was healthy in 2015, he caught 60 passes for 1,047 yds, 17.5 ypc, and 9 tds - this in only 13 games, and he was targeted better than with Goff.

But Romo didn't point out open receiver after open receiver. You might want to go back and watch the game again to see how few were the times he did.....

An observation : COP-types (Cult of Peterman) typically jump from the Chargers game (superhuman-D, first start, etc) to the Colts game (apocalyptic weather, etc). But there was actually an interim which seldom gets mentioned : Chargers : 6-15, 40%, 66 yds 4.7 ypa, 0 td, 5 int, 1 fumble Patriots : 6-15, 40% 50 yds, 3.3 ypa, 0 td, 0 int, Colts : 5-10, 50% 57 yds, 5.7 ypa 1 td, 0 int, 1 fumble Jags : 1-3, 33% 14 yds 4.7 ypa 0 td, 1 int, 1 fumble

And yet over the previous two seasons, Taylor had a full complement of weapons - Watkins & Woods - only 15 games. When he did, the confused and overly cautious Tyrod did this : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs. Somehow the confused and overly cautious Tyrod had a better NFL passer rating this year than Dak Prescott or Derek Carr. What do you think would happen if the confused and overly cautious Tyrod was throwing to Cooper, Crabtree, Cook and Cordarrelle - while Derek inherited Zay, Deonte, and a crippled Benjamin as targets? Or lets imagine the confused and overly cautious Tyrod trading o-lines with Dak. In either case, I bet the gap between their passer ratings would increase significantly in TT's favor.

I tend to believe the exact opposite : Taylor probably won't be around next year, because the two-headed McBeane clearly is itching to dump him; the Peterman Debacle proof enough of that. But I'd be surprised if they're comfortable going into 2018 with a shiny-new first-rounder and Peterman alone. Given the precarious career-security of your typical Bills coach and GM, I think they'll want a veteran option to avoid any possibility of team regression. Whether it's Taylor or another free-agent, they'll have a third quarterback. Given any sure thing free agent will probably cost as much (or more) than the 9 million cap savings from cutting Taylor, he may well be back. So then do they keep three quarterbacks? The rookie obviously won't be at risk. The veteran could get axed as did Cassel, but I think Peterman is more likely the odd man out.

Huh? It's no logic at all. Peterman could be the 100th worst quarterback on the planet and Taylor the 99th. I don't think logic is yer forte

Raising the question whether the team would keep three quarterbacks. At a minimum, wouldn't one go to the practice squad?

Actually, ProFootballFocus calculates a passer rating under pressure, though it no doubt requires some subjective interpretation. It's always one of Taylor's highest ratings. (I attached the week 16 rankings as an example) https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-grade-after-week-16

Now that's going out on a limb. The only reason the team's best quarterback is starting is because the team's second best quarterback played so bad. Whoda thunk it?

Now that's going out on a limb. The only reason the team's best quarterback is starting is because of how the team's second best quarterback played. Whoda thunk it?

Really? Some points : If Taylor makes the throw you want then (a) it's into coverage, and (b) out of bounds at the five yard line. There is no "walking into the endzone" with the throw you want. There was easily "walking into the endzone" with the pass Taylor threw. Coincidence? I think not. If Taylor makes the throw you want it's probably not even a completion. Jones was running right into coverage and out of bounds. One of the reporters (I think Sal Capaccio) was standing a few feet away on the sidelines and said he didn't think Jones had any chance given where he was taking the route. Even if you don't believe Taylor was throwing towards the endzone and away from coverage (which is your right), you still have a big problem : Taylor's throw may have been slightly off, but no where near as off as Jones' route. Taylors throw was towards the pylon. Look at your own photos. Even tho Jones' route was terrible, even tho Jones' play on the ball was embarrassing, the pass still went thru his fingertips. Makes you believe it would have been an easy catch if Jones wasn't in panic mode - being out of place with no idea where the ball was. Real NFL receivers regular adjust to the ball on a long route. It's an elemental skill. Jones didn't realize where he was and he didn't track the ball.

The one thing I didn't want to do is re-litigate that one play again, but here we are : (1) Jones ran an atrocious route. Even assuming it a front pylon throw, Jones was shallowing-out by five or six yards, running right towards the sideline & into coverage. (2) Taylor threw the ball inside, away from the cornerback and leading into the endzone. Now, there are two choices here : You can assume that's a coincidence & it was a slightly off-throw. Or you can assume it a conscious choice - throwing to the open spot and away from coverage. The second choice is certainly the way it appears, but I concede it can't be proved either way. Nor does it matter that much. (3) Because : When you run sideline out, you turn and expect the ball in your hands. When you run forty yards downfield, it's expected you track and adjust to the ball. Jones didn't do that. He drifted towards the sideline on his strange mutant route, finally looked back, and was then panicked to discover the ball over his head. But even then ..... even after his weird little stutter-step and clumsy vertical leap .... the ball still grazed through his fingertips. (4) So : The adjustment to pull the ball in over his left shoulder would have been microscopic. He didn't have to stop running and jump straight up; all he needed to do was know where the ball was before it was right overhead. NFL receivers do that every game when running long routes. (5) It's not just that Watkins would have made that catch ten-of-ten times - or AJ Green, or Antonio Brown - it's that you would have never seen even the slightest hitch before they hauled it in. It would have looked smooth as silk. There is a reason pure speed doesn't automatically translate into a deep threat. Basic skills are also required. (6) There's also a reason why Jones was all broken-up over the play - Why his teammates made such an ostentatious show supporting him. They all knew were the blame lay. So should you.....

You might want to actually watch the play. My account is correct.

Even when two drives heading for points are torpedoed by fumbles? Even with 99 yards lost to penalties? This year the worst team in the NFL (Seattle) only averaged 83yds per game Even with Taylor repeatedly having a pass rush in his face the very second he set to throw? Let me emphasize this again : Go back and look at all accounts after the game and you'll find three common observations : Taylor played well Taylor showed up - and a lot of Bills seemingly didn't Taylor was under relentless pressure, because the o-line was awol. No one is buying what you're selling. Go watch the game again....