grb

The signing of Hyde means nothing about whether the Browns draft Barkley. Announcing Taylor starts means nothing about them drafting a QB. Jackson thinks he made a mistake starting Kizer so soon. He doesn't want to repeat it. Depending on how the Browns rate quarterback prospects, picking at four is either safe / shrewd or criminal malpractice. But no one knows how the Browns rate quarterback prospects. The Browns will get a QB at 1 or 4, though there are fancy scenarios where they trade for 2 or 3. I'm not sure why people think the Giants won't draft a QB at 2. Because they have Eli? Because they've hinted they won't? Teams feel obligated to lie about their draft aims. I think it's considered poor form to be honest and upfront. The Browns probably won't trade out of 4 even if they get their QB at 1. They have tons of picks and will be looking for quality over quantity. The only sure bet to trade up is the Colts, but there will be a lot of suitors.......

I feel like I've had to do this a million times, but here we go again : Taylor had "Woods, Watkins, Clay, and Shady" on the field for fifteen games total over three years. When he did, this was the result : 63.6% comp. 8.25 Ypa. 27 TD passes. 6 Ints There is plenty of evidence Taylor can take advantage of a situation with real NFL-grade talent, not a patched-together mess of cast-offs and cripples.....

Well, someone's a moron at least. Jackson thinks he made a mistake starting Kizer too soon Jackson doesn't want to make that mistake again. Could he change his mind? Sure. But he stated his position and the reasoning behind it. It's not all that complicated, and doesn't require any "smokescreen" - or a second gunman behind the grassy knoll, for that matter....

Speculation is fun as long as you recognize it's practical limits. So : The signing of Hyde means nothing about the Browns' intentions. Not even close to meaningful. Announcing Taylor starts means nothing. Jackson thinks he made a mistake starting Kizer and doesn't want to repeat it. Depending on how the Browns rate quarterback prospects, waiting to pick four is either safe / shrewd or criminal malpractice, and no one knows how the Browns rate quarterback prospects. The Browns will either draft a QB at 1 or 4, though you can imagine fancy scenarios where they trade for 2 or 3. I'm not sure why people are convinced the Giants won't draft a QB at 2. Because they have Eli? Because they've hinted they won't? Teams feel obligated to lie about their draft aims. I think it's considered poor form to be honest and upfront. The Browns probably won't trade out of 4 even if they get their QB at 1. They have tons of picks and will be looking for quality over quantity. That leaves the Colts. But there will be a lot of suitors.......

This thread was made for SaviorPeterman, and yet he's nowhere to be seen. Too many important meeting I guess.....

Two points : I'm amazed at people still fuming over Taylor's short, brief comment about black quarterbacks - made, of course, weeks before the bizarre & moronic decision to bench him for Peterman (a situation which Taylor handled with class). As for Taylor's comments, I personally think they're correct, that black QBs do have a smaller margin for error (at least to a degree) and are on a shorter leash. But even if I decide that's wrong - or disagree with Taylor over the extent - I would still find the anger over the comments strange. The man was in Buffalo for three years and represented the city extremely well, and yet people rage over that? Huh. As for Taylor never "turning the corner", really? Going from the end of '15 season, the Bills organization has dumped Hogan, dumped Goodwin, dumped Watkins, dumped Gillislee, dumped Woods, gave up on Karlos and Percy, saw their two main receivers miss well over half of '16 injured, saw their only two decent receivers play all of '17 injured, saw their o-line go from spotty to bad in pass protection, saw their o-line go from premier to so-so in the running game. That last development followed another useless scheme change, which dropped the Bills out of a league-leading running game. So Taylor never "turned the corner"? Go figure. Here's what I know : During his Bills career, Taylor has had a pieced-together mess for receivers except the fifteen games of '15-'16 when he had Watkins and Woods on the field. That's it : Taylor, Watkins, and Woods played together just fifteen games over two years. When that happened, this occurred : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INT

OK, let's look at the last five instances where this situation occurred : Jacksonville : Taylor went out with a concussion : Inconclusive Tampa Bay : Late game heroics. A three-play drive including a 44yd pass sets up the win Cincinnati : Taylor played poorly. Carolina : Taylor overcame a bogus OPI call to set-up what would have had a final second TD pass - but for a young receiver's inexperience Miami (2016) : Taylor comes back from 14pts down three times in the game, and put the Bills ahead with eighty seconds left, by a TD pass on 4th and goal. Seems to me the record is 3-1 looking strictly at Taylor's play in end of fourth quarter situations over that span. Of course you can blame him for Jones having zero ball awareness or the comedy of errors resulting in the '16 Miami loss. It's probably Taylor's fault because he didn't "elevate" his teammates, right? But Watkins would have caught that Carolina ball ten of ten times, and the NFL win probability is over 90% with a lead under 90 seconds left. Advanced NFL Stats actually has a chart on this. More stats that matter, huh? https://priceonomics.com/modeling-the-probability-of-winning-an-nfl-game/

Of course the odds are overwhelming Taylor is gone. Look at the record : The team has treated him like crap. They gutted the offense out from under him, particularly trading away Watkins for the primary purpose of getting a '18 second round pick - which in turn was for the primary purpose of stockpiling draft assets for Taylor's replacement. But this also includes Hogan dumped, Woods dumped, Gillisilee dumped, Goodwin dumped, as well as Percy & Karlos self-destructing on their own. They made the imbecilic move to bench Taylor for Peterman. This was after TT had played well in three of the previous four game - including the Jets loss, where Taylor was one of the few Bills who showed-up (professionally) to play at all. This was also after the defense gave up league-worse yardage those previous four games, so bench Taylor, right? That makes sense..... After the decision blew-up in their face, moronic was piled on imbecilic as McDermott refused to man-up to his mistake. Instead Taylor had to sit thru days of his coach agonizing over the starter decision everyone knew he was going to make, just as cover for his own screw-up I don't include the contract stuff since business is business and the Bills have every right not to commit long-term money to Taylor. But there is still something tawdry in the team squeezing him to take a pay cut, then dumping his number-one target almost immediately after. Taylor could have found a team where he started last year, just as he'll find a team where he starts this year. The contract negotiation was a business decision for him as well : Where's the best place to play for his next deal? Obviously he didn't have all the information. So after all this - including stuff needless, crude, stupid and insulting (and all played-out very much on the public stage) - suddenly McBeane wants to trade Taylor. So out comes the happiness, sunshine, and rainbow-colored unicorns. We're not dealing with very subtle guys here, are we? If even the Bills' sports reporters see thru this, what's the chance anyone else is fooled?

Two points about this : First, it's nice to see this stated without pretense. There a lot of Bills fans who want a new quarterback even if he's worse than Taylor, so why not admit it? Hell, there are even some hardcore COPs out there (Cult of Peterman), and that's their exclusive message. Of course the "rip off the band aid" shtick is meaningless blather, but ya can't have everything Second, you'll likely get your wish. What do you think the McCarrons, McCowns, and Fitzpatricks will do when inserted into Buffalo's offense? Most mocks I've seen are defense-heavy, even if there isn't a push to package picks and move up. The Bills' o-line is a mess, their receivers are a mess, their running game took a big step back last year via another useless scheme change, and McCoy desperately needs back-up relief. I'm not sure a huge amount of help is on the way. Whatever Non-Taylor parachutes into this mess is supposed to shine merely by being the Non-Taylor, rookie or veteran bridge. Really? Don't be surprised if it turns out otherwise.....

Think if you could fine your boss over a salary dispute..... Why isn't real life more like that?

The fifteen games Taylor had Woods and Watkins on the field, he did this : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 Ints It's frustrating as hell to see people who can't deal with facts.....

This whole "tight windows throw" thing is just another example how some people's brains shut down when it comes to Taylor. So let's see if we can get this straight : He is pretty damn good throwing into "tight windows" per the article quoted, but the response is he won't attempt the throws. People won't stand for any excuses - say, team management dumping Hogan, Goodwin, Watkins, Woods, Gillislee, etc. Nope; the problem is Taylor refuses to pull the trigger. It's just another one of those crippling flaws which disqualify him from starting in the league Isn't it hilarious? You see crap like that over and over in the comments above. Well, let's look at the numbers : Per the article, the average percent of tight windows throws is 18.6. Per the article, Taylor averaged 15.0 And what does that mean? That means maybe once per game Taylor didn't attempt a tight throw as compared to NFL average. Maybe once every other game he didn't complete a pass. That's not even considering the mess he's had at receiver these past two years, regardless of whether you think the separation stat is legit or not. That's just taking the numbers at face value. We've seen the same nonsense with "middle throws" or that tired old platitude "throwing with anticipation". People take some spoon-fed cliche and three things happen : First, they suddenly don't see Taylor throwing over the middle, leading a receiver or threading a needle. With the cliche in their heads, that stuff becomes invisible Second, they don't seem to realize even if these things are a relative weakness in Taylor's game, it's by thin margins. They don't realize this because : They're too busy wailing in hysterical panic, tearing their hair out by the fistful, sobbing in anguished grief. Cliches have a terrible effect on some people's ability to think.

As a general thing, I never understood the hate for Watkins. He had just a little bit of wide-out diva in him, but nowhere at the level of many of his peers. He played hard and played hurt, going half of '16 on a broken foot. Obviously, he's been hobbled by injuries, but there was a stretch in the '15 season where he showed what he could do - which is way more than Kelvin Benjamin has ever shown, even assuming KB has a full recovery from his knee problems. The interesting thing about Watkins / Woods in LA vs Buffalo is how they switched places, with Watkins as Taylor's clear number-one and Woods as Goff's number-one. But this one thing was too hilarious to pass up : "Take note of how someone like Hogan becomes a borderline star with another franchise. He can obviously play, but wasn't good enough for us?" Really? Chris Hogan caught 41 and 36 passes for Buffalo in seasons 2014/2015. He caught 38 and 34 passes for New England in seasons 2016/2017. Yes, there was a 2016 spike in his yards per catch, but this past year it was right back to a Buffalo level : 12.9 vs 12.5. By any yardstick, he's not within shouting distance of being a "borderline star".

We have here a fail of basic reading comprehension - and / or complete ignorance of Bills' facts on the ground. I said "whenever Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field... " I even underlined "whenever" but didn't make the text bold, for which I apologize. That would exclude half of 2016, when Watkins was on injured reserve, as well as a handful of other games either receiver missed. If you want to call that "cherry picking", go ahead. I call it a clear response to the canard that receiving talent doesn't matter with TT : Over two years and fifteen games, whenever he had an above-average pair of targets, he responded with well-above-average play. As to comparing other quarterback's performance without their weapons - I don't have to. I'm perfectly willing to concede Dak Prescott or Case Keenum would have been much, much worse players if thrown into the mess of the '17 Bills' offense. Bring - say - Case on board without upgrading the o-line, receivers, back-up rbs, scheme, and I suspect you'll see the same for yourself. Bottom line? Since '15, the Bills dumped Hogan, dumped Watkins, dumped Woods, dumped Goodwin, dumped Gillislee, gave up on Karlos and Percy, and needlessly sabotaged a league-leading rushing attack via scheme change. Taylor then "regressed". Go figure.......

I tell myself not to respond to this kind of nonsense but here I am : Quote : "You saw a glimpse of the passing offense design being more dynamic with Peterman under center" Facts : NP : 24 of 49, 49% 252 yds, 5.14 ypa, 2 tds, 21 yds, longest pass, 5 int, 2 fumbles, 12.1 qbr, 38.4 passer rating Quote : "If you're going to attribute Tyrod's weak passing to a deficient WR corps......" Fact : Whenever Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field, this resulted : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs Yeah. He's "not really a good QB" - except, of course, for the only time the Bills put a real pair of targets in the game with him. Then he was......

Here's the test to gauge if your Taylor hate is Burn-Away-the-Cerebral-Cortex pure : Nate Peterman ?!?! Please, sir, don't let me down. It's been a long day and I deserve a good laugh........

Four things : Yeah. I admit it. I'm here to see some people's heads explode. It's not the most noble sentiment, but there you have it. As a consolation : This is still probably posturing for a trade. Despite the delusions of many, Taylor is a player with a great deal of value. Yet the Bills' organization has done everything possible to destroy any chance of value from him. Whether this is just posturing, or an actual take-the-consequences decision, the team is playing catch up for their own bungling. If it's true, good for Tyrod. As for the post above, it's funny to see the bolded comment. Isn't it amazing how frequently disdain for TT trips over basic facts? Below is a analysis from mid-November : "The last thing I want to address, and hopefully dispel, is this third down conversion thing I have heard quite a bit about, and how Taylor cannot do it. First of all, on third downs on which the Bills elect to pass, they average the second most yards to go, 8.67 – now, before you blame this on Taylor, too, the Bills also rank second to last in the NFL with only 194 pass plays on first and second down – yet, they convert on 38.5 percent of third downs, which ranks a respectable 10th, all things considered. As for Taylor on third downs, he ranks third in completion percentage at 67.1, just ahead of Carson Wentz and Tom Brady, ninth in third down conversions, with 37, and eighth in third down conversion rate, at 43.5 percent, and let's remember, the Bills, due largely to their run game, are in the second-to-worst position to convert on third down on a pass play, averaging a third-and-8.67, when they elect to throw." http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/16/stats-wizard-a-by-the-numbers-look-at-bills-quarterback-tyrod-taylor/

But I wasn't talking about 2015, was I? The numbers I quoted combined 2015 and 2016, with most of the games from '16 coming in the second half of the season - after Watkins was back from Injured Reserve. Surely teams teams had "game film" on Taylor by then. Bottom line? Over two years and fifteen games, whenever the Bills organization got a pair of quality wide receivers on the field with Taylor, he played well above average. If you put him on - say - the Dallas Cowboys, I'd bet he outperforms Dak. How can I know that? Well, look at the final NFL passer ratings this past season. Taylor was above Prescott, despite Dak's better running attack, better receivers, and much better offensive line. Meanwhile, by the 2017 season the Bills had dumped Hogan, dumped Goodwin, dumped Gillisilee, dumped Woods, dumped Watkins, given up on Harvin & Karlos, and needlessly sabotaged the best rushing attack in the NFL with a stupid scheme change. I'd say that's more relevant to Taylor's "regression" that any "game film" nonsense. The whole "game film" thing tends to be sport-cliche-blather, and here that's clearly so......

True enough. But it's kinda funny you've watched the Bills drain away offensive talent the past two years - coupled with injuries to the o-line and receivers - added to needless scheme change (the o-line particularly effected) and then you're first in line to whine about Taylor "regressing" Newsflash : If Taylor gets on a team with a half-way decent offense he's "going to look a lot better" Remember what happened the fifteen games Taylor had Woods and Watkins on the field? 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs Something like that........

How wrong can one person be? I'll agree there's only a small likelihood Taylor is a Bill next year, but Peterman's odds are actually worse. Let's do the math : The Bills will draft a quarterback high in the draft and his job is safe. The Bills will not accept going into the '18 season with rookie & Peterman. Even if Taylor is cut, they'll bring in a veteran The odds they'll bring in a veteran less fit to start than Peterman are microscopic Even if they do keep three quarterbacks, the odds are better for swiss-army-knife Webb, than Nate. So it's the practice squad or getting cut outright. How could you misread things so badly?

Five points : I love these Tyrod debates too. Obviously. Of course people cherry pick a sample size that proves their point. Mine covers fifteen games - almost the equivalent of an entire season - is spread over two years, and happens to be the only time the Buffalo Bills organization put a real Number One & Two receiver on the field with Taylor. If yer gonna "cherry-pick", that seems a pretty relevant place to start, don't ya think? And yet when he had two legit NFL receivers he wasn't "mediocre", was he? We've come full circle : Me providing evidence which you studiously ignore. Of course you're not even a top-ten offender. I love people who say Taylor refuses to throw downfield, ignoring the friggin 8.25 ypa when he actually had a real Number One target to throw to Unless The Bills manage to significantly upgrade their receivers, offensive line, back-up runners, and scheme, you might want to get ready for more "mediocre" QBs to come. There's always tomorrow for dreams to come true, eh?

Guilty as charged, but for a reason: People post deeply stupid lists of all the things Taylor supposedly "can't do" I provide evidence he "did" just fine when the Bills put good receivers on the field with him. It's a simple and clear point, isn't it?

Speaking of not getting it, here we have Exhibit A. Taylor had Watkins and Woods on the field only fifteen games over two seasons. Half of that was with Watkins playing on a broken foot, but lets set that aside. Over those fifteen games, we had this : A yards per average which would have been tops in the NFL per the 2017 regular season of sixteen games A touchdown total which would have been 8th in the NFL per the 2017 regular season, tied with Kirk Cousins An interception total would have been one of the league's lowest Now, is this a completely accurate yardstick? No, because you'd have to allow for other quarterbacks losing their targets too. But when the Bills put decent receivers on the field with him, he did not perform below average or even average. What he did was well above average. And is it so wrong to want that ???

Uh huh. Put - say - Case Keenum on a Bills team with the 2017 receivers and o-line and guess what would happen? His "intelligence" would drop precipitously without the "better toys" he had last season to "help mask it" That is, if you still saw it in terms of intelligence..........

Funny how Taylor's intelligence was so much higher when the Bills had real NFL talent at wide receiver on the field : The result whenever he had Woods and Watkins playing : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs Wanna process that information? You can take your time.........