grb

Uh huh. Of course you would. No doubt you'd sleep equally at ease as a Bills GM. The last decade : Marv Levy : 2007 Russ Brandon : 2008-09 Buddy Nix : 2010-12 Doug Whaley : 2013-17 Brandon Beane : ?????? Average term : 2.5 years.

I'm not saying it is. But we dumped an exceptional athletic talent in receiver for a mediocre replacement and second round draft pick. If someone wants to justify the deal on those terms, fine. If someone wants to say Watkins is "fated" always to be injured because of a gypsy curse put on him as a child, fine. If someone wants to say it was impossible to resign or franchise him next year, fine. But to say the Bills dumped an exceptional athletic talent in receiver for a mediocre replacement - but don't worry because the replacement is "capable" strikes me as a very Bills way of looking at things.

I'm sorry, but the Bills didn't dump Watkins because he wasn't "a fit" and they didn't bring in Matthews because he was the "right kind of guy to win" The average term of a Bills head coach this century is under three years. The next coach in line always knows that, knows he's dealing with an angry fan base & impatient ownership, knows he'll be under a spotlight because of the team's playoff streak. Of course he'll get the generous multi-year contract and statements of undying support, but Rex got all that, didn't he? Two years of .500 ball and he was out the door. If a Bills coach - any Bills coach - doesn't see his job as a two year audition then he's blind stupid, and McDermott doesn't strike me as stupid. Of course dump major team talent in a firesale and you raise the stakes even higher. For instance : The Bill's may be unable to do anything more with their collection of draft choices except pick the quarterback who would have fallen to them anyway - and then spend the leftovers on cornerbacks & wide receivers. That is an entirely possible scenario. Quarterback selections are usually a coin flip anyway. So now you're on a two year leash, you've made a major bet with no idea how it will turn out, and your future depends on some unknown person and the flip of a coin. Yes, that is just ..... well ...... silly, but welcome to your life coaching the Buffalo Bills.

Heck, if we got rid of McCoy we'd probably have "capable" running backs, particularly if we got a mediocre replacement in the deal. Obviously it wouldn't affect our running game in the slightest.......

This is pretty accurate. Matthews is a step back from Watkins, unless you automatically assume Watkins can't play. Overall, better than last year's mess, but exchanging the team's best receiving option for a mediocrity (and second round pick) is a loss. Trading a Number One for another Two. Trading the team's premier wide-out for yet another slot receiver. And getting rid of the Bill's only deep threat. But Taylor coped last year, and will do so this year. But this is how one person described it today : Hall of Fame QB Jim Kelly said Sunday losing Tyrod Taylor losing Sammy Watkins is "like me losing Andre Reed." Kelly, though, says he understands why the Bills made the trade and urges fans to "keep your hope, stay on the wagon and hopefully it's sooner rather than later." Keep your hope, stay on the wagon, and hopefully it's sooner rather than later. I can live with that, except maybe that staying on the wagon part. I was never very good at that.....

Really ?!?! List of Bills head coaches in this millennium : Wade Phillips : 1998-2000 Greg Williams : 2001-2003 Mike Mularkey : 2004-2005 Dick Jauron : 2006-2009 Perry Fewell : 2009 Chan Gailey : 2010-2012 Doug Marrone : 2013-2014 Rex Ryan : 2015-2016 Anthony Lynn : 2016 Sean McDermott : ????? So if you (old school) were in McDermott's shoes, you'd feel totally secure, eh?

This. Remember : The Bills still remain a run-first team. The only thing which truly wows the fan base is volume numbers; even if perfect TT would not impress enough fans with this offense Beane and McDermott have little flexibility on Draft Day after dumping the teams best receiver & corner for a second & third pick Beane and McDermott are already worried about their jobs. Today. Right now. Picking Taylor's replacement will be the easiest choice they can make. It will buy them time Therefore, it is virtually impossible Taylor's performance this season affects their decision one way or another.

It's kind of funny. When the Bills signed Boldin a lot of people - reporters and commentators here - said it was a sign the organization wanted to give Taylor a full set of weapons to prove himself one way or another. I saw that thought stated in various ways more than two dozen times. Then days later the team dumps their only Number One receiver and primary deep threat - for a mediocre replacement and a second round pick. Now the Bills have three or four slot receivers and nothing close to a clear First wide-out. The only real question is whether Beane saw this as the unavoidable cost of getting another second round pick, or an advantage in and of itself. Whether he sees it as a feature or a bug. His eyes darted about a bit wild and he got somewhat flustered when asked if the team was tanking. Clearly they aren't, but limited success in 2017 is a plus given the path they've already settled on. Also : Of course it matters who a quarterback throws to - saying otherwise is flat-out absurd.

Taylor performed better with a legitimate No 1 & No 2 receiver. That's a fact easily proved by hard data. For instance : Over 8yds per attempt, which is an exceptional number. Or that he threw 24tds to only 6 interceptions. Two Points : That Taylor's performance would suffer lacking starter-grade targets isn't a sign of weakness, but puts him in the same class as 90+ percent of his peers. You can see this in the fall-off of Dalton when he lost Green for example. Or you can see this in the ludicrous counter-argument that Brady or Rodgers don't need receivers. The hard numbers showing TT performed better with Watkins (and Woods) have been repeated discussed on this board. So what in the world is your point, Crusher? When you post, is it important you have a point?

There is absolutely nothing Taylor can do this season short of winning a Super Bowl that would stop the Bills from drafting his replacement. I suspect he'll have a very good year. It's possible the team might even sneak into the wild card. But none of that will matter. When you dump your best receiver and corner for mediocre players and mid-range draft picks, the result has to be a first-rate show on Draft Day. That means quarterback, which means that decision is locked-in. The real question is what happens with Taylor then. He'll still be relatively cheap, particularly given the payout required to void his contract. Beane & McDermott may not want to throw their newly drafted quarterback into the fray immediately since their very careers depend on his success. They might very well keep TT around another year as a dead-man-walking. If that happened, I'd suspect some heads around here would explode......

You win this thread!

No one knows what Peterman's value is - and the Vikings game did nothing to settle it one way or another. But pulling "a Pats" really only works if you're a Pat; pulling a "Bills" would be a little bit harder. Take Garoppolo as an example. Obviously people have seem him play a few games - on an extremely talented team for an accomplished organization - but they really don't know that much about him either. It's only the reflected glow of Brady & Belichick that have people lusting after Jimmy. There's really no reason to assume he's any better than Cassels or Mallet, but people want to believe. Getting them to want to believe in Peterman might be a bit more difficult.....

After the trade, it's a given they're going for a quarterback high in the draft. Since I think the Bills will still be competitive this season, that means packaging picks and moving up. Even if Taylor is very good and the team slips into the wild card, it won't make any difference. Trading away your top receiver and cornerback for meh players & mid-range picks only makes sense in terms of Draft Day drama. The fan base only buys into this deal as leading to a god-like QB in the next draft. Don't give'em that and a mob will be after Beane & McDermott with pitchforks and torches. Personally, I don't think a second & third draft pick is worth the box they've put themselves in - much less the value of the traded players - but we'll see.

Trade thoughts : Yes - a fire sale. The Bills traded their best receiver & cornerback for players clearly less skilled. The team dumped assets for just two draft choices, a second & third. Who is the Bills No. 1 receiver now? Mathews, Boldin, and Jones are all projected No.2s and seen primarily as slot receivers. Is there a deep threat among the bunch? Watkins was "injury prone", true. As a matter of history or luck that's an apt description. I've always been wary of transferring that to the future or "fate" when talking about a player. It smacks a bit of magical thinking. We were repeatedly told a second operation would fix his foot issue. Why shouldn't that be true? A common talking point is the trade changes the Bills from a 8&8 team to 6&10, or from 9&7 to 7&9. It's also possible it changes them from 10&6 to 8&8. Would anyone care? All parties have said the Right Thing in sports-speak, which is expected and even admirable. The only one who pushed it was Beane. He denied dumping the team's assets in trading away their best receiver by pointing to Boldin, a 37 year old player clearly at the end of his career - a magnificent career, but still..... Taylor will probably have a good year - perhaps a very good year - but taking away his best target and primary deep threat will clearly have an effect. Look at Dalton last year, before and after the injury to Green. One wonders whether this effect is a feature or a bug. Is there anything Taylor could do this season where the Bills wouldn't package draft picks for a QB? A good year by TT would complicated a decision already on rails. Taylor was the consummate professional talking about the deal and will be so on the field. After all, he'll be playing for his next team and contract. But is it that simple? Say TT has a very good year. Say the Bills move up for a QB. Does Taylor then get cut? He'll still be relatively cheap, given the payout required to void his contract. Beane and McDermott may be reluctant to throw their new QB right into the fray, particularly given their jobs are at stake over his performance. They may chose to bring Taylor back in 2018 as a dead-man-walking. I wonder how his professionalism would hold up to that?

If someone is going to take the time & effort to give his detailed analysis of a game, more power to him.....

Two things : Whether a magical formula conclusively determines the maximum degree of skill Taylor is capable of, based on how long he was a back-up. This formula is so scientific it will "prove" what no one has been able to agree on looking at TT's two seasons starting real games. Whether individual posters are "haters" or "fanatics" or "cultists" - and if they merit censor by our moderator overlords Heck, at this point I'd even welcome the chance to get back to the whole "throwing receivers open" brouhaha.

With meaningless arguments – measured by degree of meaninglessness – this one has to rank high. As I understand it, the substance is thus : After (X) years, a quarterback is either “franchise” or turns into a pumpkin Pumpkins don’t have arms Ergo, pumpkins can’t throw Ergo, pumpkins can’t become “franchise” Ergo, after (X) years a quarterback can’t be “franchise” - QED Cue a zillion posts on a handful of pumpkins in NFL history. The problem is it’s a meaningless data sample. Most QBs prove themselves one way or another well before (X) years by : Being a high draft choice, so the team has to validate their investment Injuries giving the QB a chance The team's QB situation is such a mess everyone’s in the running None of these apply to Taylor. Flacco never missed a game for injury all the years TT played there. And Joe's the city’s idol, a Super Bowl hero, the face of the team, and a "franchise quarterback". Also : Joe may run hot & cold, but there’s always been enough ups to keep the team hooked. There was never any chance Taylor would start there. As for the magical (X) number, it’s meaningless in & of itself. It’s good for a QB to sit on the bench a while – with some it’s probably essential – but I imagine there are diminishing returns. TT’s professional growth from Year Three to Four was probably a fraction of what it was from One to Two. A quarterback has to play. Likewise, I imagine most of a QB’s growth comes in the first three years of starting. This year will be interesting…….

My advice? If we're gonna get this thread to 100 pages then everybody is going to have to pace themselves......

You REALLY want ugly, try this : Suppose Taylor has a season that's very good - maybe even extremely good - but still short of spectacular. Heck, let's say it coincides with ten wins and a WC. Then we're all back at it next year trying to decide what to do with those first-rounders. You think the Great Tyrod Message Board War is bad now? Imagine what it would be like then.........

And the percentage with McCoy? Just asking..........

This.......

Reading Dennison's comments which started this farrago, that was my reaction : He was talking about decisiveness and quick decisions rather than the infamous "throw with anticipation". The two may be related but they're not the same thing. Of course Taylor could improve in both, so maybe it's a moot point.

A.B.T. "Anyone But Tyrod"

Here we go again - with all the things Taylor can't do - is incapable of doing - probably shouldn't even try - etc. A partial list includes : Can see over the line Never throws in the middle of the field Can't read defenses Can't "throw with anticipation" Can't process decisions at game speed Can't throw with accuracy Can't throw from the pocket And a dozen or so more flaws, all beyond the slightest hope of redemption. Clearly, this is someone incapable of playing quarterback. And yet...... If you take the fifteen games where Taylor played with a legit number 1&2 receiver (Watkins & Woods), this was the result : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs Maybe he can play the position after all, ya think? Even if he can't "throw with anticipation", 8.25 YPA looks pretty damn good. Heck, he gets just a smidge better at "throwing with anticipation", he might even improve on those numbers.....

If you watched their video stand-up after Day Ten and read the follow-up by the hair-guy, Matt Schneidman, you heard this gem : "Taylor found Clay for a touchdown, but the score came after Taylor's pass was tipped by cornerback Leonard Johnson and it fell into the hands of a stumbling Clay." Which is weird, because it's not even close to being true, as the below video shows. After they alone trashed TT for yesterday's practice, I thought it was a snit for Taylor's yelling at reporters. It might just be their overall sour disposition though........ http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Watch-Bills-Sign-Boldin-Clay-Caps-TD-Drive/043be1b7-185b-4a04-899d-c4ab99f87210