grb

Really ?!? Is this a Cult of Zay thing? Please understand : I have nothing against Mr. Jones, who I'm sure is becoming a fine and accomplished receiver. All I did was describe what happened on one play, and that after only someone said I was mistaken about the play. You're welcome to put in your two cents too. I'm sure ZJ won't mind.

Uh huh. Again : If Jones had the slightest clue where the pass was no one would have even noticed the tweak to his (bad) route which and the resulting TD would have been flawless. To produce his "dive for the ball", Jones had to take a stutter step and jump straight up. With just a trace of ball awareness he could have ran it through and the pass would have dropped over his left shoulder. But he was so late tracking the pass his reaction was panicked; he actually slowed to jump. Did you really not see that?

When Taylor made a second's move in the pocket, that corresponded to Holmes being open on the middle of the back baseline. If Taylor hadn't made that move, there would have been an earlier & simpler throw at that moment. It's a bizarre thing to crow about, but whatever......

Really? You actually need me explain it to you, very slowly and simply? (1) The problem with Jones' last play vs Carolina wasn't failing to make the catch, which would have been extremely difficult given his goofy play on the ball. (2) Nor was the problem simply Jones' route, though it was bad if the play was a front pylon route, and hideously bad if a back pylon route. (3) I presume the former, which meant Jones' route cheated a little to the outside and Taylor's throw a little to the inside. (4) But Taylor's throw led the play away from coverage and into the endzone. Jones' route was out of bounds and crowding the cornerback. But that wasn't the major problem either. (5) The problem was Jones didn't have a freak'n clue where the ball was until it was almost over his head. Yeah, run a flat out to the sidelines, turn, and you expect the ball to hit your hands. But receivers who run forty or fifty yards downfield don't assume that luxury. In the pros or college - or even damn high school - they're expected to get their head back and track the ball. Jones did everything wrong, was forced into a panicked twisted play on the ball, and still had it graze thru his hands. Locate the ball a bit sooner and his adjustment would have been microscopic; it would have looked effortless as he swept in for the score. Watkins would make that catch ten times out of ten. Any experienced receiver would. You don't even have to assume Taylor was throwing to the ideal spot, though that's certainly the way it appeared. Jones needs to know where the ball is before it's right on top of him.

I had to look it up (thanks, it's always good to learn something new), but I'd say you're TLAR on the question.....

Experiencing déjà vu? The feeling you're reliving something from the past - maybe again & again & again? Welcome to the Great Tyrod Message Board War............

I'm a veteran - though to be fair, only by six uneventful years in the Army National Guard. He didn't dishonor me. I get up, go to work all week & watch football on Sunday, all without the slightest rage against Kaepernick. Maybe I need to put in more of an effort towards feeling blind fury? I feel I must be lacking something........

Why not look at the last four games when late Fourth Quarter drives were needed? Tampa Bay : Taylor leads the Bills on a 75yd drive resulting in a TD with 2:28 on the clock. That sets up the game winning FG moments later Cincinnati : Not a keeper, TT-scrapbook-wise Carolina : Taylor leads the Bills to the 33, despite a dubious OPI call. A chance for a game winning TD pass into the endzone on 4th & 11 is lost by an overwhelmed rookie's lack of ball awareness Miami : Leading the Bills back from 14pts down the third time, Taylor throws a TD pass on 4th down to take the lead with 1:20 on the clock. Of course you'll say the Bills didn't win the Miami or Carolina games, which is fair enough. But if we're asking if Taylor can be clutch in last minute situations, why not just ask it? How did he look the last four times in that position? Pretty good three times out of four.

His character? What exactly about his character? Aside from the Knee Thing, the only bad word I ever heard about Kaepernick was he tended to be too withdrawn and aloof for a good leader. There was no off-field issues, no locker room issues, and nothing about him being a troublemaker. Personally, I always thought his protest was misguided because you can't have an open-ended protest about an open-ended problem. The issues he's concerned about aren't going to magically go away. He was committed to indefinite confrontation with no achievable aim. I didn't think that wise, but never saw any reason to question his sincerity. And all the man ever did was go down on one knee - which is as quiet and restrained as confrontation gets. That doesn't even begin to move the needle off my basic tendency to live and let live. You want an indication how hard-up people are to justify their anger against Kaepernick? One pair of socks and a tee shirt comprise ninety percent of the case against him. Somehow I don't think a pair of socks would be so important if there were any issues to be found in his past or character.

Ya know, if the best you got to complain about is a man's socks, isn't it time to give it a rest?

Yup. A steel cage match no-holds-barred battle between Nate and Cam. Who wouldn't pay to see that? Seriously though, you can pretty much make a thread outta anything these days, can't you?

The real battleground of the Great Tyrod Message Board War is over two things : (1) Where the Bills draft a quarterback. I've always assumed a first round QB is inevitable, regardless of how well Taylor plays. But with his good or bad performance the choice could either be a bundled deal to move up or possibly even a second round pick. Given the Bills' stockpile of draft picks, I doubt McBeane could opt not to use a high pick on a QB even if they even partially thought it unnecessary. I honestly think the pressure to do so would be a deciding factor. Beane has been willing to make unpopular choices, but the draft is his Fat Lady Singing moment. It will be pressure-squared then. (2) Taylor back in '18 as the presumptive starter. If TT continues to play at his recent level, I think he'll surely be back. The front office may have a bright shinny new toy in an early round QB pick, but will be very cautious about throwing him in the pool for fear he can't swim. Also, imagine the Bills winning plus-minus eleven games this year, dumping Taylor, and then taking a step back. What would be a Bills fan-style reaction to that? Lastly, there's the locker room to consider, where Taylor seems to get a great deal of respect. Of course Peterman is the wild card in this. Maybe he's a savior after all......

Yep. Carr is far, far, far ahead of Taylor, due to TT's "limitations" Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth : Completion Percentage : Taylor - 63.8 Carr - 64.6 Yards per Attempt Taylor - 6.9 Carr - 6.9 Interception Percentage Taylor - 1.0 Carr - 2.5 Touchdown Percentage Taylor - 4.1 Carr - 5.0 Plus 20yd Pass Play % Taylor - 10.7 Carr - 8.3 Maybe a slight edge to Carr, though it's pretty close. And I'll grant Carr has more overall yards than Taylor : 158 total yards more this season, passing and rushing combined. Of course Carr has Crabtree, Cooper, Cook, and Cordarrelle - but I guess we're not supposed to mention that when talking about Taylor's "limitations". It's probably not the polite thing to do. Supposed we switched places and Taylor (with his "limitations") was throwing to Crabtree and Cooper - Carr was throwing to Holmes and Tate. I bet that would wipe away Carr's edge over Taylor (such that it is) in the blink of an eye. I'd bet the edge would swing clearly the other way. What do you think? (Oops : This is highly embarrassing, but I gave Carr credit for having 158 more total yards than Taylor before checking whether Oakland has had their bye. They haven't. Carr is averaging less yards per game than Taylor)

Wayne Arnold's post, in it's entirety : Taylor is currently 29th in the league in passing yards per game. Only five quarterbacks who have started a game this season averages less than 165 yards per game: Deshone Kizer (rookie), CJ Beathard (rookie), Joe Flacco, Kevin Hogan and Mitch Trubisky (rookie). You start off by mentioning Taylor's season average in yards per game. Then you switch to his yardage in yesterday's game to compare to other quarterback's - yep - season average per game. Mind you, as sleight-of-hand goes it was very cleverly done. But if Taylor is as gawd-awful as you claim, why bother with such tricks?

Your point is legit. But Taylor isn't a Captain Checkdown type. Here's one way to gauge that : The NFL tallies +20yd pass plays. You can take the number of such plays by a quarterback and divide by their total attempts, to see how often they push the ball down the field. Right now Taylor is sixth in the NFL, behind Watson, Goff, Brees, Cousins, and Brady. Russell Wilson is seventh. And that is with a rag-tag collection of receivers and no real deep threat.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders Though I do stand corrected - He's currently 15th by this week's numbers. Last week he was 20th or 21st. Gillislee is third.

Did anyone else notice the trick Wayne plays here? He takes yesterday's passing number - 165yds - and tries to pass it off as Taylor's season average. If he had a stronger case, I'd bet such tactics wouldn't be necessary......

As good as McCoy is, prior to yesterday the running game ranged from erratic to nonexistent. Remember at Carolina, when the running backs accounted for 14yds total? Signs are looking good with Glenn healing and the OC relaxing on his imposed blocking scheme changes, but in the first part of the season, the running game was a shell of it's 2016 self . Also : If you want to blame McCoy's issues on facing a stacked box, forget it. Like everything else there's a stat for that, and McCoy has ranked down in the 20s all season in frequency facing 8-or-more. The O-line's virtues never extended to pass protection. Yes, Taylor sometimes takes too long to pass, but quarterbacks slightly better or worse at Time to Throw still get sacked at a much lower rate. Why would you guess that is? Really? The Bills have one of the bottom-five groups of receivers in the league - perhaps the worst - and you give us Matthew's record on a team that didn't even plan to start him. The Bill's have no legitimate number-one receiver, no true wide-out (in a collection of number-two slot receivers), no real deep threat, and a rookie just coming out of a prolonged funk. Most of the Bills receivers are either punt returners or cast-offs rejects from other teams. Right now Taylor is eleventh by the NFL's passer rating. Who above him has done more with less? No one.

At three turnovers, the offense is on pace to crush the record for least number of turnovers in a year (ten). But KC actually has less - one.

Not just the playoffs, but a playoff bye....

Turnover differential Bills first in the NFL at +14 Jaguars second at +8 KC third, with half the Bill's number: +7 http://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html

At moments like this, I tend to remember the Bills traded Kevon Seymour for Kaelin Clay.

So, two questions : (1) Are we suffering from Tyrod Post Overdose? Seems like half the responses here are various forms of sniping over math, grammar, other posters, etc. Sunday can't come soon enuff.... (2) Is there any other QB who does more with less than Taylor? Yeah - obviously you can counter with raw attempt numbers, if that's your thing. But in terms of skilled quarterbacking, who of his peers has done as well with such factors as an erratic (sometimes non-existent) running game, pass protection which too frequently dissolves away, and receiving options from the Island of Misfit Toys? Other quarterbacks have played better. Other quarterbacks have it as bad, or nearly so. But what combination of the two?

Actually, I've heard the exact opposite : There is concern how well Boldin would go over in the locker room.

It's called making a point and doesn't have to be "real world". And the point was Boldin's rather shabby actions are partial understood by what the Bills did. He's a man at the end of a long and distinguished career who wanted to go out a winner. He signed with a team making loud noises about just that - who immediately took actions which looked like they were writing-off the season & tanking. As for the original post, I don't have strong feelings either way. Neither side looked good in this fracas. The OP might have done better if he'd not mentioned "oppressing" and simply asked if the Bills should be magnanimous. The idea being : (1) They themselves aren't entirely blameless, (2) The man has a long career worthy of respect, (3) Any recompense would be piddling.... One question was whether the signing bonus was or wasn't paid back. I've heard it both ways.....