grb

Where has there ever been the slightest evidence Taylor's skill or efficiency as a passer declines with more attempts? If you go back and compare his production with under-25 vs over-35 attempts, do you think they'll be some quantified drop off? Fair warning : People have looked for that difference before and hadn't found a trace.

Like I said, it was a test of what you see......

I'm really curious : Did you see the last Miami game? It wasn't that long ago - only nine TT starts back. That game tramples on a couple more of your "impossibilities" (1) Taylor brought the Bills back three separate times from fourteen points down, leading a late game drive & throwing a fourth down TD pass to take the first lead with 1:20 left (4) And wasn't it the epitome of offensive shootouts? Between the two teams : 1100 yards of offense & over sixty points. Now you can say the Bills didn't win in the end, which would be a semi-legitimate bit of weaseling if you're that desperate. And of course Taylor got pretty good protection from his line that game - not as good as Dak gets every game - but still pretty good. And he had two NFL-grade receivers playing in the Miami contest, which was a rare enough occurrence in 2016. But, heck, now I'm getting into "excuses" aren't I?

New York - Week 1 : The running backs gain 154 yards at 4.47 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 224 yards, runs for 38 yards. New York - Week 9 : The running backs gain 28 yards at 1.75 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 285 yards, runs for 35 yards

Ok, now you've made me curious : You did see two promising drives into Jet's territory torpedo'ed via turnovers, right? Or did that fact slip your mind.....

I'm being repetitive, but who here isn't? Explain what you see when you look at these numbers : New York - Week 1 : The running backs gain 154 yards at 4.47 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 224 yards, runs for 38 yards. New York - Week 9 : The running backs gain 28 yards at 1.75 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 285 yards, runs for 35 yards It's like a Rorschach Test. If you see Taylor as the problem here, you may have an issue - with some fancy psychology name no doubt......

Of course that sort of thing is all subjective, They also blame TT for a hit and a hurry. I haven't even seen those numbers ( hit/hurry ) but assume they're pretty ugly.....

Your judgement doesn't jibe with Pro Football Focus. They blame two of the seven sacks on Taylor.

"Watch his road play vs his home play" ?!? OK; I'll bite : New York - Week 1 : The running backs gain 154 yards at 4.47 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 224 yards, runs for 38 yards. New York - Week 9 : The running backs gain 28 yards at 1.75 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 285 yards, runs for 35 yards. We apologists are both fun & factual. It's a twofer........

Is that even true? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Taylor threw for over a hundred yards in the first half, for well over a 60% completion rate and +7 yards a throw - and for a touchdown. Aside from accumulating some extra attempts and resulting yardage, how did "garbage time" affect the second half numbers? Maybe a bit of an increase to his completion rate and even smaller tick-up to his ypa - and a touchdown...... Someone posted the First Half number of 115 yards. So "garbage time" might have added about 50 yards to a fairly even production. Hardly "most" I'd say......

I've asked this question a few times now, but haven't yet seen a reply. We have two games with the same teams & players. You get this : New York - Week 1 : The running backs gain 154 yards at 4.47 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 224 yards, runs for 38 yards. New York - Week 9 : The running backs gain 28 yards at 1.75 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 285 yards, runs for 35 yards. What about this screams out "Taylor's fault" to you?

It almost has the quality of a thought experiment. Can you image a game where : (1) The Bills lose. (2) Overall the team plays poorly - in many cases very poorly (3) But Taylor still plays pretty well (4) And yet TT's critics not blame the loss on him? And blame with seething spittle-spraying rage, no less. Of course it wasn't a perfect test of the issue. Lord knows Taylor's fumble was ugly enough. But I'm more and more convinced such a game cannot be imagined. Given the personalities involved, it would be like trying to imagine a square circle......

New York - Week 1 : The Bills' running backs gain 154 yards at 4.47 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 224 yards, runs for 38 yards. New York - Week 9 : The Bills' running backs gain 28 yards at 1.75 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 285 yards, runs for 35 yards. Comparing the two - win & loss - I'm not sure Taylor stands out as the problem.

Unfortunately the path to ten wins just got tighter : Saints, Chargers, Colts, Dolphins, Dolphins does it, but it makes the next two games critical. The Bills can steal one from Chiefs, Patriots, Patriots, but if they can't generate any pass rush I'm pessimistic about NE.

Two problems : (1) No pass rush will be a massive issue in the Patriots games. The way to beat them is pressure and hit Brady. I still think a major turning point in Atlanta's Super Bowl loss was when they stopped getting pressure on the quarterback. (2) All those draft choices amassed in the Bills' hope chest are really impressive. But start tallying up all the needs and suddenly they don't seem that many.

Carolina : The running backs gained 14 yards total, at 0.93 yards a carry New York : The running backs gained 28 yards total, at 1.75 yards a carry. How do you think most NFL quarterbacks fare faced with a situation like that? Alright, let's try looking at it from another angle : New York - Week 1 : The running backs gain 154 yards at 4.47 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 224 yards, runs for 38 yards. New York - Week 9 : The running backs gain 28 yards at 1.75 yards a carry. Taylor throws for 285 yards, runs for 35 yards. You look at that and your reaction is to blame Taylor ?!? The same teams. The same lines, offense & defense. The same QB and RBs.......

I don't suppose they fine for something like that?

Ya know, I suspect any team which gets 28yds from it's running backs at 1.75 yds a carry is going to have a very large chance of losing. Even if they're not cursed with Tyrod Taylor as their quarterback..........

Really? Is this what you're reduced to ?!? In another one of those special Taylor Exceptions his critics so love, now Tyrod is to be assessed phantom passes - at least until we muscle the numbers in line with our preconceptions.......

On the other hand, it's historical to say the Bills were committed to a heavy-run low-volume passing attack before Taylor ever signed - and as a camp body not expected to compete as a starter (to continue the history lesson). If you're claiming the team's run-first philosophy consistent over these past years is because of Taylor's limitations, I'd think it relevant and reasonable to note the Bills incessantly talked about just such a offensive scheme while TT was still living two states away. With our history, a story : Over at Rumbling there's a hard-core hater with the moniker BD-something-or-another. I swear Tyrod must have stole his woman, keyed his car, and kicked his dog for all the venom he's spewed on the QB. Well one day this guy announces (with his usual seething rage) that he plans to quantitatively prove how bad Taylor is when forced to pass - when TT has to put up big numbers of attempts. His next appearance was strangely muted because - it seems - the numbers said the exact opposite. Bless his heart - he's a grouchy curmudgeon but an honest one. There has never been any evidence Taylor can't perform equally well with 20, 25, 30, 35 attempts. People assume there must be but ..... sorry ..... there just isn't

If you calculate 20+ yard plays by attempt - how often a quarterback pushes the ball down the field - Taylor is currently sixth in the NFL Divide the number of long plays by attempts and you get this : 1. Watson 2. Goff 3. Brees 4. Cousins 5. Brady 6. Taylor 7. Wilson But it always boils down to attempts, doesn't it?

When receivers have experience and/or lots of playing time with a quarterback everyone just knows what the other will do. Clay has already broken off several routes this season when he saw clear space and Taylor scrambling. Watkins would have automatically adjusted to the ball in a way Jones didn't in Carolina. It's just game experience and time playing with Taylor. You have to expect lost opportunities when relying on a rookie & a guy just learning the position.

What's wrong with a spiced honey-mead wine anyway?

Well her opinion "flawlessly meshed" with the views of a large part of this board too.....

My last input (because it really is water under the bridge) : Zay's heroic attempt at a catch was caused by two factors : (1) He didn't track the ball until it was literally right on top of him, and (2) That caused a panicked play on the ball, because it was coming on the inside, not the outside. That caused him to slow, twist his body and jump nearly vertically. Just locate the pass a split-second sooner, and he could have ran it out, pulling it in over his left shoulder. Route aside (and I've never heard anyone confirm what route was called), it was solely the difference between inside and out. Jones couldn't adjust to the pass coming in on a different side of his body. So to assign blame, there's two steps : (1) Jones' ball awareness (or lack thereof) prevented him from making the simplest adjustment to play the ball. That's so fundamental you could stop right there. Receivers running long routes track the pass and adjust to it's path; you see it every game. And given Zay's stumbling twisting leaping attempt still resulted in the ball slipping thru his fingers, the adjustment would have been negligible - if Jones hadn't put himself in a position where it was impossible to do so. (2) The maximum blame left for Taylor comes (a) if you assume it was a front pylon route, which puts his pass slightly inside where it should be, which I do, (b) if you think Zay's natural expectation would be to look for the ball on the outside - which is probably fair, and ( c) if you think Taylor's leading the play inside wasn't for cause. Assume all three, and you get to 70-30, Jones/Taylor But it sure looked like it was for cause. Where Jones was expecting the ball would have led right into coverage and then out of bounds. Where Taylor put the ball was away from coverage, into open space and towards the endzone. I think he was throwing to a clear spot and expected Jones to adjust. That would have been automatic with Watkins; Jones was just a little too inexperienced.