Zerovoltz

.........We (the Chiefs) were down 10 into the 4th quarter at Denver, and we were the first team to win under those circumstances in 65 games there......he sucks. He threw 2 INTS vs JAcksonville AFTER we were up 30-7. ...and he threw 2 in New England, and we still hung 40 on them.... People have figure him out...YES, they have...you have to get pressure on him with your front 4, and give him confusing looks AND then you still need 35 points or more anyway because he rolls out of the pressure etc and makes long accurate throws anyway. ...He sucks... Alex Smith had the SAME weapons last year....except Watkins...the decoy....Smith is gone because he couldn't do what Mahomes is doing with the same talent around him. ....I would ask you NH fan....what would you need to see Mahomes do before you were impressed because leading the NFL in TD, QBR, with road wins at the Chargers, at the Broncos and at the Steelers and agains the no.1 defesne...hasn't impressed you so far.

I would point back to the QBR rating that many on this thread are refering to...takes into account the situation, personel etc to produce a rating. Josh Allens rating is not good. ....in Allen's sort of defense... pouring over the numbers, Allen does have a rather high Air Yards Per attempt. You couple this with is leauge high(worst) time to throw and it tells you the kid is sitting back there too long waiting to throw downfield....wich even for someone with as big an arm as his....is not optimal because his completion pct on such throws is POOR. ....this does coralate with his college days when he would do pretty much the same thing. This further points to some of the obvious flaws pointed out throughout the thread that Allen can't read defenses and make the right throw........I almost wouldn't say he "can't" read a defense...I'd almost contend he doesn't bother to try...he seems to want to look deep (the long time to throw) and throw deep (the long air yards per attempt) but those are low pct throws and he tries to make them more often than he should. Some have pointed out that there have been some designed plays, quick slants etc that he hesitates to attempt despite the play design.....the numbers all bear this out. I don't hide that I am an Allen doubter, but I don't think it's impossible that he could develop. A starting point for the coaches would be to emphasize short high pct throws. (another argument entirely since some of his short stuff is wild looking) ..but they need to continue to call some of those slants etc like they have done already, and tell the kid to execute that play as it is drawn. If that Comp % is ever going to get up to an acceptable level, he has got to become proficient at the quick read/short passing game.

LOL LOL.....you do realize, even after losing to the Patriots, the Chiefs are still all alone in first place in the AFC at 5-1.....with road wins over the Broncos, Chargers and Steelers....with head to head tie breakers on the Chargers, Steelers, and Jaguars to boot? ....we get Cincinatti at home this week and the only other real threat in the AFC, the Ravens, also visit KC later this year. We are the 2 seed at worst. We've also only been at home twice this year, and now finaly get to the somewhat easier part of what is overall, a very difficult schedule. Defenses have already figured out Mahomes..you have to get pressure on him in a hurry and give him unusual looks...Denver and New England did all you can possibly do on an NFL field to get to the guy...he ended up adjusting to THEM at halftime....becoming the first QB to WIN in Denver in 65 games when trailing there by 10 or more in the 4th quarter...and he hung 40 on the Patriots and everything they had after a bad first half.....it's tough to have succeeded in figuring a guy out, get him running for his life and he STILL has the ability to throw ropes 30 yards downfield anyway.....good luck with that. I can live with an INT or two if he ends up extending 5 or 6 other drives etc because he difficult to stop...the trade off is worth the risk. Finaly....someone getting hurt...going into the NE game...lost starting RG...then lost starting C during the game...missing Eric Berry all year...and for this game also missing Justin Houston...not as big a deal as losing Hill or Kelce would be..but the only thing this D does well is rush the passer from the edge with Houston and Ford..if you only have the one...then he gets double teamed. He may end up with 15 INTs.....and 40 or more TD's....sign me up.

Nothing against your point here....just a personal quest of mine to get people to reconsider using the QBR stat instead of "Passer Rating" Passer rating is poor stat for determining the effectiveness of the QB because that stat takes all yards, turnovers etc and counts them equally. A completion of 5 yards on 3rd and 14 is a poor football play, but passer rating takes it as a completion, 5 yards gained, etc. An interception in the red zone at the end of the 1st half is a poor play, but if you threw that from the 50 as time expired, taking a hail mary shot before the half, that interception isn't a poor play, it's a throw away lottery ticket at 6....but passer rating considers that to be just as bad as an interception in the red zone, down by 4 with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter. QBR isn't perfect, but it takes these sorts of things into consideration and gives a more accurate reflection of what your QB is doing. 1 Patrick Mahomes, KC 84.9 2 Drew Brees, NO 79.0 3 Jared Goff, LAR 78.7 4 Philip Rivers, LAC 78.2 5 Ryan Fitzpatrick, TB 75.4 6 Tom Brady, NE 72.0 7 Kirk Cousins, MIN 70.2 8 Matt Ryan, ATL 68.4 9 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 67.5 10 Andy Dalton, CIN 62.3 11 Mitchell Trubisky, CHI 62.3 12 Carson Wentz, PHI 59.9 13 Joe Flacco, BAL 57.3 14 Andrew Luck, 56.2 15 Aaron Rodgers, GB 55.9 16 Deshaun Watson, HOU 55.0 17 Blake Bortles, JAX 54.3 18 Cam Newton, CAR 53.8 19 Dak Prescott, DAL 51.5 20 Matthew Stafford, DET 51.4 21 Marcus Mariota, TEN 50.4 22 Alex Smith, WSH 49.9 23 Baker Mayfield, CLE 49.1 24 Russell Wilson, SEA 47.7 25 Sam Darnold, NYJ 44.7 26 Derek Carr, OAK 43.8 27 Eli Manning, NYG 41.4 28 C.J. Beathard, SF 40.6 29 Case Keenum, DEN 38.8 30 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 33.6 31 Josh Allen, BUF 32 Jimmy Garoppolo, SF 29.5 33 Tyrod Taylor, CLE 29.1

Frankly, Ragland is rendered completely useless on our defense....he needs to be clean and our D line of nobodies, don't require doubleteams and can't shed blockers...offesnive linemen consistantly get to the second level and Ragland gets swallowed up in that...and since he can't cover....he is a liability at this point. He'd be a better fit on a team that has good D line...and that isn't KC. If you want to call Watkins a decoy in this offesne..I can live with that..he isn't going to be the no.1 or 2 target guy here....that is clearly hill and Kelce. If you saw Hill miss time due to injury, I would suspect an uptick in Watkins numbers, but not 16 Million dollars worth.

Watson = Vince young

Watching here in Texas....really impressed with the defense. Solid solid unit

This argument doesn’t work all that well because an Andy Reid coached Alex Smith with virtually the same weapons etc, could do things Mahomes does. Mahomes of course benefits from the situation he is in but the Chiefs, Reid etc are benefitting from Mahomes too. If anyone could walk into the situation in KC and be great, we would still have Smith. There is more to it. You aren’t paying attention if you think Mahomes is another DAK.

Kansas City has outscored oponents 59-9 in the first quarter. The other team has started with the ball all five games. KC is no.1 in the NFL in third down efficiency in D and top 10 in sacks. The D isn’t good but it isn’t bad and it’s been good when the games outcome is still in question. We’ve also played the Chargers and Steelers on the road, two of the better offenses in the NFL.

You’ve completely missed the point of going to London. Has ZERO to do with the market in Jaxonville. The nfl isn’t going to care if that market has 15% less people watch an NFL game on Sunday. Drops of water in an ocean. The London Market means millions in potential tv rights. You put a team in Toronto, they likely become the national team of rooting interest to that whole country and thus, millions more TV revenue. Same with Mexico City. (By the way, the per capita income, standard of living etc in Mexico City is higher than the rest of the country and nearly on par with your average US city). Having a team in JAX or not, doesn’t matter in all this. The owners stand to make a TON of money on TV contracts by expanding to international markets. They don’t even need to expand. Jax moves to London, Buffalo or The Chargers move to Toronto. Same number of teams, whose owners get to split up a much much larger TV contract pie.

Carr HAS definitely fallen....I thought his rookie year, he was going to be a really good QB for a long time.. (wich as a Chiefs fan, I was pissed about) ...so this is a fair point from John...I don't think Mahomes will have this problem....but it's plausible. Also...Carr just has not been the same at all since his major injury....and this stat below pretty much shows how far he has fallen off. #Raiders Derek Carr - red zone QBR by year (source: ESPN) 2014 - 96.9 2015 - 51.1 2016 - 41.7 2017 - 29.7 2018 - 14.8

While there are many US markets that would welcome them, the point of the move has more to do with the next TV contract.....so here is what I mean.....the US TV market is pretty well mature in that even in non NFL markets, the viewership is high...you don't gain a signifigant amount of new viewers by putting a team in....San Antonio...those people are already watching NFL games on TV.....that is why any further moves or expansion will be in international markets.....If you expand to San Antonio, Portland, Oklahoma City and Salt Lake City....you don't really add TV viewers...but the owners end up having to split the same TV contract with 4 additonal teams....they don't want to....they need to add more eyes in other markets to grow the TV money...Jax isn't a problem of being or not being a viable market...that isn't the problem...it's as vaible as any other domestic market....Adding London to the TV mix along with Toronto and Mexico City (or some new market with new eyes) gets the owners a bunch of new TV viewers wich means more TV money...that is what this is about.

....Judgement has been passed based on his work in college and at the combine. Many of the doubters (including me) look at his production in college and judge that to translate to poor NFL QB. The supporters (the coach and front office included) have looked at the test scores, the physical traits, the combine measurables and judged him to translate to future franchise QB. I am sure you are refering to his NFL body of work...and that is fair, but there is alot of work out there already to analyze and draw an opinion from.... It is a fair point to give the kid this whole year to see what you have....and it's a legit point to see what he does when you assume that the roster around him will be considerably upgraded next season. It was the plan the whole time...it's worth follow through on.

Couple of thoughts here. KC has outscored the other team 59-9 in the first quarter this year. In all 5 games, the other team had the ball first. Denver Hadn't lost a home game with a lead of 10 or more in the 4th quarter until KC did it a couple weeks ago. Jacksonville hadn't allowed a first half TD this year until they played KC Jacksonville hadn't allowed a 300 yard passer in their last 15 games until KC did it. (That includes their win over the PATS) Jacksonville had never trailed in any game this season by more than 3 points until KC. If KC wins this game they will have 2 game or better leads on New England, Jacksonville, and Pitsburgh, WITH tiebreakers head to head on all three, for 1st in the AFC.

I'm not going to tell your the Chiefs D is "good"....but they aren't nearly as bad as their yardage totals indicate. We have outscored teams 59-9 in the first quarter this year..(that is with the other team starting the game with the ball ALL 5 games so far)..teams have had to play catch up to us/we blow them out....lot's and lots of garbage yards in that total.

The Jimmy G who was barely winning games, and threw 7TD and 5 pics in those 5 games? That guy? LOL. I don't suspect many of you have had many chances to watch Mahomes play..the guy from twitter isn't wrong about what he says about Mahomes game. He is accurate from anywhere on the field moving left or right...AND, he is just isn't phased by pressure. He never stops looking downfield. You may find my thoughts on this to be biased...and thats fair....but go watch some film/games/etc.....I'm not trying to portray him as something that you can't see when you look for yourself.

little late but also, Congratulations Bills fans for the win today.....you knocked me out of my eliminator pool so thanks for that.

Yav....It was Mahomes worst game of the season...and if you are going to quote box scores, that's fine...the box score is what it says it is....but by the time the Chiefs had gotten out to a 23-0 lead, Mahomes had been great....making plays to extend drives...LONG drives. Kelce dropped a TD and it didn't matter. Mahomes was never going to make it through the season with no INTS....he was playing in poor weather, the first iNT...(both ints came after the game was well in hand) was one where the ball slipped out of his hand has he was throwing....the other one was finaly, a poor decision. ......He played a very good overall game, especially when the outcome hadn't been decided, and completely rendered the No.1 Defense impotent. Just stop man.....Mahomes is good. you were wrong. retreat and live to fight another battle on a differnt hill. You lost this one.

Ol dirty......I highlighted the word Percieved in my post....I used that word intentionally to try and distinguish between reality and perception. I agree Darnold is playing like garbage, and it is entirely possible he should be sitting as well.....I continue to think the perception at this time is that Darnold will get up to speed by taking lumps, and that the perception is that Allen will have his career ended by taking lumps because he isn't as developed.....or at minimum, he didn't see anywhere near enough quality reps in college and would benefit from quality practice reps. I do think Allen is the kind of prospect you CAN ruin by doing exactly what the Bills are doing with him now. That's why I put out the three year statement. IF you ruin Allen, you are starting over...AGAIN....and normally that is bad enough, but keep in mind that after 2020, there is going to be a labor issue, and the ownership may be inclined to just go status quo with the staff, FO, even Allen until that labor situation is settled.

......These numbers are HEAVILY skewed by the 49ers game where Mahomes went right 14 times and left only once. He's been balanced in the other games. Good luck with thinking his tendancy is going right.....he goes where the best chance to complete the pass is.

Members 180 290 posts Report post Posted June 29 (edited) My worthless 2 cents. I think it will be Peterman. ....it could be McCaron, but the important thing here is that the question being asked should be Allen or someone else. The someone else part doens't really matter what their name is or who they are. Some of you posting here have mentioned that Allen was drafted, knowing that there will need to be some time to develop. that has not changed. he's been mostly running with the 3's. He's also lived up to his scouting report. Big arm, athletic. smart. looks like the god of QB's in a no pressure practice type situation (like he always has) I'd venture to say that at some point in the season he will start, but not game one...here is why: 1. The Bills opening 8 games are so are brutal. Let one of your low dollar, not in the future plans, scrub QB's take those hits and losses. No need to expose Allen to the brutal speed and harshness of the NFL over these first 8 games. 2. The Bills offensive roster isn't very good. I'm not a Bills fan as you all know....just objectively looking at your roster on the offensive side of the ball...it's frankly pretty bad. Again, let the other QB's come in and have to work with this less than optimal talent level to start with. Perhaps after 8 games, the talent level won't be much better but at least there will have been some time for the O-line to develop some cohesiveness and maybe some guys emerge here and there. 3. There should be no illusions that this is a playoff team, and certainly not a contender at this point. Let the other QB's take the wrath of the fans and media while Allen remains the golden boy in waiting, the great hope of the future, unstained by what will probalby be a pretty miserable opening to the season. Bring him in when the fans and media no longer are clinging to any hope that this team is has any realistic post season asperiations.....Then the focus can be on watching Allen and seeing how he does game to game..hopefully finding tangible evidence of improvment until the end of the season....giving you something to be hopeful about in 2019 when they can also spend to improve his weaponry, his o line...another draft...etc. You all like to point at "the process". Starting week 1 would be kind of anti process. sacrifice Peterman and McCaron so that Allen can have the best shot at sustained success (if he is ever to have it) Week 1. Someone not named Josh Allen. Edited June 29 by Zerovotlz

....I don't know if this is the answer or not...but I think it was/is perceived and continues to be thought, that Darnold was a fairly NFL ready product coming out of college....that isn't the same as a GOOD QB.....but that his foundational skills, technique, reps taken, playing against high level competition....he'd been exposed to a lot of that in college and that his next steps developing would be from taking reps on the NFL field, getting used to the speed of that game, faster players and all that.....in other words, Yes, Darnold isn't playing well, but again, the idea is that his development toward playing well will come from NFL reps. There isn't anything left for him to do on a bench. That isn't the percieved case with Allen (and I've said it all over this board when making the argument for him to be sitting) ....I'll say it again. Allen was always going to be a project...the rare guy coming out of college who would actually benefit by being on the bench, practicing, improving his technique, learning to read a defesne, getting used to the speed of the game. HE DIDNT GET ANY OF THIS IN COLLEGE like the other prospects did. As mentioned several times prior....Knowing your roster is poor on offense...knowing it's going to be a lost year while you wait to get out of cap hell...AND coming off an unexpected playoff birth, thus giving your coaching staff a big credibility boost....you had all the goodwill and support you'd need to withstand a throwaway season keeping Allen on the bench ALL YEAR to get him ready for next year, when you have money to spend, a high draft pick to spend on something good....etc. By failing to get a servicable QB body, the staff has already completely squandered the goodwill of the fans, and their playoff drought breaking credentials. If the Bills looked awful with Mike Glennon or someone like that at QB this year, you all would be upset, but halfway through the year, you'd all eventually reconcile your dissapointment with the hope that the Staff that broke the drought knew waht they were doing, that Allen was a project that needed time and that 2019 was really going to be a fun and hopeful time to look forward to. Now, if Allen doesn't show improvement, etc....you go into 2019 with some wondering if you need to look at QB again, need a new staff again, if anyone will want to come to Buffalo to play. To summarized. Allen on bench for 2018 = Hope for 2019, excitement to see Allens progress, excitement for the free agent and draft aquisitions. Hope abounds. Allen on field for 2018 = Doubt about the competancy of the staff. Doubt about talent evaluation. And if Allen shows no progress, then doubt about the QB situation, doubt that any good FA will want to show up for a team that might need to start over at QB and (by default) with yet another FO. Basically, the entire 3 year future of the franchise now rides ENTIRELY on what Josh Allen does with the rest of this season.

Titans 16 Bills 6. I went with the Titans in my eliminator pool thinking this is the only time all season I’ll have any confidence in them to win. Bills will probably ruin it for me ?

I saw some of your thougtht in the above threads....you've been entirely consistant throughout this whole thing....my hats off to you sir for sticking to your guns.

Just a counter to the Fire whoever passed on Mahomes thread....just pointing out the vast majority of the fanbase wanted to trade out and pass on Mahomes.