Zerovoltz

IF Tebow were accurate he would be a star.....that's the thing that bothers me...No one could make Tebow more accurate...he didn't have it in him...and he had Baby Hoodie coaching him. Improving accuracy is not a given...it's much more likely that it doesn't improve.....If you could take a guy whose problem is accuracy and fix it....then guys like Lamar Jackson and Mike Vick would have been all time greats.

Let me try this AGAIN. I like ALLEN. I am amused, intrigued...what have you....that so many of you are quick to look at Allens accuracy is some minor detail that just needs cleaned up. My point is that accuracy is a MAJOR component of a QB's game...perhaps the most important part. I hope he does. I harbor no ill will toward teh Bills, the players, the fans etc. I think I were a Bills fan, I would be very cautiously optimistic about Allen....because of the accuracy and not just casually throwing out statements like "with a little more time, his accuracy will be better" If he just had a few better pieces, his accuaracy will be better....etc.

No. My name is gary. I am not magic.

Of course you do! Cam is a career 60 PCT passer thus far ....although having an above career year in that stat so far this season. .....if you get ALLEN to 60, 61, 62...You will have WON that draft pick. (also assuing the INTS are limited to something reasonable) He isn't there yet...and 60 would be a remarkable improvement over his college numbers....

Both big build, good runners, charismatic, winners, scouting reports concered about accuracy at pro level. Completion PCT, TD's INTS, comparable...Allen better comp % by a little bit...but Tebow more TD and less INTS ....still pretty close. Both had very good defenses to help them. Allen certainly has the better raw arm.

No...they would appear to have quite a bit in common at this point. What is an acceptable completion PCT for Allen?

Its not unreasonable. Which part of that comparison doesn't match up in your opinion?

I think some of you are taking my comments the wrong way. I'm not saying Allen is bad etc...I like the guy...he is fun to watch. All I am taking issue with is that many on this board use phrases like "he just needs to fix his accuracy" and he's a star. ....It's almost like it's a forgone conclusion here that Allen is going to improve his accuracy because it's a matter of just doing it.....I think that is A LOT to assume.....it's the whole reason he wasn't some Andrew Luck type prospect....you can't just wish it away. I hope he does improve....He's an intriguing prospect....a great gamble by the Bills to see if in fact the accuracy can be increased...

You have me confused with someone else. I have NEVER EVER said anything about Peterman being good, ok, etc.

I agree Allen is very talented. Great build...great athlete...great runner...super strong arm...leader...etc....he isn't accurate. He never has been. This isn't some brilliant observation on my part....all I am saying is that accuracy is the toughest skill to have, to improve, to work on....it's just odd to me, that so many poeple think this is an "easy" fix..."just" need to fix his accuracy. he "just" needs some better supporting cast (even though others seem to be able to perform with this group)

The QB's you quoted earlier especially Montana....had like 20 attempts his first year... ....anyhow...Steve Young was 65 % passer in college. He was a 65% passer in the pros. Aikman was a 63% passer in College and a 61% passer in the pros. Trubisky was a 67% completion thrower in college.....I don't understand your point...All these guys were accurate passers who were also accurate in the pros...They all progressed (except Trubs who only played one year) while in college. They were the passers everyone thought they were. Allen is the passer everyone thought he was.

This would be a valid argument EXCEPT other lesser QB's have signifigantly better numbers throwing to the same guys.

I am all on board with the idea Allen is a rookie. WE all expect issues, problems...etc. What I would be worried about is the lack of progression in college....even at that level, pick any QB you want...there is almost always a couple pct point improvement year over year at that level as guys get used to the college game etc....Allen didn't show that....I've seen the argument he had a way better roster the year before his last college season.....I would worry about it if he gets to the end of this year with a sub 55% for the year. That isn't getting it done in this era.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. In the case of Flacco and Jackson, Flacco is completing just over 61 pct of his passes...that is right on what his career completion pct is.....and with the same folks Jackson is completing less. .....In Allens case...Barkley, Peterman and Anderson have all completed at a higher rate then Allen....with the same people. How many more points of completion pct do you suppose Allen can achieve with a "better cast"? It's a question worth asking.

Yes...Jackson is completing passes at about the rate he did in College...it's not ideal, but it's in line with what he did in College....just like Allen. ...I have already pointed out that the other THREE QB who have played with the Bills this year, with the same guys and coaches etc...all have completed passes at a higher rate. At what point do you acknowledge that Allen isn't that accurate?

I know he is a rookie....I do think his pct will improve...I am not sure it ever improves enough to be a viable "franchise" QB. ....the idea that all you need to have him do is "just improve accuracy" is a funny statement to me...that isn't something that is easily done....and history shows it is highly unlikely it will ever improve very much. ...I'm just pointing out that many here seem to think that one day Allen is all of the sudden gong to go from a lifelong 50% passer to a 65% guy somehow...I just don't see how it is taken as something that WILL happen given enough time....etc....

....I don't care what system any of them came from......Allen struggles with his accuracy....it was a problem in HS, a problem at JUCO...a problem at Wyoming....The scouts pointed it out in multiple reports....this is who Allen is....He is what his stats and scouting reports say he is....inaccurate.

How long can you keep using the supporting cast as a crutch? Derek Anderson has a 60% completion rate with these guys. Matt Barkley has a 60% completion rate with these guys. Nathan Peterman........has a 54% completion pct with these guys....wich is higher than Allens.

No he didn't John....Mahomes was a 63% completion passer in his college career. The issues coming out were that he had poor footwork and would try too hard to improvise at times leading to poor choices. ....Not sure what you mean about Mahomes being pressured. He's performed well under pressure or not.

I see this same though ALL over this board. As if fixing accuracy is just some forgone conclusion or that it is inevitable or easy. This is the entire reason why scouts questioned him as a round 1 prospect...it's what TEBOW never could do and it was the one thing holding him back as well. No one could "Fix" this in HS, or JUCO, or at Wyoming....Lamar Jackson is completing passes at a higher pct, with fewer turnovers, and his running ability is as good or better than Allens. Jackson wasn't considered a good prospect for Accuracy as well.

He will get a second chance somewhere....he was already in counciling before being cut....the Chiefs have requested the NFL continue providing him with counseling. He is 23, very talented and has an oppertunitiy to EARN a second chance with someone. He specifically told the Chiefs he never left his hotel room MULTIPLE times. He lied to them straight up. That is why he was cut. I'd be willing to make a small wager that he is claimed by the Eagles before the deadline expires monday. He made several poor choices that day...alcohol with underage females..confronting said females...not calling security to get them out of his hotel/appartment, not having his "crew" keep him out of the spotlight and handling this and making it go away with him out of the picture...etc etc....and then, lying about it to the team. He would NOT be cut if he had just said what he did. The team would have used every resource it had to rehab the guy, and protect him. If I were the Bills....I would study it closely for sure......he IS going to play again...and it could be in a Bills uniform....

Hey Folks! .....Allow me if you will to give a Chiefs fan view of all of this. 1. The folks at Chiefs Planet.....are unfortunately like the unwashed masses of Chiefs fans....I am ashamed to admit that we have a LOT of ignorant fans...both in terms of issues like this and in comprehending and being able to intelligently discuss football....we have two extremes in KC...some really really smart, intelligent writers and national personalities that write and talk Chiefs....from KC....some of the best stuff....so it's a shame we have so many ignorant fans....but we do...I wouldn't think you'd find a whole lot of well thought out discussion over there. I don't post there, but the facebook group I do post on, is just every bit as full of low IQ idiots as anywhere else. If you search my posts here, I have complimented the folks on this board for making this place a really great place to talk football, even though I am a Chiefs fan....I continue to enjoy my interactions here....this board really has some solid members. 2. In KC, when Tyreek Hill was drafted, that was NOT a popular draft pick. The team, and specifically, Andy Ried had to address the media and fans about how he vetted Hill, and how he believed Hill would be a good citizen and good representative of the team. Hill had plead guilty, was sentenced in court, kicked off of the OK State football team, and finished up his college career at a small school. KC expended A TON of the good will Ried had built up in the community when they took Hill. To his credit thus far, Hill has been a good citzen, and there was a well recieved story on local TV news about Hill getting engaged to the woman who he had assaulted back in college, the mother of his son, and how HIll is doing well as a father also. Hill, so far, has taken advantage of the second chance he got here. His act of choking and punching his then pregant girlfreind is AWFUL. But he didn't lie about it..has been forthcoming to the team and behaved well. Hunt lied to the team about his incident. I think the team would have worked through this with him had he come out and said back in February that he was drunk and made mistakes. He didn't and they cut him..... 3. Try and remember that only a few years before, we had LB Jovan Belcher, murder his girlfriend (the mother of his daughter) then drive to Arrowhead and shoot himself in the head in the parking lot. Before that, we had Larry Johnson, who at the time reportedly, and has since admitted to, committing egregious acts of assault on women....Johnson, repentant and seemingly sorry for his past ways, and seemingly living a better life now....even came in to speak to the Chiefs about staying out of exactly this kind of trouble...there are even tweets from him about this specifically. The Chiefs can not and did not want to become a place known as a haven for domestic abusers....They've been burned before, and they had no more goodwill to expend on this kind of thing after putting their collective necks out there for Tyreek Hill. (a move that has paid off for all parties so far.) 4. As far as football goes. I won't sit here and tell you that Hunt isn't a good football player...he is very good. Phyical, but good at catching passes and running routes...does not fumble. very productive. clearly from a football standpoint, it is a substantial loss. I would say that if you are Kansas City, if you have to lose someone, one of the less painful losses would be to lose the RB Hunt. It's a QB driven leauge...it's Andy Ried...we still have Spencer Ware...who if he hadn't gotten hurt in 2017, we might not know who Hunt even is...Ware was the starter in 2016 and was really coming on...he's still had a role this year and had looked capable when called on. He isn't Hunt, but obviously, he'll have to do. Now...as I said...as the way the team is setup and with who have at QB and who the coach is...Pat Mahomes is the one guy we can't afford to lose...not the RB. I can't spin this any way as good from a football standpoint....I'm just saying of all the cogs in the machine Hunt is a bit easier to replace than say Kelce (we have no TE close to his skill set on the roster) or Hill (again, no one who can do what he does) 5. My thoughts on the actual incident....to me, this isn't quite the same as Ray Rice, or Tyreek Hill for that matter....it looks like a bunch of young immature people under the influence of alchol making poor choices. I'm sure this scene plays out all accross the country with non celebrities and it isn't really considered "domestic violence" but just dump young people getting stupid. ...that said...Hunt made several poor choices here prior to the actual incident. Lots of drinking with underage females. Didn't call hotel security or cops to have them removed, didn't stay in the room, close the door, etc....didn't have smart enough crew to keep him away from trouble....all this after he had been counciled by the team to avoid these situations.....and then he LIED about it. I think he'd still be on the team if he would have just said...hey, I am a dumbass, this is what I did. ....lastly....thankfully we play the Raiders in OAKLAND this week...I can't think of a better opponent to be playing AWAY FROM KC, after something like this....a road win will do the team a lot of good. and lastly lastly....KC will not be going after LeVeon Bell even if you hear a bunch of dumbass fans of ours clammoring for that.....we have a long history here of showing that we can put productive RB on the field with late round draft picks and bargain bin FA etc...Bell isn't in our future....they aren't spending that kind of money at that position. It's not happening, nor should it. That also includes trading for Shady....not happening.

It’s a counter point to the argument Josh Allen would be posting Mahomes numbers if he were in KC and that he’d be doing so because of the “great” line and the great supporting cast. i would agree Allen would look better in KC but nothing close to Mahomes and probably not all that much different than he looks now. At some point the elephant ? in the room (completion pct) has to improve markedly or the kid won’t last long term.

You traded the QB who won enough to break the drought. Tim Tebow and Lamar Jackson approve of this message These posts suggesting that just anyone would be lighting it up for KC continue to permeate this board. Alex Smith couldn’t sniff what Mahomes has done with the same roster. Keep in in mind KC is averaging ONE more pass attempt per game and ONE less rush attempt per game compared to last year. Mahomes has been that much better running the offense. And keep in mind we are on our 3rd center and 3rd RG, and all three of the C, LG and RG are castoffs from......Cleveland. Mahomes hasn’t had these great clean pockets to stand in....far from it.

Is it really? Matt Barkley just walked through door and completed 60% of his throws to the same guys. It’s not some big leap when you compare the two. Tebow was big, he could run very well. He was charismatic. He won a playoff game in which he completed 2 passes. He had a career 47% completions pct. that doesn’t work in the NFL. He even threw 17 TD against 9 INT. Im sure that isn’t a comparison anyone in Buffalo wants to consider, but the numbers are comparable. The athletes measuables are comparable. The development challenges as prospects are comparable. Its only a horrible take if it strikes a nerve about what Allen may be but not because it isn’t reasonable to compare these two similar QBs at this stage in Allen’s career.