SoTier

Mea culpa. I transposed the rushing yards with the passing yards in the Philly game. I don't hate Allen, and I'm not rooting for him to fail but he's in a tough spot because how far he has to come from where he was when he was drafted to where he needs to be to be considered a good NFL starter is irrelevant. So is the lack of talent around him or any other excuse for McDermott and Beane's mismanagement of the QB situation since he was drafted. He has to reach that minimal level, and his progress has been slow.

Allen has to show he's good by the end of this season irrespective of the quality of his teammates on the defense and irrespective of whether the team wins or loses. Arizona is a crappy team, but Kyler Murray has been showing what he can do despite the Cards' shortcomings as a team. Matthew Stafford has been a star for years despite the Lions' perpetual mediocrity. The same with Kirk Cousins who starred in Washington despite the team around him -- and is now showing he's the real deal in Minnesota. If Allen can't show that he's better than the team around him, then he's probably a Flacco or Dalton level QB who can win with the right support but isn't going to become the great QB Bills fans have been dreaming of. Nobody is "rooting" for Allen to fail. Those of us who are critical of Allen just don't blindly pretend that the emperor is wearing a wonderful suit of clothes when we can plainly see that he's strutting around in his boxers just because he's "our" emperor.

Among others ... Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Amari Cooper, Courtland Sutton, Tyler Lockett, DJ Chark, TY Hilton etc.

Your premise is false. Nobody has claimed that Allen hasn't made progress. Posters have been critical of Allen for the mistakes he's made. Critics have questioned if he's made enough progress because he's going to be compared with guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, etc. without excuses. Like all the Allen fanboys were MIA the last couple of weeks? Bull manure. QBs don't take multiple seasons to demonstrate that they're great. Except for a few QBs in unique situations or who suffer injury (Brees, Smth, Rodgers, Stafford), good QBs show their stuff by the end of their second season as starters. A QB's first two seasons as a starter is when he makes his biggest strides. After that, his improvement is limited and mostly incremental and subtle even for the great ones. No QB in the last two decades who has been a poor/mediocre QB for his first two years as a starter has suddenly turned into a great one in his third season. These QBs all demonstrated their greatness early on. Most were good as first year starters and improved even more as second year starters: Ben Roethlisberger took the Steelers to the playoffs as a rookie and a Super Bowl win as a sophomore. Andrew Luck took the Colts to the playoffs every year he played most of the season, including his rookie season. Russell Wilson took the Seahawks to the NFC Championship game as a rookie and a Super Bowl win as a sophomore. Carson Wentz was the leading candidate for the 2017 MVP as a sophomore when he was injured. DeShaun Watson lit up the league as a rookie before an injury cut his season short, and led the Texans to the playoffs as a sophomore. Patrick Mahomes played 1 game as a rookie, and then won the league MVP with 50 TDs as a sophomore. Lamarr Jackson took the Ravens to the playoffs as a rookie, and this year he's a leading candidate for league MVP. Allen has not been "playing better and better", and claiming that he has is doing so is simply denying reality. Yesterday was only the second game since the bye that Allen threw for more than 200 yards. Against the Eagles, Allen didn't even throw for 100 yards. While Allen threw for 260+ yards against Cleveland, he played tentatively and failed, once again, to hit any downfield passes. Moreover, the Fins are a very poor team despite their scrappiness. If Allen can play as well against the next five games -- Broncos, Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers, and Patriots -- all teams with good or great defenses -- then we can say he's proving he's "that guy". Given the lack of talent around him, though, it's more likely that we may be encouraged by his progress but not confident he's likely to be a franchise QB, so it will be imperative that the Bills significantly upgrade the offense around him, especially getting him a bonafide veteran WR1 whether they take a WR in the draft or not.

The offensive talent that's been added in 2019 is not even close to the offensive talent that was on the team in 2016, and only a single instance of the loss of talent was due injury (Eric Wood). Essentially, McDermott and Beane shed decent/good/outstanding NFL offensive talent and replaced it with non-NFL caliber/mediocre/decent talent. IMO, the lack of talent combined with the emphasis on passing rather than rushing, spells doom for Josh Allen. It makes no sense to try to run a passing offense with a young, raw QB who needs to improve his passing fundamentals as well as learn the nuances of the pro game. He's not good enough at this point to make this kind of offense work, especially with the limited talent around him. At the very least he needs a WR1 which he doesn't have. I agree about the definition of "garbage time". It's a very convenient way to diss QBs that posters don't like. In today's NFL, teams can be down 3 or 4 scores going into the 4th quarter and still win games. It happens almost every week, and sometimes spectacularly like in the Patriots-Falcons Super Bowl. When the Bills released Shady to roll with Singletary, Gore, and Yeldon, I said that the Bills running game would go down the toilet and result in offensive struggles, and I was attacked for being a "negative Nancy" and a "hater". As it turned out, the Bills "braintrust" didn't want to pay McCoy because they planned on emphasizing passing over rushing ... but not smart enough to realize/recognize how invaluable Shady can be in a passing offense as he's perfectly capable of turning a 4 yard check down or a screen pass into a big gainer. None of the RBs currently on the roster seem capable of doing that. They spent a fortune in draft capital and talent in order to draft a project QB because they are clueless about offense. McDermott/Beane fans become indignant when I write that but here's why I say that ... Allen has no passing assets except his "Rocket arm". He's not accurate. He doesn't have good mechanics. That he can run is a bonus but he's not a RB; he needs to be able to pass and pass well. He was just not a good prospect. Allen would have benefited from sitting for a year like Mahomes, but because McDermott picked Peterman and sent McCarron packing, he was thrown to the wolves more early on. The Bills did not bother to hire a competent, experienced QB coach to actually teach Allen the fundamentals until this season. Nothing says offensive incompetence than this. The Bills put Allen out on the field behind a non NFL caliber OL and without a functional receiving corps in 2017, and while both units have been improved this season they are no where near being more than mediocre. The Bills didn't draft a top WR nor did they trade for a WR1 even though several were available both before or during the season. Moreover, they didn't put in a claim on Josh Gordon who was good enough for the much more talented Seahawks to grab. They released Shady McCoy, the one player on the preseason roster who could be considered a "game changer", to keep Gore, Yeldon, and Singletary. My guess is that drafting Allen was done because the Bills decided that they were going to draft a QB in 2018, and he was the one they settled on even if he wasn't a particularly outstanding prospect. It's what the McDermott/Beane regime does. They decide they need a certain position filled, so they go out and fill that position, even if they have to trade up to take a lesser prospect who's a project. Jones, Dawkins, Allen, Edmunds, and Ford all seem to fill that model.

Then, if your team is smart, they take DeShaun Watson, so it still works. What doesn''t work is your team trading out of the #10 slot when there are two bonafide top QBs are available and they need a franchise QB in order to take a DB because they let their top DB walk away in free agency.

What a load of bull manure!!! The Bills have essentially wasted the first two years of Allen's career because they haven't devoted enough resources to helping him succeed!!! Do you understand that THEY DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO HIRE A COMPETENT, EXPERIENCED QB COACH FOR ALLEN IN 2018??? David Culley might be a decent assistant coach at various positions -- he was McDermott's buddy apparently -- but he had no experience as a QB coach except for 1 year in a small time college program back in the 1980s. That, sir, was stupid, clueless, and totally indefensible. McDermott and Beane gave Allen a bit more to work with in 2019, including getting around to actually hiring a competent QB coach, albeit another McDermott pal from Carolina. They've given Allen 2 decent WRs, which is 2 more than he had as a rookie, but neither one is a #1, and the other WRs and veteran TEs are, at best STers. Rookie Dawson Knox looks promising but young receivers take time to develop. His OL is mediocre at pass blocking but it appears to be better at run blocking. Of course, we don't know if that's really true because the Bills don't commit to the run, even though a strong running game has been proven over and over again is a young QB's best friend, whether he's a coveted first rounder or an UDFA, and Devon Singletary has looked good when he's gotten opportunities. The Bills couild have done more for Allen but didn't. Four quality WRs were available in trades that they didn't land for one reason or another. Of course, passing on Josh Gordon off waivers is, at best, disappointing. He would have cost the Bills nothing except a roster spot and some $$$. They also cut McCoy to keep Gore and Yeldon which seriously compromised short passing game, although they run so little that I suppose that McCoy would make no great difference in the running game. You can spout your "stay the course" and "trust the process" crap ad nauseum but McDermott and Beane's offense has sucked 3 years in a row now. They've repeatedly shed good or decent offensive players and replaced them with far inferior players, and then they spent a fortune on a first round project QB but thew him out there without decent coaching and without weapons. If you think this is how to build some kind of "sustainable" winning team, can I interest you in purchasing a well used but recently rehabbed bridge over Chautauqua Lake?

I agree. Coaches should be the ones teaching young players how to play the game, especially young QBs. Veterans playing the same position can and often do offer advice on how to respond to specific players or situations -- like "watch out for 67's spin move on third down" -- but that's not their job and shouldn't be expected. Moreover, peer mentoring doesn't work unless the vet and the young player bond -- and there's no guarantee that that's going to happen with any two people just because they play the same position. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, Dak Prescott, Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, and Lamar Jackson all say "Hi". None of these great/good QBs currently starting in the NFL were the first QBs taken in their draft classes. In fact, only Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson were first rounders, and only Mahomes was drafted in the top ten. Moreover UDFA Kyle Allen has not only filled in more than adequately for former #1 pick and former league MVP Cam Newton, he may have won the starting job with his far better than expected play this season that has the Panthers still contending for a playoff slot. Third rounder Jacoby Brissett has proven to be a solid starting QB for Indy following Andrew Luck's unexpected retirement in August, and the #32 pick in the 2014 draft, Teddy Bridgewater, filled in so well for Drew Brees that he's likely earned another shot at being a starter either in NO or elsewhere after coming back from a devastating knee injury that almost cost him his leg. Teams have to be smart enough to recognize talent and grab it when they get the chance. The Packers grabbed Rodges at #24 in 2005 despite having HOFer Brett Favre, and Andy Reid traded his 2018 first round pick to the Bills in order to grab Mahomes despite having the very capable (and former #1 pick) Alex Smith as his starter. The Bills for their part have essentially wasted the first 2 years of Allen's career because they haven't put enough talent around him to really help him succeed, and that includes coaching -- and that's part of the "culture" on the Bills. McDermott and Beane have put most of the Bills resources into the defensive side of the team and given mostly crumbs to the offense. Worse yet, McDermott/Beane's ineptitude as talent evaluators has resulted in them continually making poor choices in hiring coaches, signing/trading veterans, and drafting youngsters. You can see how FO talent trumps on field talent every Sunday (or Thursday or Monday, too).

Where in the draft would that be exactly??? Tom Brady was taken in the sixth round in 2000. Drew Brees was a second rounder (he would have been a late first rounder after the league expanded to 32 teams) in 2001. Ben Roethlisberger was taken at #11 in 2004. Aaron Rodgers was taken at #24 in 2005. Russell Wilson was taken in the third round in 2012. Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo were both taken in the second round in 2014. Dak Prescott in the fourth round in 2016. Patrick Mahomes was taken #10 and DeShaun Watson #12 in 2017. Lamar Jackson was taken #32 in 2018. That's a quarter of the starting QBs -- all of them are quality starters -- who were drafted at #10 or worse. Add in supersubs Teddy Bridgewater who was taken #32 in 2014 (who was a starter in Minnesota before a near-career ending injury), Jacoby Brissett who was taken in the third round in 2016 and has played well for the Colts, and UDFA Kyle Allen in Carolina. Meanwhile, 2014's #3 pick Blake Bortles is a backup; 2015's #1 and #2 picks, Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, are likely done as starters; and 2017's #3 pick Mitch Trubisky is struggling. None of the 2018 first round QBs taken before Lamar Jackson -- including #1 pick Baker Mayfield -- have played even half as well. A team doesn't have to tank to get a good QB. They have to be able to recognize talent and be bold enough to grab it when it falls into their laps.

I think all the players need to play fearlessly not just Allen. When you -- any NFL player -- are worried about making a mistake, you think about what you should do instead of reacting instinctively, and that makes you a fraction of a second slower, which can mean the difference between the success or failure of any play. More importantly, I think that the coaching staff has to coach fearlessly and come up with a game plan that takes into account players' strengths and weaknesses even if that game plan takes them out of their comfort zones. Just because Allen has a big arm doesn't mean that he has to throw the ball all the time. His failures as a passer since the NE game seem to be weighing on him. The Bills seem to have a decent run blocking OL and a nice young RB in Singletary. Let the RBs tote the rock, build their stats, eat up clock, and take the pressure off Allen so he can regain his self-confidence by succeeding rather pushing him to imitate Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes. He's not good enough at this point in his career to be expected to carry the team, and relying on a stout defense and good running game to support a young QB is a tried-and-true method of finding success for both QBs and teams like Brady and NE in 2001, Roethlisberger and Pitt in 2006, and Wilson and Seattle in 2013.

My first thought when I saw the thread title was pretty much this. This is all PR, however: "all sound and fury signifying nothing". It's not going to change how McDermott or his OC coaches.

McDermott coaches the same way in 2019 as he did in 2017, and that's more than enough Jauron Ball Part Deux for me.

This is what's troubling to me, too. He's lost his capacity to play "hero ball" -- his willingness to do whatever it takes to win football games -- since the NE game. Dead on. Allen shouldn't be playing "hero ball" all the time, but he's almost like a zombie out there now. Trying to be a game manager isn't his forte -- and the lack of elite talent around him on the offense makes it impossible for him to be successful. Game managers are only successful when they have great talent supporting them.

I have zero confidence that McDermott and Beane can build a competitive team, so unfortunately Allen doesn't have a chance either. If the current regime stays in place, the Bills will be stuck in the same rut of mediocrity that they've wallowed in over the last two decades, and the blame will undoubtedly fall on Allen for "not being good enough". Maybe he isn't, but I don't think we'll ever really know because offensive coaching and talent around him are mediocre.

No, the Bills were the first and only to team to "get the wool pulled over our eyes" because Wilson and Brandon were in a hurry to sign him before he "exploded" and would have been more expensive. Well, Fitzy exploded all right, just not the way that Wilson and Brandon thought he would. The other teams that signed Fitzy knew what they were getting but felt he was worth it. I'm sure that's how the Fins and their fans feel.

That he didn't bring in an experienced QB coach to mentor Allen last season underscores that point. You don't have to be a coaching genius to understand that if you draft a project QB who needs to fix a whole lot of passing issues, you better bring in somebody with more than one year of QB coaching experience thirty years ago. If the issue was that the Bills already had a "QB coach" then do a little "organizational realignment". If the issue was money -- that there wasn't money in the coaching budget to hire a good mentor -- then Beane is even more clueless than McDermott. No excuses for the way Allen was just thrown out there as a rookie to sink or swim.

I agree. They seem to hit on the lower picks and fail on the higher ones. My guess is that that outcome stems from McDermott/Beane always trading up to chase projects in the first two rounds, and none of them have worked out as well as expected. Zay Jones was a bust. Dion Dawkins is a JAG OT. Allen was easily the most flawed QB prospect taken in the first round, and his improvement has been modest. Edmunds has improved somewhat but he's maybe an average MLB. To put it plainly, Ford has struggled. Maybe McDermott and Beane should stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Just because you need help at a particular position doesn't mean that you can find the answer to that personnel issue in a particular draft. In the specialized world of the modern NFL, each position has its own specific skill set. Part of the problem with both Dawkins and Ford is that they both were projected to be OGs in the pros although they played OT in college. Moving collegiate OTs to OG when they come into the NFL is a very common practice since most colleges just play their best OLers at OT. As for Edmunds, he doesn't appear to have the natural instincts needed by a good/great MLB, but he might make a great OLB. In view of the success the Ravens have had by retooling their offense to take advantage of Lamar Jackson's skill set, maybe the Bills should reconsider trying to turn Allen into a game manager QB. It reminds me of Bills HC John Rauch trying to turn OJ Simpson into a pass catcher out of the backfield and making Simpson look like a bust. Thankfully, Lou Saban wasn't as stupid.

I have never been a McDermott fan, and that stems mostly from his similarities to Jauron. That he's a better HC than Jauron -- which would be hard not to be -- doesn't mean that they don't share the same philosophy on how to run a football team. Jauron's approach was a fail a decade ago, and I think that McDermott's approach is doomed in the current NFL.

Why did both have limited talent? Part of it comes from personnel decisions made higher up the food chain than GM or HC. The Bills just seemed to have a policy under Wilson that continued under Brandon that they didn't pay DBs, RBs or WRs. That's almost certainly why Gilmore, Woods, and Goodwin are playing on other teams because they were allowed to walk in FA when McDermott was only a few weeks after being hired. I would argue, though, that they had limited talent because they were not only willing to shed talented players who didn't fit their ideas of how they wanted players to be, but they were, at best, mediocre at assessing talent so their drafts weren't very productive, especially in the first and second round. In his four drafts, Jauron hit big on Marshawn Lynch. Donte Whitner was a good pick but he was probably drafted too high, and Bills fans never forgave him for that. Leodis McKelvin, taken in the top ten in 2008, was a bust for his draft position. Eric Wood was a good pick in 2009 but the Bills got that late first round pick for future All Pro LT Jason Peters, so it was an overall loss for team's talent level. The Bills own 2009 pick, #11, they wasted on an epic bust, Aaron Maybin. a tweener DE/LB who was too small and not agiile enough to be effective as the pass rusher he was drafted to be. Paul Posluszny from the second round in 2007 and Jairus Byrd and Andy Levitre from 2009's second round were solid performers and were all players who left in FA and found success. The second best player drafted in the Jauron era was Kyle Williams, a fifth rounder who developed into one of the best DTs in the league but it took him a while. The plain fact is that under Jauron, the Bills talent dropped significantly, so that the team that Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey inherited was so talent depleted, it was bareliy competitive even with NFL bottom feeders. Three years into the McDermott era, the Bills talent level isn't as good as it was before he was named HC. The list of numerous ex-Bills who exited after McDermott was hired and are contributing to winning teams starts with All Pro Stephon Gilmore. The list of outstanding players that McDermott drafted is very short: Tre White. Milano is decent. Allen and Edmunds are still question marks. Phillips is on IR. The top picks from the 2019 draft, Oliver and Ford, have been underwhelming. Singletary looks promising.

Buffalo was a pariah during this time by Ralph Wilson's actions. After the 2000 season, Wilson fired Wade Phillips in circumstances that resulted in Phillips suing the Bills for the rest of his salary under his contract and winning. In 2005, Wilson fired Tom Donahoe over reasons that remain unknown to the general public, and it seems that he blacklisted Donahoe who has never been hired except as a consultant by another NFL team despite the regular recycle of NFL execs with lesser resumes. Moreover, Wilson and his new protege, Russ Brandon, in charge, they successfully forced Mike Mularkey to resign without having to fire him. Marv Levy was never in charge of anything during his two years (2006-2007) as the Bills GM. He was a figurehead, and that was plain in the 2006 TC when he seemed to wander around chatting and shaking hands but having nothing else to do.

Let me count the ways ... McDermott plays not to lose just like Jauron. Conservative game calling and playing for a break to win on a late FG hasn't been a successful formula for winning in the NFL for a couple of decades at least. McDermott wants a bend not break defense and an offense that plays it safe so it doesn't lose the game. McDermott's clock management, especially at the end of first halves and games, is mediocre at best and frequently inept as it was at the end of the game Sunday. McDermott intersperses his usual conservative game plan with a series or two of stupidly aggressive calls. McDermott favors players who fit his narrow view of "character" over players with significantly more talent who may march to a different drummer. He doesn't seem to have much tolerance for differences. McDermott favors undersized defensive players. McDermott doesn't seem to understand or care about offense, underscored by his poor choice of offensive coaches and the lack of playmakers on the offense.

I think we're seeing the results of "the process" not waiting on them. When you have a play not to lose philosophy that emphasizes bend not break defense and limited risk offense executed by players that have a lot of try but not enough talent, you get a team that can usually beat bottom feeders but seldom better teams. This philosophy was popular a few decades ago, but in the current NFL with its rules that encourage scoring, it's a prescription for losing with regularity,

The Stillers D will feast on the Bills offense. They'll be lucky to avoid a shut out. When you consider that Pegula had to think about firing Phil Housley after the Sabres' ghastly collapse at the end of last season, it doesn't look likely even if they lose out. No. See above. And we all know that the Tennessee Titans are "genetically predisposed" to go 9-7. This ain't Adam Gase's run-for-the-bus Fins from 2018. They're playing above their talent -- and anything is possible with Fitzy when FitzMagic is flowing.

Who the hell hired Daboll????? When do you ask "Sean" to take responsibility for hiring 2 crappy OCs????

This is classic Jauron ball. See above. You don't "get the Jauron comparison" because you either don't remember his tenure with the Bills or you refuse to see what's been in front of your face for 2 and a half seasons. Excuse me, but who picked those players???? When you value "culture" over talent, what you get are "team guys" who aren't good enough to make clutch plays when the chips are down.