SoTier

Their franchise QB has been perpetually injured because he's been sacked/hit so much. Even franchise QBs need protection. It worked because Luck, like Aaron Rodgers, made up for many of the deficiencies on the team. The Colts still had some talent reserve left over from the Polian years, too, ... and the other teams in the AFCS mostly sucked. Virtually all that talent is long gone now, and the rest of the AFCS has improved. Exactly this. If Indy was still in the AFCE as it used to be, likely neither Peyton nor Luck could have gotten them into the playoffs ...

I think Jameis is a very good QB now, but I think his future improvement is probably limited by his temperament ... his gunslinger mentalitiy is part of who he is, and that's not something he can really change. Most QBs, even the best ones, tend to not make huge improvements after about their third years as full time starters. Most of their improvements after they've been starters for three years or so tend to come from more experience or from improved situations. Russell Wilson played really well as a rookie, but he was great as a sophomore and even better as a third year QB. He's probably even better now because of his experience, but the difference between his play between now and when he was a third year player is probably no where near the difference between his first and second year or his second and third years. I don't think Tyrod's improvement this year is all that surprising in that this is his third year as a full time starter. I had hoped to see more improvement from him last season but maybe Dennison's system actually fits him better. I think he'd do even better if the Bills had better WRs but Clay and O'Reilly seem to have taken up some of the slack. Perhaps Deonte Thomas will, too.

I didn't say he wouldn't get better. I said I didn't think he would get significantly better ... make more large improvements like he did between his rookie season and last season and over last season. That's because his issues don't seem to be related to things he can "fix" like getting better at reading defenses. He's probably not going to be able to curb his gunslinger mentality entirely, and that's his worst fault. He can exercise more self-discipline as he gains experience, but when the chips are down, he's not always going to be able to ignore the urge to try to force the ball where he shouldn't. Favre played for 20 years, and he never did quite master that either.

Does he really have a "huge ceiling" any more? It seems unrealistic to think that Winston -- or any other QB -- is going to continue to improve significantly throughout their career. Generally, it takes about three years of starting for QBs to reach their best playing level, and from there on, the best ones will increase somewhat incrementally because they get smarter and wiser from experience, but most will stay about where they are, and their bad habits will tend to stay ingrained. This is Winston's third year as a full time starter, so it's unlikely that he's going to get significantly better in the future or lose the gunslinger mentality. There's not much more that TB can do to help him improve, either, since they already field a respectable OL, a nice contingent of receivers and decent RBs. Taylor, OTOH, who is also in his third year as a starter, could benefit greatly from the Bills providing him with a better WR corps, better OL play, and, this year at least, a better running game. Is it going to make him an elite QB? Highly unlikely, but it could probably put him on the same level as Dalton, Flacco, Tannehill, Bradford, etc.which wouldn't be bad. If you watch games around the league, the two common denominators for QB "success" is effective OL play and good receivers. Having a strong running game helps, too. Numerous big name QBs have had disastrous game or are having seasons this year because their teams are lacking in those areas.

I was being sarcastic. There are a contingent of Bills fans who are convinced that the only reason that the Bills have failed to make the playoffs in 17 years has been because they haven't had a "franchise QB" and who are convinced that the Bills should procure the #1 pick in the 2018 draft by whatever means necessary so that they can draft this mythical super hero, from "tanking" the season to trading away all the talent remaining on the Bills roster to procure enough draft picks to trade up to the #1 pick ... or top 3, I suppose. Peters wasn't going to sign any contract ever again with the Bills after the Bills refused to renegotiate the unfair contract they offered him in 2006 or 2007. The Bills stood on "principle" that they wouldn't renegotiate the contract that Peters signed for JAG RT or a swing OT money when he was already a starting LT. After his 2008 hold out and subsequent second Pro Bowl season, Peters stood on his own principle that he would play out his contract but wouldn't sign again with the Bills. Nobody likes to feel taken advantage of, and that was what soured Peters' relationship with the Bills. The Bills had no choice but to trade him then, although if they had been fairer with Peters in the first place or had just accepted that they should renegotiate the unfair contract with a minimum of publicity, the best OLer to ever wear the Bills uniform would likely still be wearing one.

Bull crap. Dumb Bills fans hate on all ex-Bills players who go on to have successful careers elsewhere in the NFL. Marshawn didn't ask to be traded. He got pushed out because the Bills figure that great RBs are a dime a dozen ... apparently just like DBs and WRs ... and, apparently, LTs now.

Good lord, the 2018 draft better be the best damned college draft ever, so overloaded with talent in every round that Bills can build their entire Super Bowl team just on the players they take with their 50 picks in the first three rounds from trading away every single current player with even a flicker of talent.

I hope you like crow, cuz you're dead wrong about Peters. In his 13+ year career, Peters potentially could have played in 214 games. He played in 175 games, starting 165. The last time I looked, he played in 81.8% of the games he could have played in. 2004 5 games 1 start 2005 16 games 10 starts 2006 16 games 16 starts 2007 15 games 15 starts 2008 13 games 13 starts 2009 15 games 15 starts 2010 13 games 13 starts 2011 14 games 14 starts 2012 Missed entire season because of Achilles injury 2013 16 games 16 starts 2014 16 games 16 starts 2015 14 games 14 starts 2016 16 games 16 starts 2017 6 games 6 starts Jason Peters came into the league in 2004 as an UDFA TE. Since 2007, he's been a Pro Bowler 9 times, every season he's played, and he's been first team All Pro for Philly twice, 2011 and 2013. His ticket for Canton is already punched. He might just be one of the NFL's all time great OLers ... AND THE STUPID ARSED BILLS LET HIM GO FOR A LATE FIRST ROUND PICK AFTER HE'D PROVEN HIMSELF.

Well, whoopty-doo. It's not like the Bills haven't started other seasons with winning records .... The 2016 Bills started 4-2. Finished 7-9. The 2015 Bills started 3-2. Finished 8-8. The 2014 Bills started 3-2. Finished 9-7 but no playoffs. The 2011 Bills started 5-2. Finished 6-10. The 2008 Bills started 5-2. Finished 7-9. The 2003 Bills started 3-2. Finished 6-10. The 2002 Bills started 5-3. Finished 8-8. OLers frequently play into their mid/late 30s, and Glenn is only 28. Furthermore, his foot injury is his first significant injury in his career, and those injuries take some time to heal. Getting rid of him is absolutely the stupidest move the Bills could make ... but it is likely what they'll do. If the Bills get a 2nd or 3rd, it'll probably be a 2019 pick .... teams know damn well when the Bills are in fire sale mode, they'll take just about anything ... like they did for Peters and Lynch.

The Broncos want to win football games ... not sometime in the future but right now. They understand the importance of having a solid LT protecting their QB even if he's only a low draft pick and likely a fill-in for their first round "franchise QB of the future" who is riding the pine. The Broncos are also the same outfit that are running the same defensive scheme (not necessarily the same defense) under their new HC and DC as last year because they've got the players, including Von Miller, who fit the old scheme.

Because the Bills don't want to pay him when they have Dawkins who has filled in "adequately" ... if you like your offense boring, mind-numbing, and ineffectual. Your opinion. IMO, the situations are linked by the fact that 1) both players are among the highest paid on the Bills current roster; 2) both haven't played all that much; and 3)that rumors have been circulating for weeks that the Bills coaches aren't happy with both because of #1 and #2. This is pretty much the SOP the Bills use when they're preparing to dump players: 1) they are highly paid or are expecting a big pay day 2) they have some "issue" that prevents them from playing 3) rumors start circulating about them. It fits how the Bills treated Sammy Watkins. It also fit how they treated both Marshawn Lynch and Jason Peters before they traded them as well. You can take the manure the Bills organization shovels at face value if you want, but after 17 years of seeing them shovel the ****, I'm skeptical of every excuse they make for themselves. I have to wonder how all the true believers figure that the Bills will ever be able to afford a real franchise QB when they draft him in 2018 ... along with the rest of their Super Bowl winning team. I guess they're figuring the Bills will take all their studs in 2018 and win the SB by 2022 before they let them all walk at the conclusion of their rookie contracts. Glenn has proven his ability. Dawkins has played 5 games. Since Glenn hasn't been able to play, Dawkins has been needed at LT. How could he also play RT at the same time? It takes time to adjust to playing any new position, especially when a player flips sides because everything is reversed. Try driving a car in a country where they drive on the left side of the road ... and see how much trouble that causes you.

Apparently, part of the new Bills "process" is to trade players who get injured as soon as they show they're recovered. Glenn is injured He had a foot injury during the preseason, and then injured his ankle in a game. The delusional Bills HC thinks that the Bills have 5 "quality" OTs on the roster, so why spend $$$ paying the most expensive one when he can be turned into another draft pick.

Exactly. They want Cordy's salary gone ASAP, and as the trade deadline approaches, they'll probably be willing to take a fourth rounder for him ... like they did for Marshawn. They're probably stuck with Dareus, though, because they've made their desperation to unload his $$$ so obvious, no other NFL team will ante up a pick for him when they know he'll be available on waivers in the off season.

Well, Shady will probably get impaled regularly, too. Vlad ain't exactly DY-NO-MITE in the run game, either. No, the Bills have a plan. We poor ignorant fans just don't "understand" what it is ... at least according to some Bills stalwarts. They may even be right ... if Vlad Ducasse is part of McDermott's plan to build a Super Bowl team by surrounding a franchise QB to be named later with JAGs, ST refugees, and failed high draft picks who work hard and play for cheap. Understand, I'm not saying it will work (it hasn't over the previous 17 years), but I think that might be the plan.

I understand EXACTLY what game the Bills are and have been playing under Brandon. It's "money ball". Money had everything to do with the Watkins trade. Being a selfish primadonna is part and parcel of being a talented young WR in the NFL. If they stick around long enough, they usually mellow out, but early in their careers, just about any WR taken in the first round is going to be a PITA, and some of them never get over it. Furthermore, since Watkins was injured for much of the last year, using his supposed lack of production is simply an excuse ... and it plays into the prejudices of Bills fans against players who make big $$$, something that's been carefully cultivated by OBD and it's constant whining about the "salary cap". Part of the morning sports headline is that Cordy Glenn's future with the Bills is "iffy" because he has a big contract and isn't "performing" up to that contract. Translated that means it's all right to keep a turnstile OG like Vlad Ducasse because he signed for cheap but it's time to send the high-priced LT Glenn packing because the Bills don't think he's worth what they're paying him because he's been hurt, even though this is the first significant time he's missed in his pro career. If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, and it waddles like a duck, it's a duck not a swan.

Glenn is 28 IIRC, which is hardly "old" for an OLer since good ones frequently play into well into their thirties. It looks like the Bills just want to shed salary, and they don't much care how much talent they dump in the process. If the Bills were truly interested in winning football games, instead of trading away their best OT to save $$$, they would use a day 1 or day 2 draft pick on an eventual replacement for Incognito who's 34 and, if it's a draft deep in OL prospects, maybe on one for Wood, too, who's 30 or 31. However, the Bills being the Bills, they'll trade Glenn for practically nothing, ignore the OL positions that should be priorities, and fill their OL spots with ST refugees and UDFA signees whom they'lll claim are "just as good" as the players they've traded, let walk in FA, retired, etc.

Mea culpa. I thought you were one of those railing to have Groy play guard ...

Well said, sir!!! Ducasse has NEVER excelled on an NFL playing field except at getting his QB hit and his RB stood up at the LOS. If Ducasse is better in this blocking scheme than Mills -- "excels" -- then it's the scheme that's wrong. Glenn, Incognito, Wood, and Mills all played their OL positions decently in the past as evidenced by the Bills excellent running game the last two years and decent passing production. Now, they're all being forced into a scheme that they're struggling to adjust to, especially Mills, just to fit the OC's "system".

The only place the Bills have "5 quality OTs" is in McDermott's dreams, certainly not on the team any time in this century. Glenn is the best of them. Dawkins is probably next, and he's probably going to be moved to RT ... provided that the Bills don't do exactly what you think they might do, which is entirely possible because, like good WRs, DBs, and RBs, good LTs are "a dime a dozen". NO. Players are not robots. You can't just plug one in where ever you have a need like a lamp. Groy came into the league as a LG, and he failed. The Bills tried him at C, and he seems better there, so why try to flip him to the right side where he'd have to learn everything in reverse, which doesn't signal anything but disaster in the short term. That's not just the verdict of the current coaching staff but the previous one as well.

What exactly is all this "evidence otherwise"? I agree that the Pegulas are willing to spend money, but after they got conned by Ryan they seem to have stepped back and turned the running of the team over to "the football people" which would be a good move if Brandon and his "football people" were actually "football people" who knew something about football rather than bean counters dedicated to increasing profitabillity. Beane has no player personnel expertise, so basically, the only "football guy" is their rookie HC, Sean McDermott, who certainly has a much more modest resume than Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey or Doug Marrone, since all of them had head coaching experience in college or the NFL. How is letting Gilmore, Goodwin, and Woods in FA and then using 2017 first and second round draft picks on a DB and WR to replace them any different than all the other times over the last 20 years that the Bills have shed their best DBs and WRs and used draft picks on their replacements? Trading Watkins had nothing to do with his attitude but with the fact that the Bills were never going to offer him market value, even before he made his comments about WRs being paid more in general. If the Bills had been interested in signing him at all, they would have picked up his option; they just waitied until he demonstrated he was healthy to pull the trigger on the trade. I expect that the Watkins trade may very well join the other two great trades the Bills pulled off under Brandon's watch: All Pro LT Jason Peters to Philadelphia and All Pro RB Marshawn Lynch to Seattle. Basically, the team is doing exactly the same manure under the new ownership that it did under the old ownership. The names and faces of the lower echelon people -- where "the football people" are -- have changed but higher up the food chain -- the guys who make the real decisions -- haven't changed at all.

That's about par for the course with PFF's judgement of OLers ... I think their algorithm for rating OLers has a few logic errors. They once rated All Pro Jason Peters as "the worst LT in the league" when he was a Bill. I guess that's why the Bills traded him to Philly where he's only made All Pro a couple more times despite a serious Achilles injury a few years ago.

I agree with many of your sentiments, including your view of Ralph Wilson. I differ with you on your view of the Pegulas ... I think that after their brief fling with Ryan, they've surrendered to the "money ball" philosophy that has permeated the Bills organization since Russ Brandon, current President of both the Bills and the Sabres, joined the organization more than a decade ago, so I'm not sure that they're dedicated to winning any more than Ralph was. I keep hoping that they got burned with Ryan and turned to Brandon because of it. I keep hoping they wise up and can Brandon and his minions because otherwise the last 17 years of rearranging of the deck chairs on Titanic are going to continue. IMO, Beane and McDermott aren't all that different than Levy and Jauron. I don't know how long my Bills fandom will last. It's seriously declined, and especially this season, I can feel myself detaching. I gave up my seasons after the 2008 season when they rehired Jauron (probably the Bills HC I hated the most), but I would go to a couple of games a year. This year, I haven't attended one, primarily because I felt that the FO was doing the same thing it's always done: shedding talented players to save $$$ and trying to pawn off JAGs and ST refugees as "just as good". Well, they aren't ... as the performance of so many ex-Bills playing well for good teams like the Patriots, Eagles, and Chiefs proves. I watch Bills games sporadically, usually channel hopping to other games. I feel like I'm seriously contemplating divorce, this time from a team rather than from a spouse. Like a divorce, even after the marriage ends, you don't stop caring, you just stop subjecting yourself to all the anger and heartache.

I totally agree. The call in the Jests game on the field was TD, and there didn't seem to be clear enough evidence to the contrary. Belichick and Vlad Ducasse apparently know where the right bodies are buried. Rodgers landed wrong on his shoulder. Manure happens.

Ah, the proverbial "wait until next year!" only in the Bills' case, it's not about winning next year, it's getting ready to win next year. Of course, "next year" never comes because the Bills change coaching regimes about twice a presidential election cycle. Not quite. They replaced two good starting WRs with a JAG and a rookie, and the results have certainly not been "on par." Robert Woods has 22 catches and 0 TDs for 322 yards while Sammy Watkins has 15 receptions and 2 TDs for 222 yards. That's 37 catches, 544 yards and 2 TDs combined. Jordan Matthews has 10 catches for 1 TD and 162 yards while Zay Jones has 5 catches and 66 yards. That's 15 catches, 228 yards, and 1 TD combined. Dude, Peterman is NOT superman, although you keep politicking for him to be annointed SAVIOR . He probably needs an even better OL than Taylor. The Bills have an OL that is still struggling to adapt to a new blocking scheme. With Matthews and Clay injured, the Bills don't have a single NFL caliber receiver, and the running game is anemic for several reasons besides the poor OL play. With Vlad Ducasse still on the roster and Tolbert and Banyard as McCoy's backups, playing Russian roulette is McDermott's and Dennison's game. Lack of talent is going to bite this team in the arse big time as the season goes on ... Great/good coaches figure out how to maximize the talent they have; they're adaptable. Crappy coaches can only see one way to win games, and they have to have "their guys" to do it (at least according to them). I'll say it again: IMO McDermott seem to bears depressing resemblance to Dick Jauron, which doesn't bode well for the Bills ending the drought any time soon.

Nonsense. HCs, OCs, and DCs are NOT responsible for "teaching principles". They are designing strategies to beat opponents, and they are creating the offensive and defensive plays. Coaches who can only design strategies and plays they've personally experienced aren't really good candidates for HC, OC or DC jobs. It takes more than rote learning. It takes imagination. The problem for this constant flip flopping with offensive and defensive structures and styles with every coaching change rests squarely on the suits in OBD. Why are they hiring a rookie HC and giving him carte blanche to hire whomever he wants? Why is it that they can't insist that the new HC adhere to something like this: "hey, we've got a decent offense[defense], so bring in an OC[DC] who can/will improve on what we have"? Or, maybe, we'd like whomever you hire as DC (OC) to work with most of the starters we have now since they're really good." The last time I looked, the people doing the hiring are in charge, not the job applicants. Not all teams have these problems, either. The Broncos' first year HC Vance Joseph had his DC, Joe Woods, keep the same alignment (3-4 I believe) as the Broncos had used under Wade Phillips because the Ponies already had a great D with some great players, starting with Von Miller, rather than go with the defensive structure that he was most used to. The Denver new OC, Mike McCoy, has designed an offense that fits the players he's got, too, not tossing away the team's talent to get "his guys".