SoTier

Groy has more "SOLID experience and DEMONSTRATED results" than 2 Pro Bowl LGs (Ruben Brown, Richie Incognito) or a future HOF LT (Jason Peters) or one of the NFL's solid starting LTs (Cordy Glenn)? Really? Or were you referring to Langston Walker and/or Bennie Anderson? Walker was a starting OT for 4 of his 9 NFL seasons with Oakland and the Bills. Bennie Anderson was a five year NFL starter with Baltimore and the Bills. Groy's "SOLID experience and DEMONSTRATED results" consists of playing in 41 games over 4 seasons, starting 11 of them. He started 7 games in 2016 and 1 game in 2017 for the Bills because Wood was injured. He's a backup who hasn't demonstrated that he can be a full time quality starter.

As long as it truly isn't this, I'd prefer the Bills draft a QB to signing a FA vet. They might as well just keep Taylor in that case because there's not much out there other than Cousins. They'd have to trade for Foles, and I'm not sure that he could have success with the Bills because of their holes on offense. To negotiate trades and other related personnel matters. I think that both NE and KC use the model where the HC has control of player personnel. The Bills have generally had the GM either equal/semi-subservient to the HC since Donahoe was fired after the 2005 season. Both Whaley and Nix selected players that fit what the HC wanted ... for good or bad, and mostly bad IMO since the 2013 draft.

It depends upon who's available. However unlikely, if Nelson is there at #21, you sprint to the podium to get him. There may be some others worth taking at #21 or #22, but a second rounder might work out well, too. OBD passed on 2 potential franchise QBs to take a DB last year when they traded out of the #10 slot. I'm not saying they were wrong to do that, but I sure wouldn't want them trading up take the fourth or fifth best QB prospect in the draft. That's a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure if I'd want them to take any QB at #21 or #22, either ... the number of successful QBs to come out of the bottom of the first round since 2000 is really small. Off the top of my head, I think there's Chad Pennington, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, and maybe, if he's truly healthy enough to play, Teddy Bridgewater. With QBs, it's basically, go high or stay home IMO, and my guess is that nobody at the top of the draft is likely to want to deal except maybe Cleveland. More precisely, the Bills depth is non-existent unless Glenn makes a full recovery and the Bills keep him, and Miller gets another chance at RG. Vlad Ducasse is a career backup. I hope so. Ducasse didn't suddenly become starting guard material after 8 years in the league.

Sorry, but I've heard this kind of thing so often over the years when the Bills replace a starter with a backup, especially on the OL, that I am exceedingly skeptical. Bennie "The Penalty" Anderson wasn't an adequate replacement for Pro Bowl LG Ruben Brown and Langston Walker and numerous other Never-Weres weren't replacements for All Pro LT Jason Peters. The Bills wasted about 4 years before they got around to replacing Brown, and another 3 or 4 years before they replaced Peters. I hope Groy is a decent replacement for Wood but I'm not pinning my hopes on him. The Bills need to draft a center on Day 1 or Day 2 and then add a guard on Day 2 or Day 3. If this regime is committed to winning football games, then there can be no excuses for not bringing in some quality young OLers through the draft and keeping the good OLers they already have, ie Incognito, Glenn, and Dawkins.

Maybe because most people would think that winning "only" 8 or 9 games is better than losing 13 or 14? Peterman doesn't have an NFL arm, so his ceiling has always been limited. He doesn't appear to be the supposedly "cerebral" and "pro ready" QB he was thought to be in college. In a perfect world, he wouldn't even be on the Bills roster on opening day. If he's their starter, it's going to be a long season for the faithful.

This. The real problem with the Bills offense last season was the OC. He not only forced Taylor into a system that didn't fit him, his insistence on changing the OL blocking scheme seriously compromised that unit's play as well; the OL never played consistently well all season. It didn't help that Dennison's 1950ish conservatism and the Bills lack of downfield speed enabled teams to disrespect their passing game. He's probably not a good fit for the Bills because the Bills don't have a good pass blocking OL and have a lousy WR corps ( in contrast, the Eagles have one of the best two OLs in the league and excellent receivers). Bringing Foles without major upgrades to those units is a recipe for being here in February, 2019 reading post after post whining about how disappointing Foles is.

Bull manure. So, how come the Saints have only made the playoffs in 6 of the 12 seasons that future HOFer Drew Brees has been with them? How come the Chargers have only made the playoffs once in the last 8 years despite having Phillip Rivers or the NY Giants only twice in the last 9 seasons despite having Eli Manning? It takes more than simply a QB, as the Indy Colts demonstrated the last 3 seasons even when Andrew Luck played. Moreover, there is absolutely no guarantee that "all those other pieces will fall into place after that". It hasn't for GB in recent years ... Aaron Rodgers' excellence has simply hidden all of the Packers' flaws. Jameis Winston hasn't enabled TB to put together a winning team, and neither did Kirk Cousin in Washington. OTOH, both Minnesota and Philadelphia proved that stout defenses and good offensive personnel/coaching can make even backup QBs winners. FYI -- how can you possibly claim that Zay Jones had a "pretty good start"? As of now, he looks like a bust. Well, maybe not "most" but certainly a significant number advocate just that position ... very emphatically. They've been agitating for the Bills to do whatever they have to do -- "tank" or trade up -- to take a QB since TC last summer when nobody had any idea what QBs would be in the 2018 draft. Even now, numerous posters advocate the Bills trading up to get a QB without having any specific QB in mind, even if he would be the fourth or fifth best QB prospect taken, so I think it's safe to say that many posters do advocate that the Bills "go get a QB to just get one..." It seems that he might be subordinate to McDermott when it comes to personnel decisions. As someone mentioned, McDermott had at least some if not most of the say in Beane's hiring.

Totally agree. Philly won the Super Bowl with a backup QB because their OL enabled them to run their offense. If the NE defenders had been in the Eagles backfield all game (like so many teams' defenders were in the Bills backfield all season), it's likely the outcome would have been different. Certainly Foles (and Wentz when he was healthy) wouldn't have looked so great. The best thing the Bills can do is fix their OL ... for whoever is the QB in 2018 and for whenever they get a franchise QB. The best QB in the world can't do squat when he's on his back.

The bolded part is what I'm leery of with Foles, too. DCs as well as many veteran defenders build up "books" on QBs based on film study. The more they see of a QB in a specific offense, the more likely they are to figure out how to stop him. With top QBs, that's not all that much of a problem because they're so good, but with lesser QBs, it becomes a problem because they're more limited. The "book" on Tyrod Taylor is to confine him to the pocket and make him throw the ball to his check down receivers by covering his wide outs because he won't throw throw them open -- and the Bills didn't have any WRs who could get separation this past season. Foles has very real limits to his game because he did struggle the second year in Philly as well as in his other stops. My guess is that if the Pats' defense could have taken away the RPOs, Foles wouldn't have looked nearly so good ... but Philly's great OL prevented that ... at least in the short term. If Belichick had more time and film, he probably would have figured out how to significantly limit Foles' effectiveness.

Always the first to come to the defense of your buds, eh?

That's what happens when the grammatically-impaired don't bother with capitalization or other "niceties" of the English language -- it can change the meaning of the sentence entirely. I had to read the sentence twice before I realized he meant Tre White.

So, after squeaking into the playoffs as a WC with a 9-7 record after 17 years of missing them, the Bills should declare 2017 a "success" and immediately begin rebuiliding? Seriously? One wildcard game does NOT make a dynasty any more than a couple of good games does NOT make a QB's career. I agree with Bandit27. The Bills need to have a good draft, and they have enough picks to do that. They also need to be smart about their own vets, including keeping the ones that they can't truly upgrade with reasonable FA acquisitions, something the Bills have repeatedly failed to do over the years. IMO, the OL needs to be a priority on the offensive side since all offensive success is dependent upon that. They need to draft the best C or OG they can, hopefully on Day 1 but no later than Day 2. Philly's OL is considered one of the very best if not the best OL in the NFL, and they played like it on Sunday night. I'm not sure that Foles was even knocked down all game. If a QB the Bills truly like falls to them, I'm not opposed to them taking him, but I surely don't want them trading up to take the fourth or fifth best QB prospect or taking a QB at 21 or 22 simply to say they took a QB. They've tried both those routes before and got nothing but manure for their trouble. They have too many holes to fill to waste high draft picks on a QB who's ceiling is "backup QB". They can draft one of those on Day 2 or Day 3 if they want somebody better than Peterman (which I hope they do but they have bigger needs right now, so I wouldn't be upset if they didn't). The reality is that cutting Taylor will cost $8+ million in dead cap money, so that has to be figured into the cost of any FA QB the Bills consider. That seems likely to make Kirk Cousins prohibitively expensive for the Bills, even if Cousins passed on much more QB friendly situations in Denver or Minnesota to consider the Bills. Keenum is probably an upgrade but I can't see Minnesota letting him walk while keeping Bradford and Bridgewater with their very questionable knees. Most of the other potential FA QBs being mentioned are career backups, and not necessarily very good ones. IMO, unless they can truly upgrade the QB position through FA, which will cost big bucks, the Bills need to bite the bullet, keep Taylor even if they draft a first round QB, and give him a system that fits his talents better as well as a better WR corps. Spend the $ on the WRs, OLers, and a better RB than Tolbert. On defense, the Bills need to upgrade DT and LB. Another edge rusher would be nice, too. It generally takes 3-4 years to develop a DT, so FA might be a better bet than the draft unless there's a real stud available. Unfortunately, FA DTs are expensive, so wasting $$ on a FA QB who's not better than Taylor likely means that the Bills can't add a DT or edge rusher. LBs tend to be easier to find and develop, so the Bills should probably look to the draft to upgrade that position. The good news about the draft is that the Bills have so many holes that taking "best player available" when their turns come should be a no brainer.

A lot of Foles' success in the playoffs is because Pederson and his OC have modified the Eagles offense to fit what Foles does best as well as Doug Pederson's aggressive play calling. With a more conservative minded HC and an OC less willing to change to fit his QB, my guess is that Foles would struggle.

Exactly this. IMO, the Bills QB position doesn't need to be fixed but upgraded. Cleveland and Denver are teams that need to fix their QB situations. If the Bills can't get a better QB than Taylor in FA, then they need to keep him. Cousins would be an upgrade. If Bradford were healthy and could stay that way, he would be, too, but staying healthy has been problematic for him since he was drafted. Keenum might be, but I'm thinking he doesn't leave Minnesota unless the Vikings sign Cousins. Who else is there on the FA market? Fitzpatrick and McKown might be available. Matt Moore, Chad Henne, Derek Anderson have been mentioned. Keep in mind that cutting Taylor will result in an $8+ million cap hit in 2018, which likely puts Cousins out of range and makes both Bradford and Keenum cost about the same against the cap as keeping Taylor. Taylor/Cousins/Bradford/Keenum plus a first round QB would be an upgrade. Any of these same QBs plus a second round QB might be an upgrade if the rookie turned out to be at least a competent backup. A QB like Moore, Henne, or Anderson plus a first round QB would only be an upgrade if the rookie was good enough to win the starting job in TC.

Sorry, dudes, but when trashy QBs like Anderson, Moore or Henne are being talked about as possible Bills starters as "bridge QBs", Tyrod Taylor is looking better and better. The FA QB market is always slim pickin's because few teams let good ones, even good backups, leave. If the Bills cut Taylor and don't sign Cousins, they are simply reprising 2013 when they chose to save current $$ over winning football games either now or in the future.

The obvious thing is that you rewrite history to fit your own prejudices.

Calling Foles a "bridge QB" pre-supposes he's actually good enough to be a regular starting QB, which he hasn't demonstrated that he can be since his sophomore season.

If Mayfield falls, it's likely because he's shorter than desired, and most GMs like tall QBs. Of all the faults a first round QB can have, that's probably the one that's least important as both Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have proven.

If Cousins goes to Jax (which I don't think will happen), then that makes Bortles available. If Miami takes a first round QB, it's likely they'll cut/trade Tannehill to save some $$.

Thanks. I thought it might be a Matt ... either Cassel or Flynn.

Y'know you're old when you remember when most of these guys were rookies!

Why are you surprised? He's not even a low end starter on a par with McKown or Fitzpatrick, and he's certainly not nearly as good as Tyrod Taylor. Except for one season in Cleveland 10 years ago, Anderson sucked in most of his other starting appearances, and he has only started 4 games since 2010. In 2016 for Carolina, Anderson started 2 games in which he threw 2 TDs and 5 INTs. Overall in his career, he's thrown 60 TDs and 60 INTs with 29 TDs and 19 INTs coming in his 2006 season. I'd hardly consider him a "quality backup" to "mentor" a rookie, and he's not even in the conversation when discussing possible starting QBs.

Taylor was signed when the Bills had Manuel and another QB (don't remember who it was) on the roster who were listed ahead of him on the depth chart. He outplayed them both and won the starting job in the preseason. He wasn't signed with the intention of his being the starting QB over the QBs the Bills already had.

It's crazy all right. There hasn't been 6 QBs taken in the first round since the legendary class of 1983 with Elway, Kelly, and Marino. The only class since then that has had 5 QBs was 1999 which yielded McNabb and Culpepper and 3 busts. Four QBs were taken in the first round five times, yielding all of 7 QBs whom most knowledgeable fans would consider "franchise QBs" of various levels. 1983 - John Elway, Todd Blackledge, Jim Kelly, Tony Eason, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino 1987 - Vinnie Testaverde, Kelly Stoufer, Chris Miller, and Jim Harbaugh 1999 - Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown 2003 - Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman 2004 - Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman 2011 - Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder 2012 - Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden With the notable exceptions of 1983 and 2004, large QB draft classes don't yield more successful QBs than do QB draft classes with only 1, 2 or 3 first round QBs. Of the 31 QBs taken in these large draft classes, only 13 were successful, including several whom Bills fans would likely have been disappointed with if they'd played for the Bills. The number of QBs in the class is irrelevant. What there has to be is one QB available that the Bills really, really like because they think he's going to be a top QB, not because they want to placate the fans or because they think they need a QB better than the one they have. PS: that none of the QBs in 2018 stands out enough to be the consensus #1 pick says to me that this QB class isn't all that great. I no longer think that Taylor can be "something special" but I think he can be a serviceable starting QB for 2018, especially if the Bills draft a first or second round QB for the future.

If Arians was such a great judge of QBs coming out of college, why didn't he ever find one for his own team? Arians became the Cards' HC in 2013, and since that time, the Cards have drafted exactly 1 QB: Logan Thomas in the fourth round in 2014 despite the fact that the Cards could have taken Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr or Jimmy Garoppolo in 2014 and that Carson Palmer had been in the league for more than 10 years at that time, and has been more susceptible to serious injuries than many other QBs. Sometimes there's no good QBs available when a team needs one, but there were better candidates than Thomas available in 2014, and Cards passed on them. Maybe Arians didn't have a lot of input in whom the Cards drafted, but I wouldn't have a lot of faith in Arians' evaluation of collegiate QBs based on his being a HC. Not all good HCs are good talent evaluators, especially when judging players playing in systems different from the ones they're familiar with.