SoTier

I never go "all in" on young QBs. Too many of those that look so promising as rookies or first year starters (Kaepernick and Griffin are two recent notables) fail to continue to develop into real franchise QBs. I was very skeptical of Goff, Wentz, and Watson last season and Mahomes early this season. I think all of them have demonstrated that they are, at worse, decent NFL QBs. I don't think Dak Prescott is in the same league as the other four but I think he'll make a decent QB. JMO. I think that Jameis Winston has demonstrated maybe he's better than Ryan Fitzpatrick but he's not a franchise QB.

Somewhere out on the web is a photo of Brady from his Combine appearance in 2000. Talk about skinny ... and Kirk Cousins fell out of favor with most football gurus because he was described as "too slightly built", ie, "skinny". Excellent analysis. I agree with your rankings. Mayfield separates mostly because of his leadership. The other three are kind of in a bunch.

I'm just pointing out that first round "project" QBs haven't worked out in the last almost 20 years. My guess is that that's likely a combo of their being drafted much too high for their actual talent level and for being put under pressure by being expected to start --and succeed -- too soon.

I was hoping that maybe Mayfield would fall because of his height, but Rosen was my second choice. My guess is that if Mayfield had been there at #7, McJackass would have passed on him, too, just as they did on Rosen. That's the Billsy thing to do. They passed on Russell Wilson back in 2012, too, because he was "too short". Rosen led a great last drive which ended with a pretty TD pass ... and then tossed a pass to Larry Fitz for the 2 point conversion to make sure that the Cards didn't lose on a last second FG. I haven't watched much of Rosen, but he looked much improved over some of his previous outings. As for Darnold and Mayfield, both struggled against tough, experienced defenses that can bring it against young, inexperienced QBs, which they did. I hope that Allen can develop into a franchise QB, but I think he has two big strikes against him: he's a "project" QB and project QBs don't often pan out; and he literally has no support around him with suspect QB coaching, poor OL, and a non-NFL caliber WR corps. FTR, I can't think of a first QB drafted since 2000 who was described as a "project" who went on to become a franchise QB or better. The successful "projects" recently have come from below the first round, including Tom Brady, Tony Romo (UDFA), and Kirk Cousins.

No, it's the stupid, short-sighted, penny-pinching owners and their FO lackeys who play "moneyball" by hiring cheap, crappy neophyte HCs; by refusing to pay market rates for most of the good young vets coming off their rookie contracts; by trying to foist backup and journeyman QBs; and by only drafting first round QBs when they absolutely need to in order to placate the fanbase.

Jordan Matthews was a McDermott/Beane trade/signee. The Bills could have afforded to keep at least one of the WRs they sent packing. They could have kept Woods and Goodwin or they could have kept Watkins. Instead, they kept none of them. Hell, they didn't even keep Matthews. And the McDermott/Beane cheerleaders expect these asshats to put together a respectable offense next year. ROTFLMAO.

Poor baby. Get used to it.

Don't you ever get tired of doing intellectual gymnastics in defense of McDermott and his sidekick? They didn't just screw up just "a couple things". They totally and completely screwed up the entire QB situation, from passing on Mahomes to wasting a pick on Peterman to overpaying for Allen to keeping Peterman and even naming him the starter for the opening game to waiting around for a month to bring in another member of "the Carolina gang", in this case a 35-year-old retiree who hadn't played in at least 2 years and hadn't started a game in 7. Nothing says "clueless" and "incompetent" more than McDermott waiting a month to bring in a better backup QB than Peterman and it being Derek Anderson.

They talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They are really good at spouting cliches, though.

Get a clue. The Bills had the winning Mega Millions lottery ticket in their hands and they traded it away for a $2500 scratch off ticket.

Chip Kelly wasn't in charge of personnel long enough (less than a year) to gut the Eagles as thoroughly as McDermott has gutted the Bills. Of course, the Eagles had more talent than the Bills had to begin with -- and a quality FO in place with a smart enough owner to know to cut his losses.

Trading out of the top ten to take a first round DB to replace a young vet that they let walk in FA rather than take a potential franchise quarterback may not be sensible but it is the quintessential "Billsy" thing to do. If the Bills FO can screw up a draft, have no doubt that they will do it. The reason that the Bills can't hire a competent NFL gm is because the Bills GM is expected to share power with the HC and with various other FO office personnel who have too much input into football decisions, not because the Bills already had a recently drafted first round QB. In the case of Brandon Beane, he was apparently hired primarily because of McDermott's influence. Moreover, draft picks don't have a real choice about what team that they can sign with. Either they sign with the team that drafted them or they sit out whatever period they have to wait to become eligible for the draft again (or whatever the specific rules are). Finally, the Bills have missed on QBs because they have long tried to go the cheap route with QBs, mostly making do with lower round draft picks or other teams' discards. Jim Kelly was the first first round QB the Bills drafted in their history. They didn't draft another first round QB for 21 years until they took JP Losman in 2004. They waited another 9 years to draft another QB in the first round. Even though it was obvious early on that Manuel was a bust, the Bills finally got around to drafting another QB in the first round in 2018. You are incorrect about Andy Reid's QBs. Only Patrick Mahomes (2017) and Donovan McNabb (1999) were first round picks. Kolb was a 2nd rounder (2007). Andy Hall was a 6th rounder (2004). AJ Feeley was a 5th round pick in 2001. FTR, McNabb was the only long term franchise QB from his class.

This cannot be repeated too much. All this hype about "great QB draft class" is just so much bull manure peddled by media mavens, draftniks, and QB agents. No matter the hype or not, most QB classes produce only 1 genuine franchise QB, and only a few produce more than 1. So far, in the 21st century, the only QB class that was hyped before the draft as "generational" that lived up to its billing was 2004. 2011 was supposed to be the best since 2004 with 4 first round picks -- Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder -- but only Newton and 2nd rounder Andy Dalton were any good. The much hyped 2012 draft class -- first rounders Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden -- would have only had 2 franchise QBs in Luck and Tannehill if not for the QBs taken in later rounds. The 2 best QBs from 2012 were probably 3rd rounder Russell Wilson and 4th rounder Kirk Cousins. More importantly, most of the best current NFL QBs came out of draft classes that weren't hyped as being "generational" like 2004 and 2018. Tom Brady came out of the 2000 class that only produced 1 other even half way decent QB in Chad Pennington. Drew Brees came from the 2001 class with the only first round being Michael Vick. Carson Palmer came out of the 2003 class, and both Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers came out of the 2005 classes. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco came out of 2008. Matthew Stafford came out of 2009. Jared Goff and Carson Wentz came out of 2016. If you're a team that needs a franchise QB and there's one sitting there to be taken at your turn, but you pass on him just because the "next draft is supposed to be a better QB class", you do that at your own peril. I think McDermott screwed the pooch by passing on Mahomes or Watson. That's not just because Mahomes and Watson look to be great QBs in the making (which is bad enough) but that the Bills sacrificed so much talent to get Allen, who is clearly a much weaker prospect than either of the other two, and probably will take longer to develop into a franchise QB if he can actually become one. The reality is that the Bills could have had a bonafide young franchise QB AND a whole lot more talent (having used all that draft capital on other prospects) if McDermott had taken Mahomes or Watson.

I watch lots of other teams' games, which is why I see just how out of step with the rest of the NFL the Bills are. Hell, they are even out of step with previous Bills teams from 2014-2016. While other teams make mistakes with personnel, no team has given away its best talent with little to show for it as consistently as the Bills have done since John Butler and AJ Smith left for San Diego back in 2001, and no Bills team -- maybe no team in NFL history -- has stripped itself of so much talent in such a short time and replaced it with so little.

I have no doubt that Andy Reid could barely contain himself when the Bills called looking to trade picks with KC with Mahomes still available. Once more, AR fleeces the Bills ... or more precisely, the Bills go to AR asking to be fleeced. 2009 or 2017, same old Bills incompetence just different clowns.

So, how is this move any different than all the other times the Bills have done this exact same thing during the drought???? You're one of those McDermott cheerleaders who has constantly defended his boneheaded plays as "building the team the right way", so how is constantly allowing good/excellent young veterans to walk away in free agency or trading them away for peanuts with the excuse "we can't afford to pay them" or "they wouldn't have re-signed anyways" or "they didn't want to be here" and then using high draft picks to replace them NOT the same thing in 2017 as it was in 2004???? Because McDermott did it instead of Donahoe or Nix or Whaley??? 1999 Bills draft Antoine Winfield, DB, in the first round. In 2004, he signs with Minnesota where he plays 9 more seasons and makes the Pro Bowl 3 times. 2001 Bills draft Nate Clements, DB, in the first round. In 2007, after making the Pro Bowl with the Bills, he signs with San Francisco and later with the Cincinatti Bengals. 2003 Bills draft Willis McGahee, RB, in the first round. In 2007, the Bills traded him to the Ravens for a third round pick that they turned into Tentative Trent Edwards while McGahee, who ran for 1200+ yards for the Bills in 2005, ran for 1200+ yards again for Baltimore, and later in his career, ran for 1200+ yards for Denver. He made the Pro Bowl for both Baltimore and Denver, both of which he helped to the playoffs. 2004 Bills sign UDFA TE Jason Peters. As a TE, Peters was a JAG at best. As an OT, he was one of the best of his era. He made the Pro Bowl twice with the Bills before he got in a contract dispute over renegotiating his contract to pay him what he was worth. The Bills traded him to Philadelphia before the 2009 draft for a 2009 first (Eric Wood) and a fourth (Shawn Nelson). Peters has made the Pro Bowl 7 more times with Philly and added 2 All Pro honors to his resume. Except for 2012 when he missed the entire season with an Achilles tear and 2017 when he missed half the year with a knee injury, he's been a Pro Bowler. He's STILL the anchor of the Eagles OL at almost 37 years old. 2007 Bills draft Marshawn Lynch, RB, in the first round. Lynch was easily the best RB the Bills had since Thurman Thomas, and probably the best power runner they had since OJ Simpson. The Bills traded him to Seattle in 2010 for a fourth round draft pick in 2011 and a fifth rounder in 2012 which they turned into the forgettable JAGs Chris Hairston and Tank Carder. Oh, yeah, and Lynch went on to more Pro Bowls, All Pro honors, and a Super Bowl trophy with Seattle before likely finishing his career in Oakland. 2010 Bills draft CJ Spiller, RB, in the first round. He lacked the size and build to be an every down back but he had speed ... and would cost much less than Lynch if they re-signed Lynch rather than trade him. 2012 Bills draft Stephon Gilmore, DB, in the first round. He was the Bills starting CB for his five seasons here, making the Pro Bowl in 2016. The Bills let him walk in FA where the Patriots signed him and he's become a proverbial "lock down" corner for the AFC dominating Pats. 2012 Bills draft Cordy Glenn, OT, in the second round, finally getting around to replacing Peters. Glenn was one of the top LTs in the NFL, and Whaley correctly re-signed him to a market rate contract. In 2017, McDermott drafted Dion Dawkins in the 2nd round, and since he played decently at LT when Glenn was injured, Beane traded Glenn to Cincy for their 2018 first round pick (which was subsequently traded to get Allen) and a fifth round that became Ray-Ray McCloud. 2013 Bills draft Robert Woods, WR, in the second round, and Marquise Goodwin, WR, in the third. Woods was an excellent WR but the Bills supposedly didn't even offer him a contract, so the Rams did. Goodwin went to San Francisco in FA as well. Both tore up the league in 2017 while the Bills replaced them with JAGs and bottom feeder WRs -- and needing to spend draft picks higher than Day 3 for NFL caliber WRs. 2014 Bills draft Sammy Watkins, WR, in the first round, trading away their 2015 first round pick to trade up to #4. Watkins had 1000+ yards in 2015 and nearly 1000 yards in 2014 as a rookie. He still had nearly 500 yards in 2016 in despite missing half the season with injury. Beane traded Watkins to LA for a second round pick (used to get Allen) and EJ Gaines, CB, in July 2017. How, exactly, is trading up for a raw "project" QB prospect in the first round in a supposedly great QB class in 2018 all that different from trading up in a supposedly great QB class in 2004??? Except that your heroes McDermott and Beane spent a lot more to get Allen than Donahoe spent to get Losman? Of course, Donahoe wouldn't have traded up if Roethlisberger had been available when the Bills drafted in 2004. I doubt he'd have passed on Mahomes or Watson if he'd been GM in 2017 either. Whatever you say about Donahoe, he knew talent, especially offensive talent, as did Whaley, unlike the Bills current clown show leadership.

LOL. It comes down to how much embarrassment the Pegulas are willing to tolerate. If the blowouts to other bottom feeder teams like Indy continue, McDermott won't last the season.

With the Bills, that light at the end of the tunnel always is an on-coming freight train.

I have no specific scuttlebutt about it, but when McCarron was traded away, my first thought was he wasn't happy to be third QB behind Peterman and Allen. I think that McCarron signed so late in the FA period because he was looking for a situation with a shaky QB situation where he had a real chance to be starter -- much like when Fitzpatrick signed with the Bills back in 2009 because he figured that Trent Edwards was the most likely starter to get benched. IIRC, Taylor also signed with the Bills because the team offered his best chance to become a starter.

I know, which is what I'm questioning. How can he say that Allen is in the 3rd best situation when Ledyard himself rates the Bills receivers poorly. Moreover, Allen doesn't even have an experienced QB coach? David Culley is a former WR coach who hasn't coached QBs in like 30 years when he was a collegiate assistant at some small college. It's not like the Bills have a great pass blocking OL or a great running game, both of which are acknowledged to be of significant help to young QBs.

He thinks that Allen is in a better situation than Watson, Darnold, and Mayfield, all of whom have better protection, receivers and/or running games to support them? Seriously?

Juan Castillo and the new zone blocking scheme is what happened to Groy. He doesn't suit the scheme, so he's gone from being at least a serviceable backup to being a turnstile. Maybe McDermott and Beane should have given a slightly higher priority to OL in the last draft and spent more than a late fifth round pick on it.

It's useless to argue with McDermott/Beane cheerleaders. They apparently inhabit the same alternative universe their heroes do -- the one in which the forward pass is viewed as a necessary evil and WRs with speed and good hands are superfluous. ^^^ Watson was averaging over 300 yards a game passing before he was hurt. He's played the last two games with a partially collapsed lung, which means that he could hardly take a breath without pain. He's the real deal. As for Mahomes, I think he's played only about three more games than Allen, but the difference between what he does on the field and what Allen does is light years difference. Part of that difference is that Mahomes has had much, much better coaching and support than Allen, but the talent differential seems just amazing. Mahomes plays like a veteran. Allen plays like a green rookie with poor coaching and a poor team around him.

They wouldn't have been hired in the first place if the Pegulas thought that they would put a team on the field that would get blown out by 20 or more points with regularity ...

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.